Taco's Alpine Touring Bike Project

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Taco
Snownado survivor
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:35 pm

Post by Taco »

I intend for this to be a thread I update as I build and improve this project.

I want a bike that I can go nearly anywhere with, simply and reliably, while also being lightweight enough to pick up, push, pull, carry under my arm, carry on my back, and all the sorta crap you gotta do with a bike in the mountains while being a mountaineer. This bike needs to be able to go up Baldy in summer, carry all my crap to go as far up as I want in winter before I either carry it or hide it for later, ride across Death Valley and the Mojave while carrying a shitload of water and food, haul enough gear to climb technical routes, ride up White Mountain Peak, and obviously I need to commute on it, which is 46mi/day on mostly paved roads. I want fatter tires for sand and snow (29x3), though I'll likely use 29x2.6 more often due to availability and so on. It needs to be tough but not overbuilt like a Surly. A bike with a shitload of stuff on it is rarely 'light' by any standards, but when you have it packed light it shouldn't be a pig. The lightest parts should be used but only if they are reliable and durable enough to survive how you treat things, and how the conditions will treat them. I might be easy on gear but if you slip and yer bike slams into a buncha rocks and stuff that ain't gonna matter much. Weight must be saved as many places as practically possible so the bike isn't holding you back on these hard adventures.

Two years ago I bought a Trek 1120 through my work to see what I needed. It is a bike from a big brand and was made by a team with a vision which undoubtedly is different from mine due to my 'unique' requirements. It's more of a traditional hardtail type mountain bike but with a riding carbon fork with an aluminum steerer tube. When not carrying anything, just the bike and bags, it is quite light! I don't recall how light, but it is very easy to lift it up above my head on any normal day, and it is not cumbersome when lifting it above big rocks on a trip up Baldy or whatever. The 29x3 tires give great flotation in sand and on scree, and make the lack of suspension less of an issue. I prefer a rigid bike for my trips due to simplicity, lack of maintenance, weight, cost, etc. Often the places I go would just be more fun with suspension, not easier.


Having ridden this bike for 2 years and 3,600 miles, I've learned both about this bike and more importantly what I need and want in the final product, shall we say. I'll break this down into subjects so I can rant coherently for a few hours.

-Gripes with 1120

I don't want to drag this out cause I wanna go to sleep so I'll keep it brief.
*Rear rack mounts are placed in such a way that a loaded rack breaks the seat stays, thus breaking the frame. Two sets of bolts higher up, nothing connecting to the dropout. This cantilevers the weight and snaps the frame. Multiple searchable issues present online. I need to be able to load the rear of a bike that's meant for this job without worrying about not having a bike anymore. Total no-go for the 1120 from my point of view.
*Pressfit bottom bracket in this sort of bike is dumb. Threaded is better from a service, longevity, and initial manufacturing quality point of view.
*Internal routing is a hopeless thing to work on in the field, which is where this bike lives. The bike must be easy to work on in bad conditions in the field. Internal routing of this flavor also means I can't use the brake and shift housings I greatly prefer. I get nothing of value in return. My housings never get in the way and don't get snagged on foliage or encumber me in any fashion, nor do they generate drag that slows me down. I don't care about a 'clean' look. I am a mechanic by trade who has to learn and live with everyone else's internal routing and I'm much happier not having it on mine. I do like internal dynamo wiring, since it requires zero maintenance and is a one-and-done thing, and it can also be routed externally without issue.
*The 1120 is suspension corrected, so you can run a suspension fork. I don't and don't care to for this job the bike fulfills. This limits how big the main triangle of the bike can be, amongst other geometry differences. Thus the bike can't carry enough food/water/stuff.
*There are more points, quite a few I think, but I am really tired so I'll save it for later.

Many of these issues are because this bike is meant to be used with a dropper post, so they compromised other areas of the bike to accept this. I don't use a dropper on this sort of bike, thus those are all negative compromises, some being deal breakers.


-Frame

The frame is the most important part of this bike. Might sound obvious, but it seems irrelevant nowadays with how bikes are sold. I am building the bike up with parts of the previous one, keeping most of them except the brakes. For the frame, I chose a Curve GMX+ in titanium, which took me quite a long time to save up for. I was going with the cheaper steel one but once I had enough money saved for it I just figured why not keep going. The titanium is lighter, doesn't rust or corrode, and amongst other aspects the downtube twin front bottle cage mounts are in the frame instead of an add-on piece like the steel frame. I've never owned a titanium frame and I've read that they have a special ride quality to them. I didn't buy it for that cause I can't know that until hundreds or thousands of miles in, but either way I don't think that matters much now. If it feels better, then that's just a special little gift in the future.

Steel has the advantage of being relatively easy to repair. I am confident that I could weld a cracked frame of mine if I had a couple pipes to practice on first. Confident I could weld a cracked joint or whatever to keep me riding, not build a whole frame. I don't expect a stack of dimes, either. Last thing I welded was probably the exhaust on my S13 couple. Anyway, point is they can probably be repaired in any town with a welder. Titanium requires purging the air out of the tubes you're TIG welding with an inert gas or whatever, Argon maybe? I don't remember but point is if I'm in East Jabib and I crack a titanium frame and I can't ride it, it ain't getting fixed. If I break it in the US, I can get it fixed but it's not likely to happen overnight. That said, I haven't cracked a frame myself yet (I think? Wait a minute...). I've broken a ton of other stuff though. They built the GMX+ frame pretty burly so I'm not worried. The design team is all endurance bikepacking, racing, and dirtbag nerds, which is a big part of why I trust them. The titanium one is a bit lighter than the steel, enough that it will noticeably contribute to the overall weight when loaded for a typical overnight+.

I want a simple frame with lots of framebag space, the ability to take a rack on the rear, threaded bottom bracket, all shift and brake cables and housing is external, and plenty of places to mount bottle cages. This frame checks those boxes and has a HUGE frame bag space, which is a problem with the 1120's small frame bag space. That alone is a huge upgrade. The frame can mount two bottle cages inside the main triangle (N/A since I'm using a full frame bag), one on the downtube near the crank, two on the downtube halfway up angled downwards, one either side of the rear dropout/wheel, and two (maybe more) on the fork. In my setup if I don't have a rear rack, that would mean I can carry 8 bottles on the bike, with one being on a stem cap bottle mount that I use. Current bike carries 3, and 2 of those are on a mount that may break. That makes a very big deal for desert touring and the projects I have out there. I have been hose clamping two bottle cages on the upper part of the downtube for years now and it really helps on long rides. With a rear rack that's still 6 bottles, and if I pack it right I could probably keep two bottles on the fork and also carry small cargo on the fork as well, as there are 4 bolts each leg.

Most of the components on my 1120 will come off and live on the new frame. The Shimano hydraulic are good, but I don't like having hydraulic brakes on this sort of bike, so I am putting a pair of my Growtac Equals on with Jagwire Elite Link cables and housing. Elite Link housing is a long flexy tube surrounded by 'Bones', little aluminium beads with a hole drilled in em. They are convex on one end and concave on the other so they nest head to toe and have a nice range of articulation. What this all means is, well, a lot. First off is they're way more expensive than regular housing, which immediately kills the appeal for most people. However, if you can get them at a good price, and you ride A LOT, they pay for themselves.

The design means there really isn't anywhere for the housing to compress. This means your input at the lever, whether brake or shift, translates smoothly to the brake or derailleur without slop. The brakes feel very confident and positive, and shifting is smooth and precise. One very special thing about these housings is that it does not stretch. What this means from a mechanic's point of view is that you don't need to replace them. The inner strands on regular shift housing eventually stick out beyond the rubber protective coating that makes up the rest of the housing. Every so often, one needs to trim off this excess portion so the shifting isn't mushy and indexing can be accurate and repeatable again.

Elite link is also more flexible due to the design of the 'bones', as well call them. This helps when you have a big handlebar bag, as you can route the housing behind or between stuff without it getting angry with you. You can also get different color bones, which is pretty tight. I don't go too hard making things colorful here cause the bones are the most expensive part of this. I did get a spare set of gold bones to sprinkle in on the black kit I have for this bike.

Internally routed bikes may or may not allow Elite Link and other similar systems, but this frame is fully external so that's not an issue.

I use the Elite Link on 3 of my 4 bikes that I ride regularly, and am very pleased with it. It lasts a lot longer (pays for itself after awhile), looks better, and is apparently 20% lighter (though I wouldn't normally give a damn about saving weight on housings). I already have some kits so I'm using that.


-Bearings

The 1120 has a pressfit bottom bracket, which makes sense for an aluminium frame that needs to clear a 3 inch tire. I don't care for it and it's not as easy to service. The GMX uses a T47 threaded bottom bracket, which I like a lot more. I am going with a Cane Creek Hellbender 70 (or 110, maybe later) as it seems like it will do better with river crossings, snow, repeated freeze-thaw cycles while wet, sand, dust, and a lot of miles. The 110 series has a 110 year warranty, which is pretty cool. I aim to have good bearings which are well sealed and survive bad conditions the longest. The bottom bracket has a thankless job and everything a bike does, aside from being used as a cart, relies on the BB to survive and spin well.

The headset on the new bike will also be a Cane Creek Hellbender. Headsets tend to rust often since so much water can eventually enter the head tube. I've had great luck with the Cane Creek 40 which is a budget headset that's very good and very common. If these Hellbenders are even better than that, I'll probably forget about the entire subject. When a piece of kit does it's job really well, you don't notice it.


-Wheels

I am currently using wheels my buddy sold me for cheap. I will eventually build up stronger wide carbon rims with brass nipples, strong but light spokes, a Schmidt SON28 dyno front hub and probably a Shimano XT rear hub, 6 bolt disc. I prefer 6 bolt over centerlock for a bike where I may need to remove the discs (such as air travel), since it's much easier to carry a T25 tool already on yer pocket multi tool than it is to carry what you need to remove a centerlock rotor. The front hub is a SON28, of which I own one already in a different size, and it's proven to be perfectly reliable despite many stream crossings and loads of bad weather over tens of thousands of miles. They have a 30,000mi or so service interval. This stands above all the competition. It's an easy choice. I'm not totally decided on which rear hub to use yet, wanting something that's quiet and light and simple, thus likely an XT. Cartridge bearings are OK with me now that I know how to remove them. Loose ball is just fine as well and is preferable internationally, so long as the seals are excellent. Building the wheels myself means I know how the whole thing feels and I can trust it. It will be an expensive set of wheels even with most parts at discount, so I reckon it'll be done this summer. For the lights I'm just taking the Sinewave Beacon and Supernova tail light off my main bike and putting em on. I'll have to get another headlight for that bike, but I have ideas.

For tires I'll eventually try out the VIttoria Mezcal 2.6, which is still wide for a tire despite being skinnier than the 3" I use now. They have an excellent reputation for durability and longevity from rides like the Great Divide (where they're the most popular tire), and the tread design is fast but still grippy. I ride a lot of paved miles to get to the dirt (and commute), so a smoother center tread helps a lot. 3" tires are also getting harder to find, and I think 2.6 would be just fine for the majority of my riding anyway.


-Bars

The GMX+ is usually built with drop bars, but I find flat bars much easier to live with and ride off road. They're easier to push a bike with as well, especially when you need to use the brakes. Steep dirt descents on flats offer a much better upright body position and you don't need to be in the drops to get the most leverage and power on the brake levers. Thus, flats. I have a Salsa Salt Flat carbon bar that my buddy gave me during one of his parts gift day, where he dumps a box full of parts that don't work for his biking but that I might like. He also gave me some Ergon grips and bar ends. All of that lives on the 1120 and is being directly swapped over to the new bike. I will need a light but durable and vibration-resistant headlight mount when I put the dyno on, ideally some sort of forged 7075 aluminium thing that's both beefy and light.


-Brakes

Same setup as on my 'gravel' bike: the excellent Growtac Equal calipers (in gold, of course) with metallic pads, and 180mm Hope two-piece rotors. This setup is the best I've used for remote challenging riding, and it is very light, simple and easy to live with. It has also proven to be very fade resistant, which is the biggest factor in braking performance for me. I will be buying lightweight brake levers to match them for this build. Gold ones, of course.


-Shifting

Same 1x11 setup. My 11t cog is dying so I need a new one of those (couple bucks). Might eventually go with a fancier derailleur if it's significantly lighter. Might use a LinkGlide cassette and other parts due to their longer lifespan, especially if touring longer term or going overseas. A little more weight but a lot longer life. I use a Microshift thumb shifter in friction mode. Sometimes I set it up and tune it for indexed shifting, but once I have to tune it a few times I get sick of it and just put it in friction mode and forget about it. Indexing is better when you're doing real technical riding so you can be in the gear you want immediately. Most of my riding is slower paced so that's rarely an issue, and I've gotten better at using friction so I've surprised myself at how much less I need indexing on a MTB. I still don't recommend friction for MTB for other people. Great for touring and bikepacking, etc.


-Everything else

The saddle is a Brooks B17 in black with copper rivets, which looks cool. I might poke holes in the bottom of the side flaps and tie the sides to each other with cord like on other models to control how much the sides splay out. I might also cut the saddle bag loops off the back since I don't ever need em and they occasionally get caught on my pants, as well as limit where I can grab the saddle when moving the bike around. Seatpost is a Niner carbon one I got for cheap. It's going on the new frame, then I'm measuring it and cutting off the excess once I have everything dialed in. That'll save a few grams, which is a massive snack for an anthill. ;-) Saving little bits of weight here and there adds up, especially when it's the weight of something that doesn't need to exist at all. Trim the fat. The saddle isn't light but if a saddle is uncomfortable, the bike sucks and you aren't having fun. They make a titanium rail version of the B17 but it costs way too much for me. Maybe I'll find one second hand. Maybe it's not strong enough for a 200lb rider, I dunno.

I have to make or buy a new frame bag. The new frame's bag space is really big, which will allow me to carry even more crap! The lower part of the bag is good for heavy, dense stuff. Keeping that close to the bottom bracket minimizes impact on handling. More space for food and water. Some of the projects I want to do with this bike will require bringing weeks worth of food on the bike, so storing it low and central is a big help, and removes stresses from bags and racks elsewhere. I've always thought the semi-translucent Dyneema bags looked tight, like some sort of lunar lander shit, so I might do that. It's also super light, not that normal ones are heavy or anything. This whole bike is fixing to look like NASA made it.

Anyway, I just ordered the frame a lil bit ago. Not sure how long it'll take to get here but I'm in no hurry. I still need to buy bearings and levers and one or two other things. Once it shows up it should be rideable within a few weeks, so maybe end of April or so. I'm interested to see how much the whole shebang will weigh without food and water etc, just bike with bags. Bikepacking.com tested one that weighed 22lbs or so in a size medium. I would be quite happy with anything under 30lbs and if it's below 25 I'll be very impressed. I'm sure it could go lighter than that but not without compromising more in ways I don't want to.

Time for bed. Cheers
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Sean
Cucamonga
Posts: 4178
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:32 pm

Post by Sean »

Have you tried using AI to build the perfect bike? I hear it's all the rage with the younglings these days.
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