Iron Mountain via Heaton Flats Trail

[FIGHT ON]

but you have to step on the ground under the gate at the parking lot every other step to make it official.

[Taco]

I am tall, and have a very long stride.

This is true.

8)

[FIGHT ON]

still think Rick Kent could wup ya.

[Taco]

That's fantastic.

Anywho

[AlanK]

But ya it would be interesting to know what the fastest time is. Not only for Iron but for every hike.

There are all sorts of controversies about claimed fastest ascents of various peaks, etc. If people care about records, other people will cheat in order to claim them. Since hiking is not a competitive sport (for most people), I have no problem with leaving the record business alone for the most part. On the other hand, there are ways to verify times to varying degrees of confidence. If one wants to set a record, it is worth thinking about that.

As for Rick Kent, I know of no faster time on Iron Mountain and I have confidence in his posts because he has built up a lot of credibility. But I doubt that he thinks of his ascent as a record.

Shortcuts are another subject altogether. If one is keeping records, one needs to specify the course.

[FIGHT ON]

I suppose there will always be cheaters.

I look for the truth.



As far as shortcuts go, I sense there is at least one on Skyline. Are you aware of any?
The reason I say that is because I went two times last year and on my first trip I hooked up with a group of people who kept putting trees and rocks on forks in the trail. There were about four times this happened on the trail. They knew the trail well and quickly made it clear which way was the main trail. During that hike a runner passed us by and I saw him leave the main trail and disappear. Maybe you know him? Some short guy wearing shorts and does the trail often. I know he does it often because a few weeks later I did that trail again by myself and ran into him again. I talked with him as we went along for a few minutes, he stopped running and I walked as fast as I could to keep with him, but then he left the trail again. I followed him off the trail for about 20 yards and he stopped and turned around. He acted surprised and pointed back and said " Main trail, main trail". So I went back to the main trail. Never saw him again. But he did say he does that trail regularly and told me his time and some record he was trying to beat. My point is that on hikes like Skyline and Iron Mountain you have a starting point and an ending point. Is it your perception that most hikers on these boards stay on the "Main Trail" or take shortcuts. My guess is that they would "Respect" the wilderness and avoid cutting switchbacks. I know you can't speak for all on these boards but you have been around enough to know what the majority thinks. Has there been a post about that? Like anyone would admit to taking short cuts. Whatever.

[AlanK]

Shorts are not cheating unless one is claiming to have covered one route and did another one to save time. Since most people pay no attention to reords and comparing times, they are not an issue -- at least not for that reason.

In many cases, shortcuts are ill-advised because they lead to erosion and other unnecessarily heavy impact on the local environment. In other cases they are harmless. In the case of Skyline, the heavy use it is seeing lately is leading to problems. In the Heaton case you mention, I think that people should stick to the established trail beyond Heaton saddle.

[FIGHT ON]

Then why does almost every post up at iron have the assent time and numbered assent (5x). Seems most pay big attention to records. Maybe it is just that hike. That would make sense because its a very hard. Next time you are up there look at the posts.

[JMunaretto]

Fight On,

I remember the point past the first saddle where the trail splits, and I remember on the way back seeing where they join up again. I don't think there is much difference in distance in that 1/4 mile by choosing one over the other.

In terms of speed, I think a 2:40 time is definitely possible, although it might involve extremely fast walking or slow jogging up the first 4 miles. With my girlfriend we finished up at 3:30. Based on my rests I'm thinking going up solo I'd make it up at 3 flat. 20 minutes off that is a huge difference, but while I'm in great cardio shape I probably don't have a endurance athlete's body so if someone is pretty lean and in great shape I could see that happening.

In terms of eating, I don't eat much before any exercise. It is generally good to eat about 200 cal/hr before you start exercise, so you could eat 400 cal 2 hrs before you start, for example. If you eat more, you will have too much food in your stomach that will reduce blood flow (w/ oxygen) to your muscles, and it will slow you down. If you don't eat anything, you are likely to get low blood sugar and feel lightheaded.

I don't know about his hydration. If someone is going up that quickly, obviously there is a lot of heat given off and perspiration, I would assume a need for water is high. But as long as you have enough for the tough uphill, being dehydrated going downhill sucks but won't affect your performance.

[AlanK]

Then why does almost every post up at iron have the assent time and numbered assent (5x). Seems most pay big attention to records. Maybe it is just that hike. That would make sense because its a very hard. Next time you are up there look at the posts.

I have looked at the log. I have even made entries like that. I think it's because it is a hard hike and people who do it multiple times like to measure themselves against it. Until recently, I could find four years' worth of my entries in a single notebook because so few people went up there. If I wanted to know how I did this year compared ot last, i just looked for my last entry.

I can hardly remember anyone else's times because, in the end, they don't matter (to me). I am not saying no one gets a kick, or should get a kick, out of doing something noteworthy. But I think we all know that those times are just the jottings of people who chose to leave an entry, not actual records.

[FIGHT ON]

JM. The last two times I went down I noticed it. I think the lower end of it joins the main trail past the saddle on the way up. I might be wrong but it seems like it would eliminate all those long switchbacks. I will not take it but will try to make some sense out of it next time I go. Every time I am going down, I can see where that saddle is and think the trail is going to follow the same type of ridge direction, but then it turns east. And every time I say to my self, "damn, I don't remember going way over here, I'm gong the wrong way, I missed the main trail, now I have to walk all the way back, this thing better switch back pretty soon or I'm going to end up down that other canyon somewhere." and then it goes back west. My guess is that it cuts all those switch backs out. Got to be more than one quarter mile. Hey and don't be takin any of those caffeine/drug products when you solo. That would spoil everything.

[KathyW]

JMunaretto - Thanks for your post on 3/14/08 - sounds like I can wear trailrunners if I head up Iron next weekend.

Kathy

[JMunaretto]

Fight On, maybe you are right. I'm not sure if I took the easy or hard way, but I do remember on the way up when the trail splits, I took the left branch. On the way back, I took the right.

Kathy, no matter what you are wearing you are going to slip a bit coming down, its just so steep and the sediment is so loose in some parts in the final 3 miles. Be sure to cover up as I think its impossible to every single yucca!

[Rick Kent]

3 Brazil Nuts? That would last me a week! Actually it was 3 sunflower seeds ... and I only sucked the salt off and spit the seeds out. Ha!

Ok, seriously though, I think last time I carbed up and drank water right before the hike to reduce what I had to carry. Water consumption depends a lot on the temperature so if it's cool I know I don't need as much.

I wasn't aware that there were any shortcuts on Iron Mtn. What switchbacks there are don't bother me too much -- definitely not like the Whitney trail anyway. Fortunately Iron is more direct and steep which I prefer. On my 2:37 time I did try to run whatever I could but on the way up that wasn't much. On the way down I ran some off and on whenever I could. Sometimes it just seems easier to run. I'm not the best trail runner but I'm getting better.

[AlanK]

3 Brazil Nuts? That would last me a week! Actually it was 3 sunflower seeds ... and I only sucked the salt off and spit the seeds out. Ha!

Thanks for the clarification. They were making you sound like a glutton!

[FIGHT ON]

AlanK, About Rick Kent. Let's say he entered the Mt. Wilson Race. I believe he would not win it because it is not that steep or rugged. But if you take the same participants and placed them on other trails and add more elevation gain per mile, distance, difficulty etc. he would eventually be up front. Keep in mind I am kinda new to the hiking scene.
Are there others similar to him that you know? or is he so different. I guess I want your analysis on him.

[AlanK]

I have hiked with Rick a couple of times, but neither of us was pushing too hard. I have seen some of his trip reports, and they are very impressive. I have not seen him run and have no basis for speculating about how he would do at various things. He is a fit athlete and a high performance machine -- that much I'd make book on.

[Rick Kent]

FIGHT: I think you're right. In a typical race I don't think I'd win. I'm not quite geared for that. I think the only time I can gain an advantage is in steep terrain where my smaller form and light weight come into play. I don't seem to have been born with any special hiker genes like others so I have to resort to brute force and persistence. I haven't done any marathons. I'm quite sure that Alan could easily beat me in that category. In fact if we were the same age he would probably beat me up Iron mountain too. I just hope I'm as strong as he is after I gain a few more years. He could probably still beat my 2:37 time right now on Iron Mtn if he really gave it a try.

Two of the most hardcore dayhikers around are Bob Burd and Matthew Holliman. These two are the strongest dayhikers I've ever met. I've had the privilege of hiking with them on many occaissions (usually struggling to keep up). They will be the first two individuals to dayhike all peaks on the Sierra Peaks List (SPS). I think Matthew only has between 10 and 20 peaks left. If you want to see the best dayhikers around check into the Sierra Challenge (a new thread just started on Summitpost). Rick Graham also comes to mind. He's done some impressive hikes/climbs as well (I have yet to match his dayhike of Williamson and Tyndall). Many others have accomplished impressive feats as well.

-Rick

[AlanK]

Rick -- I think you'd speed right up if you cut down on those sunflower seeds on hikes.

[FIGHT ON]

AlanK is funny,
Rick, Ya, I think the tougher and longer the trail gets, the less people would be in front of you. But, I can't believe there are others like you. Let alone people who you struggle to keep up with??? Who are these people?? From another planet. I guess no matter who you are there will always be "someone else". I will check out those other guys and hikes. People who do amazing things really interest me. But even more so when I am involved in that thing. I remember when I used to play chess. I really focused on it and started to play a lot. I thought I was getting good after playing in the local parks for a while. I came to realize that the more I learned, the less I knew. And when I learned about the REAL chess players, I got the same feeling that I got when I saw the hikes you had done. Imagine thinking you are pretty good at chess and finding out that not only are there people who could beat you, but could beat you BLINDFOLDED! And get this, there are people who could beat 30 of those people in a simultaneous exhibition, BLINDFOLDED. That is AMAZING and so are those hikes you have done. Fun to check out.

[Hikin_Jim]

...He could be a robot ya know.

That would explain a lot about Rick K.

I hear his middle name is "dromedary."

[FIGHT ON]

On January 12 08 I went to Heaton Flats for my first try at Iron Mt. Nobody was on that trail. I know that because It had been raining/snowing the previous weeks and there were no footprints on the trail in either direction. I had never been up in this area before let alone this trail and I was alone. There was no snow on the trail until about half way up past the Allison Saddle part. I started late and figured on no snow but right near the top it was too deep for me and my short pants and desert gators. And I saw some tracks which freaked me out! Turns out they were mountain lion tracks. So I walked with my buck knife out for a while. As if that would stop a mountain lion. But check out how big those tracks are. And some of the toes have claw marks at the tips. Is this common up there and how big do you think this cat weighed?



Dude I was scared!



Check out them claws!



On the way back I saw this cool rock sticking up.

[Hikin_Jim]

If you can see claw marks on the tracks, it's typically not a cat. Catamounts (or pumas or cougars or mt. lions or whatever other name you prefer) have retractible claws. Usually, tracks with claw marks are of canine origin.

[FIGHT ON]

Jim. Look at this page on tracks. http://www.bear-tracker.com/cougar.html
These tracks were in the snow patches in the few flat sections above the Allison Saddle. If it was a dog I would think some human tracks would be with them. And look at how perfectly the part of the print opposite the toes match up with the link photos. Pretty similar. Kind of a trapezoid shape. I looked at it being a bear and doubt it. You think a lone dog would be way up there? Half ta be a big dog. Don't you think those are huge tracks. I don't have a small foot. Size 11.
It is 4-1/2 inches from one side of my boot to the other at the edge of that photo. FOUR AND ONE HALF INCHES JIM! Get a ruler and look at four and a half inches. Those tracks are at least that wide. Don't you think it was a huge mountain lion?

[Hikin_Jim]

Jim. Look at this page on tracks. http://www.bear-tracker.com/cougar.html
These tracks were in the snow patches in the few flat sections above the Allison Saddle. If it was a dog I would think some human tracks would be with them. And look at how perfectly the part of the print opposite the toes match up with the link photos. Pretty similar. Kind of a trapezoid shape. I looked at it being a bear and doubt it. You think a lone dog would be way up there? Half ta be a big dog. Don't you think those are huge tracks. I don't have a small foot. Size 11.
It is 4-1/2 inches from one side of my boot to the other at the edge of that photo. FOUR AND ONE HALF INCHES JIM! Get a ruler and look at four and a half inches. Those tracks are at least that wide. Don't you think it was a huge mountain lion?

Yeah, dem is big trax. Mebbe is mountain screamer. Trax do look like pix in da link.

Doggie ain't gonna be up dere by hisself. Coyote trax ain't dat big. Hmm. Maybe you right. Just be glad you wasn't his dinnah!