Mt. Baldy via Big Horn Ridge?

Post by **Taco** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:43 am

Jeez, got enough info?

I'll do it if others go. 8) This'll be quite historical and stuff, being the old route and all.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:46 am

I am willing to give it a try, thanks for all of the info Jim, that is great!

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:35 am

Does this route make sence, I am trying to piece it all together.

Click to see full size image

Here is a higher resolution image:

http://www.class3hiking.com/bighornbig.jpg

Post by **HikeUp** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:22 am

Travis wrote:Does this route make sense, I am trying to piece it all together.

That looks like a pretty good likeness to me. Does your mapping software give you a mileage and an elevation profile too?

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:38 am

HikeUp wrote:
Travis wrote:Does this route make sense, I am trying to piece it all together.
That looks like a pretty good likeness to me. Does your mapping software give you a mileage and an elevation profile too?

I find these profiles are not always accurate, and this is actually backwards (have not been able to figure out how to reverse them). But it is clear that this is over 8000 ft and 12 miles one way. I would want to setup a car shuttle and descend via Manker Flats or even the chairlift.

Post by **HikeUp** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:49 am

Thanks Travis. The last 4 miles look brutal...~5300' in ~4 miles.

My guess is the actual mileage might be a bit longer due to unaccounted for zig-zagging required to go up the ridge.

I doubt I could make 8000', but I'd be willing to be a water pack mule up to about 5000'

!

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:50 pm

I am up to an adventure more than anyone, but looking at that route from Widman Ranch (via Heaton Flats) to the Bighorn Ridge, I see some very serious bushwhacking. I think it has already been discussed, but the route from Cow Canyon, down Coldwater Canyon Truck Trail, into Cattle Canyon, follow the canyon up and climb up onto Bighorn Ridge seems more realistic. You can print out the permission slip from the HPS website to go on Baldy Ranch Property (http://angeles.sierraclub.org/hps/guide ... ssion.jpeg). Here is the Google Earth KMZ file with this alternative route. Check it out, it doesn't look to bad getting up on Bighorn Ridge. And once on the ridge it looks OK. Not to mention that the car shuttle will be much easier.

http://www.class3hiking.com/bighornviacattlecanyon.kmz

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:04 pm

Travis wrote:Does this route make sence, I am trying to piece it all together.

Good trace of the old trail. I was mentioning the trail more out of historical interest. I think it would be so overgrown as to be useless now.

As an actual for real route in the here and now, here's the route I had in mind: Take the Heaton Flat trail to the hill just before Heaton saddle at UTM 11 433580E 3790711N . Drop down from the Heaton Flat Trail into Coldwater Canyon via the trace trail along the ridge above Weber Camp UTM 11 434290E 3790667N. Note that this entry point puts you below Widman Ranch but above the private holdings at the mouth of Coldwater Canyon. Cross Coldwater Canyon and ascend the ridge immediately north of Fossil Canyon, starting at UTM 11 434210E 3790845N and hitting BHR at point 6388 (UTM 11 436441E 3791181N). Proceed up BHR, joining the Bear Flats/Baldy Trail at UTM 11 439482E 3793275N. Complete the ascent of Baldy via the trail.

Not saying that this would be a better approach than via Cattle Canyon; just clarifying the route I'm talking about. I make it at about 10 miles each way or 20 miles RT. About 8 of those RT miles would be on the Heaton Flat Trail. I'm thinking the route up BHR from vic UTM 11 434210E 3790845N to the summit of Baldy is less than 6 miles. No fancy software; just Jim's topo based estimate.

One add'l note: Getting started on the ridge north of Fossil Canyon might be more climbing/scrambling than hiking. The two topo lines closest to Coldwater Canyon are really close together.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:29 pm

Ah, I understand your route now, it definetly looks better than that historic trail, following the ridges eliminates a lot of the bush. I traced what I think is your route on Google Earth, check it out. I think either route in blue would be worth a shot.

I also added your route to my Google Earth KMZ file,
http://www.class3hiking.com/bighornwith3routes.kmz

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:17 pm

Travis wrote:Ah, I understand your route now, it definetly looks better than that historic trail, following the ridges eliminates a lot of the bush. I traced what I think is your route on Google Earth, check it out. I think either route in blue would be worth a shot.

Yes, that's it exactly. It's kind of a good line, doesn't cross a lot of private property, and is much shorter. One doesn't have to swing way north to get above Widman Ranch and then way south to hit the saddle at point 4652. It is, however, a fairly brutal climb up that ridge to BHR's crest and then up BHR to the summit. The other bad news is that you're dropping about 1000' from the Heaton Flats Trail to the Weber Camp area. You're going from 2000' at the TH to 4600' on the Heaton Flats Trail, descending to 3600' near Weber Camp, and then climbing to 10000' on top of Mt. Baldy. Um, I think that comes out to about 9000' of elevation over 10 miles. This route actually might rival the Skyline route in the Mt. San Jacinto area in terms of difficulty. This would probably be about as difficult as doing Baldy via Big Iron and San Antonio Ridge.

Post by **Taco** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:22 am

Talk about getting stuff done! Jeebus, we are ready!

I'll bring the beer.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:42 am

We still have to chose from the final 2 routes. Jim's routes via Heaton Flats or my proposal via Cow Canyon Saddle.

I compared the 2 routes on my website.

http://www.gpsmountaineering.com/mountb ... ghornridge

Via Cow Canyon looks to be the easier choice with significantly less elevation gain and less bushwhacking potential. But Heaton Flats is more of an Epic. It is also much easier to set up a car shuttle via Cow Canyon and descend via a shorter route.

I would be up to trying this route in November. Maybe even Thanksgiving Weekend?

ps - I came down with a stomach flu Friday and have been bedridden all weekend, that is why I have been able to spend the time on this project.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:05 am

Thanks for posting all this info, Travis.

The Cattle Canyon Route is attractive -- particularly because of the ease of a shuttle, that and the fact that there have been a lot of problems with vandalism and theft at the E Fork TH.

But dang that climb out of Cattle Canyon would be steep.

Post by **Taco** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:47 am

I'd prefer the Cattle-Cow canyon approach personally.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:00 am

Jim is right, that the getting out of cattle canyon onto Bighorn Ridge will be steep, but I think we can handle it. We agree on the route, just need to talk Becht and Augie to join us and select the date. Maybe Nov.11 or 18th?

Travis

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:56 am

I have to admit, Tom's photos make me feel the need to rethink this hike, but I think our route to the west will be better.

http://flickr.com/send?nsid=9179545@N02 ... 0510979485

what do you think?

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:18 am

Travis wrote:I have to admit, Tom's photos make me feel the need to rethink this hike, but I think our route to the west will be better.

Pics make it look very steep getting out of Cattle Canyon up the east side of the ridge. The east side looks less brushy though than the west side of the ridge. West side looks like an epic bushwhack, unless enough old trail can be found. Tough call.

Post by **Taco** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:10 am

If we can't come up with a decision by the day, we'll just wing it. I find I have more fun and learn more when I do that. Tons of planning and what-ifs and all that sometimes makes things too boring. Turns it from an adventure, into a tame walk.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:16 am

TacoDelRio wrote:If we can't come up with a decision by the day, we'll just wing it. I find I have more fun and learn more when I do that. Tons of planning and what-ifs and all that sometimes makes things too boring. Turns it from an adventure, into a tame walk.

Well said, I agree, maybe worst case we can contiue up Cattle Canyon straight up to Baldy

Or at least as far as we can, scope it out for a snow climb??

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:20 am

A little more text to accompany Tom's photos would be helpful, but yes it looks a) pretty gnarly climbing out of Cattle Canyon and b) like a generally nasty bushwhack from the west.

Question: What is the trail shown in IMG_2302 and IMG_2301? If that's the old trail, then it's in surprisingly good shape.

Post by **Taco** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:49 pm

Travis wrote:
TacoDelRio wrote:If we can't come up with a decision by the day, we'll just wing it. I find I have more fun and learn more when I do that. Tons of planning and what-ifs and all that sometimes makes things too boring. Turns it from an adventure, into a tame walk.
Well said, I agree, maybe worst case we can contiue up Cattle Canyon straight up to Baldy Or at least as far as we can, scope it out for a snow climb??

That's my idea, for a few photos just as far as we need to go. It'll probably suck bigtime though.

Bighorn looks like a SoCal expedition climb in a heavy winter!

A dangerous climb up through the Cow Canyon RV Park Icefall!

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:59 pm

Yeah, does sound like a recon or two is in order.

I'm getting hitched in April, so I'm kind of crunched for training and hiking time right now, but if I get a chance, I may reconnoiter the Heaton Flats trail and see if the trail from the Heaton Flats to Weber Camp is worth anything, scope out the location of any private holdings in the area, and take a look at that ridge along the north side of Fossil Canyon.

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:28 pm

Hikin_Jim wrote:...but if I get a chance, I may reconnoiter the Heaton Flats trail and see if the trail from the Heaton Flats to Weber Camp is worth anything, scope out the location of any private holdings in the area, and take a look at that ridge along the north side of Fossil Canyon.

I've never been to that area so I'd be willing to assist in the recon, while getting a bit familiar with the area at the same time.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:53 pm

Very cool. Just so you know, I've got two invites for November for hiking. Want to get to Heaton in Nov; not sure I will have the opportunity.

Do you ever have any days off mid-week?

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:04 pm

I've been looking for an excuse to take a weekday off! Assuming the ANF opens relatively soon, I'd be willing to consider it. I'll keep an eye on this thread for the latest.

Augie · Post by **Augie** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:14 am

I'm certainly interested in trying this adventure with you guys. We'll all just have to get the right date.

Post by **Taco** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:03 am

I should be good to go, and I'm looking forward to this route!

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:42 pm

I AM REALLY ITCHING TO GET OUT INTO THE MOUNTAINS. I WOULD BE WILLING TO TAKE THIS HIKE ON THE FIRST SUNDAY AFTER THE MOUNTAINS ARE OPEN AGAIN. SO FAR AUGIE AND TACO HAVE CONFIRMED..... Nov. 11th or Nov. 18th.

Post by **Taco** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:05 am

Post by **HikeUp** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:10 pm

ANF will be open this upcoming weekend!

Any planned assaults on Big Horn Ridge this Sunday (11th)? Which approach route? I might be able to tag along for part of the way.