The Station Fire Thread

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:38 am

Layne Cantrell wrote:Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.

Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:51 am

mattmaxon wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.
Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again

I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.

harper · Post by **harper** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:53 am

Layne Cantrell wrote:
mattmaxon wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.
Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again
I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.

yes, what CAN be done?
where *do* we aim our anger?
(would be nice if *something* constructive could be done with it.
as it is it is just making me sick...)

hh

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:54 am

harper wrote: i am with you on that one.
buckhorn is *it* for me, too.
of course, outhouses with no forest in which to camp make no sense.
but hey.

h.

Buckhorn has been "it" for me and so many others so long I can't imagine there won't be a concerted effort to save it.

I hope not to anger anyone by saying so, but Buckhorn is SO "it" for me that if is survives I'll take that as a major victory and adopt a "how cool is it to see the rest of the forest grow back" philosophy.

If it doesn't survive, well, then all bets are off. Might just decide to stay indoors the rest of my damn life.

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:56 am

harper wrote:
cougarmagic wrote:I completely understand your point. believe me, though no effort was made to save this structure. This is just an historical replica. The guys who put a bunch of work into rebuilding it several years ago are just happy to see it still there.

At this point, anything familiar that remains is a welcome sight.
oh i agree.
it actually gives me *some* relief to see this pavilion still stand.
and thank you for posting the picture!

i keep thinking about that *enormous* pine down in cooper canyon...
it must have seen fires before.
and i hope to god (or someone, something) that it will survive.

hh

That's another (somewhat) comforting thought. A lot of those old trees HAVE to have seen fire and survived. Hopefully by the time this thing rolls through our favorite campsite it'll be less intense and the larger, harder-to-replace trees will survive.

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:58 am

harper wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:
mattmaxon wrote: Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again
I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.
yes, what CAN be done?
where *do* we aim our anger?
(would be nice if *something* constructive could be done with it.
as it is it is just making me sick...)

hh

Ditto here. Can't concentrate on a damn thing since the fire started. I've been worrying sick over something I can't control and is apparently about to happen now (according to Matt's last map). Not very constructive.

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:03 am

Write letters, attend meetings, submit comments

Demand accountability

Demand fires be extinguished, leave "Prescribed Burns" for periods when it is safe to do.

Demand funding for Prescribed Burns

Understand fires are a part of the ecosystem and they will have to be

Many Many millions have been expended fighting this, a bottomless pit of money is available for fires, almost nothing for prescribed burns

Without prescribed burns this disaster will be repeated, we need to take back control of our forest from these people and see that is managed properly

This land was set aside by the efforts of far sighted individuals who worked tirelessly for the benefit of future generations.

It is our responsibility to future generations to continue the work of these people

Layne Cantrell wrote:
mattmaxon wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:Oh god. I'll be crying over my beer for years over this one.
Well when you're done crying get angry! Get very ANGRY!

This must NEVER happen again
I'm plenty angry, but what can be done? Where do we channel our anger? What can we do to make changes?

I fear its too late.

This can't happen again, sadly, because there doesn't seem to be much forest left.

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:10 am

mattmaxon wrote: It is our responsibility to future generations to continue the work of these people

I'm going to have to wallow in a LOT more self-pity before I can think about future generations.

In all seriousness I hear you. You know a lot more about this than I do, if you keep venting I'll keep learning and hopefully it'll point me in the right direction.

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:31 am

harper wrote:i keep thinking about that *enormous* pine down in cooper canyon...

Oh yeah - that enormous incense cedar. Many people are convinced it's a sequoia. That beautiful thing is sitting practically right in the water. Bark is probably a foot thick. Yeah, I'm not worried about that tree!

harper · Post by **harper** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:09 am

cougarmagic wrote:
harper wrote:i keep thinking about that *enormous* pine down in cooper canyon...
Oh yeah - that enormous incense cedar. Many people are convinced it's a sequoia. That beautiful thing is sitting practically right in the water. Bark is probably a foot thick. Yeah, I'm not worried about that tree!

ah, no, i don't know which incense cedar you mean

which is a good thing -- because it means there's *another* enormous tree in there (and probably more than we know) that might stand a chance at surving -- yet another-- fire.

no, i mean this HUGe jeffrey pine.
when you come down the fire-road from cloudburst summit, past the camp
and then enter the trail towards cooper canyon, on the right-hand side there eventually rises this enormous tree, several people around thick -- never seen a pine like it before.
do you know which i mean?
maybe that's not actually cooper canyon, but little rock creek?
or?
(i only discovered these lovely mountains a few years back and so might be off with the designations.)
i feel bereft as it is -- and can only begin to imagine how those of you who've had decades with these mountans must feel ...

harper

dgrimreaper · Post by **dgrimreaper** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:23 am

I'm with Harper. Even though I grew up in L.A., I didn't "find" the San Gabriels until a few years ago when a buddy talked me into climbing Mt. Baldy. I just hiked past Cooper Falls for the first time this spring and couldn't wait to go back since it was so nice down in there. I am sad that the mountains have burned so much, will be more so if they can't hold the line at Buckhorn, and upset that the decision makers have left this fire to burn and burn, and as Matt sated before, set back fires in other places while the front line raged (rages??) on. Truly disheartening.

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 am

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:30 am

Having loved, and hiked hundreds of miles in the San Gabriels this year alone, the sadness over this fire and its effect on forest and wildlife is almost overpowering. I echo the sentiment that we can't allow misfortunes that we hold no sway over to dominate our thinking. I for one, will be turning my energies towards helping rebuild the Angeles in any way that I can.

harper · Post by **harper** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:02 pm

mattmaxon wrote:

oh god.
i feel literally nauseated looking at this map.

so -- *where* do we make these demands?
*who* do we talk to?
and in which way?
any ideas?

also -- where do we go to help clean up this mess (literally, i mean, in the actual mountains.)

harper

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:46 pm

harper wrote:oh god.
i feel literally nauseated looking at this map.

You are human

harper wrote:so -- *where* do we make these demands?

Ah good question....

Our elected representatives would be my suggestion

Local, County, State, Federal

harper wrote:*who* do we talk to?

Anyone who'll listen

Talking to the forest service will be a waste of time

harper wrote:and in which way?

We'll I wouldn't go down there screaming, as much as I'd like to they'll just write you off as a nut.

harper wrote:any ideas?

About what?

harper wrote:also -- where do we go to help clean up this mess (literally, i mean, in the actual mountains.)

Well right now, you can't. There are many organizations big and small in the San Gabriel Mtns who volunteer. I'm sure there will be many, many opportunities

I for one have maintained the Stone Cyn Trail for about the last 15 years alone for the most part, I'll be needing help over there

There is probably 1-2 miles of rock falls and slides that will have to be cleared. That is just one trail

Matt

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:49 pm

I've been mucking around with the main source for the MODIS data

This seems to be a bit better than the other source I was using.

I "think" the time is GMT, or US EASTERN

harper · Post by **harper** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:17 pm

man, this is nerve-wracking!!
(and wrecking, too -- ack!)
so buckhorn is stil intact, according to this map.

let me know when you go to clean/clear your trail (whenever that may be), i'll help.

harper

mattmaxon wrote:I've been mucking around with the main source for the MODIS data

This seems to be a bit better than the other source I was using.

I "think" the time is GMT, or US EASTERN

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:43 pm

harper wrote:man, this is nerve-wracking!!
(and wrecking, too -- ack!)
so buckhorn is stil intact, according to this map.

I know, the waiting is just killing me. Hopefully I'm not driving you all nuts with my nervous energy.

let me know when you go to clean/clear your trail (whenever that may be), i'll help.

harper

Ditto. Anyone needs a strong back/weak mind to pitch in let me know.

Mike P · Post by **Mike P** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Mattmaxon, I have always thought of your posts before this thread as great for the list. I definitely believe that a thorough review of tactics and such should be made and undoubtedly they will.

Are you a firefighter or trained in fighting these things? Is dousing a fire really as easy as you say? Let us know your cred and I'll crawl back under my rock.

Go for it. I look good in kevlar!

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:01 pm

Easy there tigers. People need to express their pain. Let it be.

Mike P · Post by **Mike P** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:06 pm

Aw shucks, I was being polite...

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:13 pm

Everyone was talking about 'putting out fires' - I got carried away.

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:29 pm

cougarmagic wrote:Everyone was talking about 'putting out fires' - I got carried away.

Maybe a steel cage match officially sanctioned by the San Gabriel Mountain Forum would provide a nice distraction from recent events.

Matt vs. Mike in round one.

I don't want to fight "Hikeup" though, because he likes beer and I respect that. I like beer an awful lot m'self.

Post by **HikeUp** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:38 pm

um...wtf?

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:42 pm

HikeUp wrote:um...wtf?

I really liked the WWF when I was a kid. Sometimes I forget and think everyone did at some point. If not then my remarkably immature sense of humor makes absolutely no sense.

As for bringing up your name personally, well, I just wanted to work beer in there somewhere.

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:45 pm

'notha update:

As of Tuesday, September 8, at 3:00 p.m. Angeles Crest Christian Camp is safe from the fire!

After talking with an LA County Fire Chief today it looks as though the fire has moved away from the camp. The good news is that the camp is out of immediate danger!! The bad news is that we lost one of our residences down in our secondary camp, Singing Pines. The fire never reached the main campus but did go through part of the other camp. However, even with that, most of Singing Pines escaped the fire.

We are very grateful to all of the firefighters for their help as well as all the prayers that went up to God on behalf of the camp. The firefighters still have quite a challenge ahead of them as they deal with the rest of the forest that is still burning.

We continue to take things one day at a time and know that in the weeks ahead there will be a lot to do to get the camp up and running. In addition, it looks as though it will probably be several weeks before our full-time resident staff can return to the camp. Again, we want to say "thank you" to all of you for your concern and for all the prayers that were said on behalf of Angeles Crest Christian Camp!!

harper · Post by **harper** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:48 pm

DamOTclese wrote:
mattmaxon wrote:OH YEAH! It still stands despite the minimal efforts of our illustrious Forest (dis)Service
40,000 fire fighters brought in, over 30 heros injured so far, 2 fire fighters dead so far, and there you sit with your yap open denigrading the heros who are putting their lives on the line.

far as i know he was *not* referring to any of the brave souls actually working up there -- although it's clear why you must have thought so.

in a *different* thread and in a different conversation (but with the same people, i among them) he made a point of stating that he was talking about administrative (political and fiscal) decisions -- and *not* about anyone working in the front-lines. alas, if you have not read the other thread (the 9/8/09 "beast" thread, to be exact) you (or anyone) have no way of knowing this.

just thought i'd let you know.

harper

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:08 am

Yes that is correct , -NO ACTIVE BURNING- was detected in the last 12 hours

Cautious optimism is the phrase of the day

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:11 am

edenooch · Post by **edenooch** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:16 am

this place should have been actively re opened 12 hours ago