Mt. Baldy via Big Horn Ridge?
Interesting idea. From the summit down to about 4600' doesn't look too bad in terms of nav although definitely steep. Below 4600' it looks like a real tough nav problem. The real question in my mind is how do you gain the ridge to start your ascent? The area around the confluence of Cattle and Coldwater canyons to the 4600' level looks like a really gnarly nav problem.
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG
I guess you could gain the ridge via Blind Canyon from Coldwater Canyon or maybe one of the ridges. The ridge just north of Fossil Canyon would be a doable route to point 6388 on Big Horn Ridge; this may be the best option.
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG
I guess you could gain the ridge via Blind Canyon from Coldwater Canyon or maybe one of the ridges. The ridge just north of Fossil Canyon would be a doable route to point 6388 on Big Horn Ridge; this may be the best option.
Looking at the ridge on google earth, it also looks like there might be some access to the ridge from a little ways up Cattle Canyon above the confluence with Cow Canyon. Looks like there might be some serious access issues with all of the private holdings in the area.
I vaguely remember Taco mentioning this ridge, but i could be wrong.
I vaguely remember Taco mentioning this ridge, but i could be wrong.
I did mention this, and gave it a shot one morning. Ended up with nothing more than an 8 mile walk in Cow Canyon.
The entrance from Heaton Flats is closed, because of the ranch. YOu would probably have to enter from the RV camp at Cow Canyon Saddle, but I believe the private property still straddles the beginning of Bighorn Ridge.
http://www.summitpost.org/image/341431/ ... ssing.html
The scrub oak and other chaparral low on the ridge (below the cow line, prob. 5,000ft) would be a royal PITA to get through. I don't know what everyone's ethics are regarding chopping a path through with a machete (or a flamethrower, heh), but it is entirely possible, obviously.
Hell, I'll give it a shot if anyone can get onto the lower ridge legally. Figure with the bushwhacking, 2 long days, maybe drive home on the 3rd to avoid driving off the road.
I believe Tom Becht may have some info on this... unless I'm thinking of someone else who took photos from the Bear Flat route up to W Baldy...
The entrance from Heaton Flats is closed, because of the ranch. YOu would probably have to enter from the RV camp at Cow Canyon Saddle, but I believe the private property still straddles the beginning of Bighorn Ridge.
http://www.summitpost.org/image/341431/ ... ssing.html
The scrub oak and other chaparral low on the ridge (below the cow line, prob. 5,000ft) would be a royal PITA to get through. I don't know what everyone's ethics are regarding chopping a path through with a machete (or a flamethrower, heh), but it is entirely possible, obviously.
Hell, I'll give it a shot if anyone can get onto the lower ridge legally. Figure with the bushwhacking, 2 long days, maybe drive home on the 3rd to avoid driving off the road.
I believe Tom Becht may have some info on this... unless I'm thinking of someone else who took photos from the Bear Flat route up to W Baldy...
Thanks for the info!
What information exists on this old route? Did there used to be an actual trail, or was it just a XC route?
...from summitpost entry on cattle/cow canyon.TacoDelRio wrote:This canyon allows access to an old and tough route up to the summit of Mount San Antonio, known as Bighorn Ridge.
What information exists on this old route? Did there used to be an actual trail, or was it just a XC route?
I looked in my old 1984 copy of Robinson's Trails of the Angeles this morning. I thought I had remembered reading about an old route using Big Horn Ridge, and sure enough I was right (it was bound to happen sooner or later). 
There was a route that went from the old Weber Camp trail resort http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG up to BH ridge and from there to the summit.
It's a shame that access through the ranch is now restricted. I've been through that ranch area twice. It's a nice area, and I saw a herd of big horn sheep one of the times. You could write to them and specifically ask for permission. I know that sometimes when approached properly in advance some people will grant exceptions. Just being willing to list the full names of the parties involved and their contact information may be enough to reassure them.
Another option is to take the Heaton Flat trail to the floor of Coldwater Canyon above the ranch and then continue up the canyon. The ridge at about UTM 11 435732E 3791976N (NAD27) might be a doable option although it looks pretty gnarly and who knows what the bushwhacking would be like.
If you could get permission to pass through the ranch or you approached from downstream, the ridge at UTM 11 434919E 3790997N (NAD27) looks like a better option, gaining the ridge near point 6388. Interestingly, this ridge is near Weber Camp, where the old trail took off from. Of the options I've mulled over (there of course may be others), this ridge looks like the best candidate. See http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG
There was a route that went from the old Weber Camp trail resort http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG up to BH ridge and from there to the summit.
It's a shame that access through the ranch is now restricted. I've been through that ranch area twice. It's a nice area, and I saw a herd of big horn sheep one of the times. You could write to them and specifically ask for permission. I know that sometimes when approached properly in advance some people will grant exceptions. Just being willing to list the full names of the parties involved and their contact information may be enough to reassure them.
Another option is to take the Heaton Flat trail to the floor of Coldwater Canyon above the ranch and then continue up the canyon. The ridge at about UTM 11 435732E 3791976N (NAD27) might be a doable option although it looks pretty gnarly and who knows what the bushwhacking would be like.
If you could get permission to pass through the ranch or you approached from downstream, the ridge at UTM 11 434919E 3790997N (NAD27) looks like a better option, gaining the ridge near point 6388. Interestingly, this ridge is near Weber Camp, where the old trail took off from. Of the options I've mulled over (there of course may be others), this ridge looks like the best candidate. See http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG
HJ, excellent information. Thanks.
Definitely looks like the ridge that starts near Weber Camp is the logical choice. Looks like Weber Camp is at ~3600', a nice healthy gain of 6400' to Baldy. Hmm...I'll definitely wait for some one to restore the old trail before I even think about heading that way.
It would be interesting to know more of the history behind the old trail.
Definitely looks like the ridge that starts near Weber Camp is the logical choice. Looks like Weber Camp is at ~3600', a nice healthy gain of 6400' to Baldy. Hmm...I'll definitely wait for some one to restore the old trail before I even think about heading that way.
It would be interesting to know more of the history behind the old trail.
I'll try to grab my dad's old copy of The San Gabriels by Robinson and give it a look.HikeUp wrote:It would be interesting to know more of the history behind the old trail.
The info I did find was in the appendix of 1984 version of Trails of the Angeles, also by Robinson, under "Trails That Used to Be" (or something close to that). It didn't say a whole lot more than what I wrote, but other versions may have add'l info.
Hopefully Jim answered the question. I know very little about the route. I was told by a buddy that it used to be the most-travelled way up, back in the late 1800's and early 1900's. I've taken a bunch of pictures from GRR (Glendora Ridge Road) looking at the ridge, and you can almost see a trail in some spots. It just looks like you'd be in Amazonian plant growth the whole way. A bloody trip for sure.
Unfortunately, I have no more information than anyone else. First thought about doing it after Augie Medina mentioned it on one of our hikes (Bob Burd was with us and thought it was a crazy idea). I figured out that Augie is a true masochist after he climbed Iron #1 via it's north ridge. Figured out that I can beat myself up plenty in the Sierra without all of that nasty brush.
I've come to the same conclusions as Hiker Jim after taking pictures from the heli-pad on the Heaton Ridge trail, Lookout mtn, and along the Baldy Village trail. I posted some of these for TacoDelRio to look at when he expressed interest. A brutal but possible hike probably involves a car shuttle, taking the trail down from Allison Saddle, and fighting brush up to the ridge top. The rest is just grunt work.
I've come to the same conclusions as Hiker Jim after taking pictures from the heli-pad on the Heaton Ridge trail, Lookout mtn, and along the Baldy Village trail. I posted some of these for TacoDelRio to look at when he expressed interest. A brutal but possible hike probably involves a car shuttle, taking the trail down from Allison Saddle, and fighting brush up to the ridge top. The rest is just grunt work.
Speaking of Big Horn Ridge ...
I'm a former Army officer, and I have some old AMS (Army Map Service) and DMA (Defense Mapping Agency) maps that I got while still in the service. These are slightly different than the standard 1:24K 7.5' series topos available from the USGS. The one I'm looking at is a 1:50K 15' series.
I'm looking at Big Horn Ridge, and guess what ... there's a trail marked. I'm sure the trail is essentially no longer there (although perhaps traces can be found), but the old map kind of gives an idea of where the trail was.
The trail up BHR starts where the Heaton Flat Trail drops into the canyon. This makes sense if you think about it since the Heaton Flat Trail was the primary access to the canyon back in the day. Anyway, from where the Heaton Flat Trail drops into the canyon, the BHR trail basically switch backs South a bit, curls around a side canyon and climbs BHR.
The last time I was at the Allison Mine, I was able to find this http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG trail junction. I could see the trail taking off through the brush to the Stanley-Miller Mine -- a non-stop bush whack from the look of it. I actually aborted my intended trip to the Stanley-Miller Mine just because of the severity of the brush. (I finally did get to the Stanley-Miller Mine by scaling straight up the side of the mountain further up the E Fork of the SG River, a very hard hike, but that's another story).
One interesting item of note is that the old BHR trail takes off from above the Widman Ranch and is therefore (legally) accessible (no comment on brush). I wonder how much of the old BHR trail still exists?
I'm a former Army officer, and I have some old AMS (Army Map Service) and DMA (Defense Mapping Agency) maps that I got while still in the service. These are slightly different than the standard 1:24K 7.5' series topos available from the USGS. The one I'm looking at is a 1:50K 15' series.
I'm looking at Big Horn Ridge, and guess what ... there's a trail marked. I'm sure the trail is essentially no longer there (although perhaps traces can be found), but the old map kind of gives an idea of where the trail was.
The trail up BHR starts where the Heaton Flat Trail drops into the canyon. This makes sense if you think about it since the Heaton Flat Trail was the primary access to the canyon back in the day. Anyway, from where the Heaton Flat Trail drops into the canyon, the BHR trail basically switch backs South a bit, curls around a side canyon and climbs BHR.
The last time I was at the Allison Mine, I was able to find this http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG trail junction. I could see the trail taking off through the brush to the Stanley-Miller Mine -- a non-stop bush whack from the look of it. I actually aborted my intended trip to the Stanley-Miller Mine just because of the severity of the brush. (I finally did get to the Stanley-Miller Mine by scaling straight up the side of the mountain further up the E Fork of the SG River, a very hard hike, but that's another story).
One interesting item of note is that the old BHR trail takes off from above the Widman Ranch and is therefore (legally) accessible (no comment on brush). I wonder how much of the old BHR trail still exists?
Yeah, definitely a pain.
You'd hike in just as though you were going for Big Iron or the Allison Mine but turn off at the saddle where you'd have to choose Allison or Iron and head into Coldwater. I've heard this saddle referred to as Iron Mtn Saddle. It's about 4 miles to the saddle from the TH, so, yeah, kind of a pain, but it does appear to avoid private property.
You'd hike in just as though you were going for Big Iron or the Allison Mine but turn off at the saddle where you'd have to choose Allison or Iron and head into Coldwater. I've heard this saddle referred to as Iron Mtn Saddle. It's about 4 miles to the saddle from the TH, so, yeah, kind of a pain, but it does appear to avoid private property.
TacoDelRio wrote:Heaton Saddle at 4,582ft?
Oh, duh, yes, that one, Heaton Saddle. That is the official name, isn't it? Thanks.8)
It would be cool if we could organise an assault, of sorts, on that ridge.
On Google Erf, the ridgeline itself looks easy going as far as brush from about 6,000ft up. The ridgeline ascending from Widman Ranch looks easy. I can clearly see a trail, a good looking one from what can be seen, coming from Heaton Saddle down to the ranch.
This would be a ton of fun. Early winter would be nice.
It would be cool if we could organise an assault, of sorts, on that ridge.
On Google Erf, the ridgeline itself looks easy going as far as brush from about 6,000ft up. The ridgeline ascending from Widman Ranch looks easy. I can clearly see a trail, a good looking one from what can be seen, coming from Heaton Saddle down to the ranch.
This would be a ton of fun. Early winter would be nice.
My mind does keep going there.
I've been down from Heaton Saddle to Coldwater on that trail a couple of times. It's actually the remains of an old road. It's been in good shape the times I've used it. They reworked it some about 10 (?) years ago making a nice loop available via Coldwater, but the landowners complained, so it's been let go again. I wish the FS would stand up more for access. Legally, a public right of way exists. The FS has wimped on this issue way more than once closing off access to good areas. Personal pet peeve in case you hadn't noticed by now.TacoDelRio wrote:On Google Erf, the ridgeline itself looks easy going as far as brush from about 6,000ft up. The ridgeline ascending from Widman Ranch looks easy. I can clearly see a trail, a good looking one from what can be seen, coming from Heaton Saddle down to the ranch.
Definitely early winter -- before the rain but after the heat.TacoDelRio wrote:This would be a ton of fun. Early winter would be nice.
I'm going to try to plot that trail to the top of BHR using UTM. It's probably nearly worthless now as a trail given that it's been years since anyone has "brushed" it, but I'm always curious about such things. Maybe my loppers and I need to scout it up to the ridge line.
Regarding an assault on Baldy itself, this would probably be the first assault in quite some time on what used to be the primary route. Practically a "first ascent."
I noticed on the topozone maps that there is a trail from Coldwater Canyon up to Eagle Mine and then on up to the San Antonio Ridge (about half way between Iron and Baldy). That also looks very very interesting. Any info on whether that trail is real or not?
I personally wouldn't want to cliff out and have to hike/bushwhack back up. Not sure that would be too big of a worry on this ridge though. Hmm...maybe send out 2 parties and meet halfway!AW wrote:Why not just descend the ridge first? That way you know exactly what your challenge is...or is that considered cheating for this idea?
Define "real." There really was a trail there at one time, enough of which was intact that the USGS listed it back in the post WWII era when most of the "current" survey work was done -- although keep in mind that the USGS has historically had a particular interest in mining.HikeUp wrote:I noticed on the topozone maps that there is a trail from Coldwater Canyon up to Eagle Mine and then on up to the San Antonio Ridge (about half way between Iron and Baldy). That also looks very very interesting. Any info on whether that trail is real or not?
Can you find a trail now? Probably not. You may see patches of it, but it won't be easy to follow. Most of those old trails are so obliterated that getting to the sites on the map are more XC bushwhacks than hikes on trail.
I've been to the Allison Mine a couple of times. The Allison is comparatively popular to visit because a) it's closer to a road than some of the other mines in that area, and b) because John Robinson lists it in his popular Trails of the Angeles, but even with that popularity, the Allison Mine is no slouch to get to. There's a huge amount of brush, one easily loses the trail, and I hope you like getting stabbed by yucca because that's how that trail plays out.
So if the popular, close mine's trail is a difficult to find/follow bushwhack, consider these more remote mines a major expedition (except for the Baldora which is actually about as easy as the Allison). I've been to the Allison, Baldora (marked as Widco on the map), and Stanley-Miller mines but have never tried the Eagle or the Gold Dollar due to their inaccessibility. They're way up on the side of Iron Mtn. If you think Big Iron is a tough hike, try doing a hike on the flanks of Big Iron with no ridge to follow in thick brush to a destination you may or may not be able to find. Like I say, I never even tried to find the Eagle or Gold Dollar.
I'm thinking you're right -- once on the ridge, things should ease up in terms of brush. It's just getting on that ridge that is the trick. Um, chaps, anyone?TacoDelRio wrote:My machete hasn't been used in a few years. I think that the "trail" errr route, should suck only up until we hit the ridge proper. From the air, it looks similar to Copter Ridge, which was nice.
Maybe we could convince CDF that a hand crew needs to cut a break along the ridge above Fossil Canyon "just in case."
(Actually, maybe I shouldn't joke about stuff like that right now, but a CDF type hand crew would be perfect for something like this.)Just for fun, I hand calculated a few UTM's for points along the old trail from Coldwater Canyon to the crest of BHR.
The old trail runs from just above the U turn in the dirt road marked on the USGS 1:24K topo (MOUNT SAN ANTONIO Quad) map above the Widman Ranch (where the Heaton Flat Trail comes into Coldwater Canyon in other words) to the small saddle on BHR above Blind Canyon which is marked as point 4652. The trail pretty much contours very gradually SSE (more or less) from Coldwater Canyon to the top of BHR. I'm going to give 8 digit UTM's since that's about all that's reasonable with a hand calculation. For example, my hand calculated 8 digit UTM for where the trail hits BHR near point 4652 is about 3535 9005; for comparative purposes, the full UTM for that point would be 11 435350E 3790050N (NAD27). (Actually the zone is "11S," but topozone.com just lists it as "11.")
So here goes with my "trace" (such as it is):
The trail to BHR leaves Coldwater Canyon at 3517 9165.
Trail then contours along to 3478 9125.
Trail then switchbacks into a bowl shaped side canyon. The back of the bowl is at 3510 9135.
Trail then heads to ridge above Fossil Canyon, cresting at 3490 9100.
Trail then crosses creek in Fossil Canyon at 3545 9080.
Trail then crosses ridge above Blind Canyon at 3541 9020.
Trail crosses creek in Blind Canyon at 3541 9020.
Trail then hits top of BHR at 3535 9005 (near saddle, point 4652).
It surprises me in a way that the trail is so gradual in its ascent of BHR. Mining trails of that day were pretty "stick to business" although this trail may have been constructed for the guests at the Weber Camp Trail Resort back in the "Great Hiking Era" (the teen years of the 20th century). A more gradual trail would make sense for such as would stay at a trail resort.
Speaking of Weber Camp, take a closer look at the topozone map http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG. Notice that there is a purple photo revised trail from the Heaton Flat Trail running down the ridge above Weber Camp. The trail hits Coldwater Canyon just above Weber Camp -- right near the ridge above Fossil Canyon that we've identified as a possible route to the crest of BHR. There you have it, a route bypassing all the private property (assuming it's still navigable).
When one of you animals (I'm pretty slow these days) does this as a day hike, I expect an "honorable mention" in the summit register.
The old trail runs from just above the U turn in the dirt road marked on the USGS 1:24K topo (MOUNT SAN ANTONIO Quad) map above the Widman Ranch (where the Heaton Flat Trail comes into Coldwater Canyon in other words) to the small saddle on BHR above Blind Canyon which is marked as point 4652. The trail pretty much contours very gradually SSE (more or less) from Coldwater Canyon to the top of BHR. I'm going to give 8 digit UTM's since that's about all that's reasonable with a hand calculation. For example, my hand calculated 8 digit UTM for where the trail hits BHR near point 4652 is about 3535 9005; for comparative purposes, the full UTM for that point would be 11 435350E 3790050N (NAD27). (Actually the zone is "11S," but topozone.com just lists it as "11.")
So here goes with my "trace" (such as it is):
The trail to BHR leaves Coldwater Canyon at 3517 9165.
Trail then contours along to 3478 9125.
Trail then switchbacks into a bowl shaped side canyon. The back of the bowl is at 3510 9135.
Trail then heads to ridge above Fossil Canyon, cresting at 3490 9100.
Trail then crosses creek in Fossil Canyon at 3545 9080.
Trail then crosses ridge above Blind Canyon at 3541 9020.
Trail crosses creek in Blind Canyon at 3541 9020.
Trail then hits top of BHR at 3535 9005 (near saddle, point 4652).
It surprises me in a way that the trail is so gradual in its ascent of BHR. Mining trails of that day were pretty "stick to business" although this trail may have been constructed for the guests at the Weber Camp Trail Resort back in the "Great Hiking Era" (the teen years of the 20th century). A more gradual trail would make sense for such as would stay at a trail resort.
Speaking of Weber Camp, take a closer look at the topozone map http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... &layer=DRG. Notice that there is a purple photo revised trail from the Heaton Flat Trail running down the ridge above Weber Camp. The trail hits Coldwater Canyon just above Weber Camp -- right near the ridge above Fossil Canyon that we've identified as a possible route to the crest of BHR. There you have it, a route bypassing all the private property (assuming it's still navigable).
When one of you animals (I'm pretty slow these days) does this as a day hike, I expect an "honorable mention" in the summit register.