The Station Fire Thread

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:41 am

it would be really nice if someone would man up and be accountable.

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:51 pm

Accountability is so last century.

You guys gotta get in with the times and quit whining about accountability.

EManBevHills · Post by **EManBevHills** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:22 pm

You sure nailed it, Mitch!

MtnMan · Post by **MtnMan** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:44 pm

Former Chief Don Feser sure is doing everything he can to get back at Jody for "letting him retire".

While I believe there are some solid points he has made, I really wish the people doing these articles would re-consider (or at least state he was more or less ousted by Noiron a few years ago in a real nasty fight) getting all this professional input from a disgruntled former employee, as it really undermines the validity of information, IMO. It seems almost every article I've seen in the last year about the Station Fire has input and/or quotes from him in one way or another.

PackerGreg · Post by **PackerGreg** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:48 pm

@ Mtn Man: I don't know exactly who you are, although I have a couple ideas, one of them downright intuition, but it is obvious that you are an employee of the Forest Service. Your defense of Jody makes it clear that you work directly for/with her, which also narrows it down quite a bit. Everyone on the fire lines or cleaning toilets or repairing trails cannot stand Jody. Morale is one of the major problems on The Angeles, and has been since she "slept" her way into office. Hence the congressional investigations. Don Feser was only trying to boost the morale of the firefighters Jody had left (http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2007/a ... -feser.pdf). This is known throughout the Forest Service - nationwide - check the forums. I was in Sequoia National Forest recently and got to talking with the guys at Hume Lake Ranger District. They all asked "What's up with that Jody Noiron?" and relayed tails of woe from fellow FS employees. The only reason she is still on The Angeles is that no other forest will take her.

By the way, Feser is the only one so far that has the balls to be quoted, and his wife Sally, too. But you better believe that Paul Pringle of the LA Times has been in touch with others that worked and/or dispatched the Station Fire, I've made sure of that, and he has been in contact with the oldtimer likes of Rowley & Bennett to know how the forest used to be run. He's not just pulling this stuff out of one man's...

You just keep sticking up for Jody and I won't feel a bit sorry for you when she turns on you; she will at the slightest inconvenience. The employees on The Angeles used to say about ousting Jody: "Be careful what you wish for. Her right hand man, Sue Swinson, is just as mean." That's because Susan towed the line, but where is she now?

It's about time you flying monkeys threw water on that witch instead of defending her.

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:49 am

PackerGreg wrote:Morale is one of the major problems on The Angeles, and has been since she "slept" her way into office.

Dude, slept her way into office?

That's just crazy talk.

PackerGreg · Post by **PackerGreg** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:24 am

I know. But ten years ago, when she was Jody Cook and had long flowing hair... Now she's caused herself so much grief that it shows in her face. I wonder what happened to that Sierra Club chick she used to be. Politics and self interest, I guess.

EManBevHills · Post by **EManBevHills** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:12 am

Hot off the presses this AM:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... al+News%29

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:27 am

The plot thickens

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:54 pm

Obstruction of justice? Someone may be in deep kimchee.

PackerGreg · Post by **PackerGreg** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:22 pm

Tidwell is the one that originally said "I don't see what all the fuss over the Station Fire is about"... Jody is not going to receive a warm welcome under that bus.

Rumpled · Post by **Rumpled** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:05 pm

I've said all along that USFS didn't commit to the Station Fire because they were already committing to the Morris Fire.
Looks like that opinion is being proven.
The sham investigation is a travesty.
Heads should roll, but the wrong ones probably will - as usual.

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:33 pm

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 8241.story

In November, the Forest Service review team found that the agency followed all proper protocols and procedures in its response to the fire, a conclusion labeled a whitewash by former Forest Service officers and some local elected officials.

A subsequent Los Angeles County Fire Department inquiry was far more self-critical about the events that led to the deaths of Tedmund Hall and Arnaldo Quinones, who died while trying to defend their Mt. Gleason camp.

In the letter to the GAO, the lawmakers say, "We must establish what lessons were learned from this devastating fire. By identifying mistakes made and where different choices would have caused better outcomes, agencies tasked with preventing and fighting fires will be able to better prepare and respond in the future."

EManBevHills · Post by **EManBevHills** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:13 pm

Looks like private industry is involved in the obfuscation/denial effort as well
(From today's LA Times):
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... al+News%29

EManBevHills · Post by **EManBevHills** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:36 am

Update on CA House investigation of The Station Fire is here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... al+News%29

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:26 pm

Eman,

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

The Pasadena session is set for 9 a.m. Oct. 12 at the U.S. Court of Appeals building, 125 S. Grand Ave.

Tuesday morning? Not exactly a good time for those with jobs. Or maybe they just figure that unemployment is so high that people can freely attend.

HJ

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:09 pm

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie ... e21d1&z=11

If you're not outraged you should be!

THE NEXT FEW YEARS!?

"Angeles National Forest reopens areas offering hiking, picnicking

ARCADIA, Calif.--Angeles National Forest will reopen an area about five miles long and two miles wide, northwest of Sunland, closed since the Station Fire last year.

The reopening of the Little Tujunga-Riverwood area is set for Monday (Sept. 20) and will offer the public recreation including picnicking and hiking. The area is being opened after trail improvements and storm-debris removal were completed.

The bulk of the forest’s burned areas remain closed for public safety, until further notice.
“The Forest Service intent is to reopen areas severely damaged in the fire over the next few years as conditions allow,” said Jody Noiron, forest supervisor.

“We are developing a cohesive plan to create healthier, more sustainable ecosystems, involving water, vegetation and wildlife,” Noiron said. “We are making the hard decisions toward a healthier open-space for the L.A. basin in the future.”

Reopenings are taking place through a restoration plan, which engages the public on improving the health of the San Gabriel Mountains, and enlists volunteers.

The Forest Service invites volunteers, partners and others to help the forest with its natural resource conservation needs. If individuals or groups are interested in joining the efforts please visit our website at http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/.

The forest order for the pending reopening and an official map can also be viewed on the website.

"

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:04 pm

these people can't upload a proper closure map, how could I expect them to properly regulate a forest? (yes I'm on that point again

)

all I know is, if I show up to a spot that doesn't say anything about that part being closed, I will take a route and continue as long as I don't see anything saying "area closed".

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:54 pm

I understand Noiron chips ground fine help plants grow.

HJ

Post by **Taco** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:44 am

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA

YES!

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:04 pm

wasn't there a similar size fire in like 1916 (or 1918) call the "great fire"? thought I read about in it The San Gabriels.

that was a popular hiking time...I wonder if they 'closed off' the forest then...

Terry Morse · Post by **Terry Morse** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:04 pm

I got an e-mail today staing that the Station Fire area closure order has been revised and the forest will now be closed through next summer. This is really unacceptable. Can we, as tax payers do anything about this or are we at the mercy of the ANF higher ups?

Order No. 01-10-05
AREA CLOSURE
ANGELES NATIONAL FOREST
Pursuant to 16 USC 551 and 36 CFR 261.50(a) and (b), and to protect natural resources and provide for public safety, the following acts are prohibited within the Station Fire Recovery Area of the Angeles National Forest. This Order is effective from September 20, 2010, through September 19, 2011.

EManBevHills · Post by **EManBevHills** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:54 am

Here's the latest update from the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 0902.story

EManBevHills · Post by **EManBevHills** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:35 am

And now the story on yesterday's hearing:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 1976.story

AW~ · Post by **AW~** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:09 pm

map:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC ... 253089.pdf

This Order is effective from January 22, 2011, through January 21, 2012

Whats new:

1) Red Box day use area now open...only the day use area.
2) I think this is new that Gold Creek trail in the BigT is open, although one supposedly starts at East Fork Akens...which means parking anywhere along BigTCyn road,AFH, and ACH and going hiking that were off-limits are still off-limits
3) The most minor of areas being that the SG wilderness boundary replaces the West Fork SG river as a boundary...which makes the WF hike I did legal soon.

Whats not new:
1) Twin Peaks& SG wilderness still off-limits
2) Map is just as if not more confusing and detailed

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:39 pm

wow that map is made for a HD tv.

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:41 pm

i mean, christ on a pony, i know they have computers with internet. someone in the damn office get off their ass and put up a better image. use google maps, I don't care. it's so much better than this shit. what a joke and embarrassment.

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:42 pm

The Station Fire Recovery Area begins at the intersection of Big Tujunga Canyon Road and
the Angeles National Forest boundary, Township 2 N, Range 14 W, Section 1, San Bernardino
Base and Meridian; then continues west along the Angeles National Forest boundary to the
western boundary of the private inholding at Forest Service Road No. 3N43, Township 2 N,
Range 14 W, Section 2; then continues north and east along the private inholding boundary to
its intersection with the East Fork of Akens Canyon, Township 2 N, Range 14 W, Sections 1
and 2; then continues north along the East Fork of Akens Canyon to its intersection with Forest
Service Road No. 3N30.1, Township 3 N, Range 14 W, Section 36; then continues north along
the eastern edge of Forest Service Road No. 3N30.1 to its intersection with Forest Service
Road No. 3N29.1 (Gold Creek Road), Township 3 N, Range 14 W, Section 25; then continues
north along the eastern edge of Forest Service Road No. 3N29.1 to Gold Creek Saddle and its
intersection with Forest Service Trail No. 1313W02 (Yerba Buena Trail), Township 3 N, Range
13 W, Section 19; then continues north along the eastern edge of Forest Service Trail No.
1313W02 to its intersection with Forest Service Road No. 3N32 (Mendenhall Ridge Road),
Township 3 N, Range 13 W, Section 17; then continues west along the southern edge of
Forest Service Road No. 3N32 to its intersection with Forest Service Road No. 3N37 (Burma
Road), Township 3 N, Range 14 W, Section 15; then continues southwest along the southern
boundary of Forest Service Road No. 3N37 to its intersection with Little Tujunga Road,
Township 3 N, Range 14 W, Section 15; then continues northwest along Little Tujunga Road
to its intersection with the northern edge of Forest Service Road No. 3N17.7 (the Santa Clara
Divide Road), Township 3 N, Range 14 W, Section 7; then continues east along the northern
edge of Forest Service Road 3N17.7 to its intersection with Forest Service Road No. 4N37,
Township 4 N, Range 13 W, Section 30; then continues north along the western edge of
Forest Service Road No. 4N37 to its intersection with the Angeles National Forest northern
boundary, Township 4 N, Range 13 W, Section 18; then continues east along the Angeles
National Forest boundary to its intersection with the southern edge of Aliso Canyon Road,
Township 4 N, Range 12 W, Section 8; then continues southeast along the southwest edge of
Aliso Canyon Road to its intersection with Forest Service Road No. 4N24, Township 4 N

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:42 pm

Range 12 W, Section 16; then continues north and east along the southern edge of Forest
Service Road No. 4N24 to its intersection with the western edge of Angeles Forest Highway
Township 4 N, Range 12 W, Section 2; then continues south along the western edge of
Angeles Forest Highway to its intersection with Forest Road No. 4N20, Township 4 N, Range
12 W, Sections 11 and 12; then continues east along the southern edge of Forest Road No.
4N20 to its intersection with Forest Road No. 4N20A, Township 4 N, Range 11 W, Section 18;
then continues south along the western edge of Forest Road No. 4N20A to the Desert
Marksman Rifle Range, Township 4 N, Range 11 W, Section 18; then continues around the
perimeter of the Desert Marksman Rifle Range to its intersection with Forest Road No. 4N20A,
Township 4 N, Range 11 W, Section 18; then continues east along Forest Service Road No.
4N20 to its intersection with FS OHV Trail No. 4434W20 (Santiago 4x4 OHV Trail), Township
4 N, Range 11 W, Sections 8 and 17; then continues northeast along the northern edge
Forest Service OHV Trail No. 4434W20 to its intersection with the eastern edge of Forest
Service Road No. 5N04 (Little Rock Road), Township 4 N, Range 11 W, Section 3; then
continues south along the eastern edge of Forest Service Road No. 5N04.3 (Little Rock Road)
to its intersection with South Fork Little Rock Creek, Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Section 1;
then continues south and west along South Fork Little Rock Creek to its intersection with
Forest Service Road No. 5N04.4 (Little Rock Road), Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Section 2
then continues southwest along Forest Service Road No. 5N04.4 to its intersection with Forest
Service Road No. 3N17.2 (Pacifico Mountain Road), Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Section 10;
then continues south along the eastern edge of Forest Service Road No. 3N17.2 to its
intersection with Forest Service Road No. 3N14, Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Section 10; then
continues south along Forest Road No. 3N14 to its intersection with the Charlton-Chilao
Developed Recreation Area boundary, Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Sections 21 and 22; then
continues south along the Charlton-Chilao Developed Recreation Area boundary to its
intersection with Forest Trail No. 11W08 (Vetter Mountain Trail), Township 3 N, Range 11 W,
Sections 33 and 34; then continues east along Forest Trail No. 11W08 to its intersection with
Forest road 3N16.1, Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Sections 34; then continues east along
Forest Road No. 3N16.1 to its intersection with State Highway 2 (Angeles Crest Highway),
Township 3 N, Range 12 W, Section 35; then continues north along State Highway 2 (Angeles
Crest Highway) to the Devils Canyon Trailhead, Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Section 26; then
continues east along Devils Canyon Trail to its intersection with the San Gabriel Wilderness
boundary, Township 3 N, Range 11 W, Section 26; then continues east along the San Gabriel
Wilderness boundary to its intersection with the major unnamed tributary that meets Bear

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:43 pm

Creek; Township 3 N, Range 10 W, Section 22; then continues south along the major
unnamed tributary to its intersection with the main channel of Bear Creek, Township 3 N,
Range 10 W, Section 36; then continues south along Bear Creek to its intersection with the
San Gabriel Wilderness boundary, Township 2 N, Range 10 W, Section 13; then continues
west along the San Gabriel Wilderness boundary to Cogswell Dam, Township 2 N, Range 10
W, Section 19; then continues south along the eastern edge of Cogswell Dam to its
intersection with Forest Road No. 2N25.2 (West Fork – Red Box Road), Township 2 N, Range
10 W, Section 19; then continues west along the southern edge of Forest Road No. 2N25.2 to
its intersection with Forest Service Road No. 2N24.1 (Rincon – Red Box Road), Township 2 N,
Range 11 W, Section 26; then continues northwest along Forest Service Road No. 2N24.1 to
its intersection with Forest Trail No. 11W28 (Rim Trail), Township N, Range 11 W, Section 27;
then continues west along Forest Trail No. 11W28 to its intersection with Forest Service Road
No. 2N43 (Mt. Wilson Recreation Area), Township 2 N, Range 11 W, Section 29; then
continues east along Forest Service Road No. 2N43 to its intersection with Mt. Wilson Road,
Township 2 N, Range 11 W, Section 29; then continues along Mt. Wilson Road to its
intersection with Forest Road No. 2N45 (Mt. Wilson Toll Road), Township 2 N, Range 11 W,
Section 29; then continues south and west along Forest Road No. 2N45 to its intersection with
Forest Trail No. 12W16 (Idlehour Trail), Township 1 N, Range 11 W, Section 6; then continues
northwest along Forest No. Trail 12W16 to its intersection with Forest Trail No. 12W14 (Sam
Merrill Trail), Township 2 N, Range 12 W, Section 27; then continues south along Forest Trail
No. 12W14 to its intersection with Forest Trail No. 12W14A, Township 2 N, Range 12 W,
Section 34; then continues northwest along Forest Trail No. 12W14A to its intersection with
Forest Road No. 2N50.2, Township 2 N, Range 12 W, Section 34; then continues west along
Forest Road No. 2N50.2 to its intersection with Forest Trail No. 2N65.2 (Chaney Trail),
Township 2 N, Range 12 W, Section 33; then continues west along Forest Road No. 2N50.2 to
Millard Campground, Township 2 N, Range 12 W, Section 33; then continues west around the
perimeter of Millard Campground to its intersection with Forest Road No. 2N65.1, Township 2
N, Range 12 W, Section 33; then continues 0.9 miles west along Forest Road No. 2N65.1 to
its intersection with private inholding, Township 2 N, Range 12 W, Section 32; then continues
southeast along the northern and eastern boundaries of the private inholding to the Angeles
National Forest boundary, Township 2 N, Range 12 W, Sec