Yesterday, amidst the thunderstorms in the mountains, 3 of us did an exploratory of Vivian Creek above Halfway Camp looking for good rappels. We had hiked from the Vivian Creek trailhead, dropped our rappeling gear at Vivian Creek Camp (we were coming back to rappel the last 1 and 1/2 mile section of the creek from the camp down to Mill Creek).
On our exploration of the creek above Halfway Camp, we found one 125 foot drop to go back and do. Then, we reversed directions and started heading up the creek. We went up all the way up to just below High Creek. We encountered some beautiful waterfalls on the way up. We ascended along the wet, slippery rock, much of it very loose. There was also a fair amount of bushwhacking where the creek narrowed. It was a combination of Class 2 scrambling and some Class 4 sections. But again, it was beautiful. At the end of our exploration, we made the very, very, very steep ascent to the Vivian Creek Trail at High Creek.
The 3 of us then hiked up the Vivian Creek Trail to the overlook and waited for 4 others of our party who had elected not to do the exploration but rather went to the summit. About 1 pm, we all started down from the overlook. We got down to Vivian Creek Camp and retrieved our gear By the time we were suited up and ready to start down, it was already 4 pm. Not only that, but the light showers we had had up to this point turned into a deluge.
At this point, things actually looked bleak for 8 people to do 5 rappels of 160, 120, 90, 70 and 70 feet before it got dark. Not only that, but the storm had ensured that all the waterfalls were pouring. We would have brought wetsuits had we anticipated the storm.
Partly due to the fact that we had a newbie with us, it took a whole hour for everyone to get down the first 160 foot waterfall. Then, a rappeler's worst nightmare: our rope got stuck. We pulled and pulled and pulled and it became apparent it was good and stuck. Our most experienced ascendor started up with prussik loops to fix the problem but the technique wasn't working for him. We then inventoried what everyone had in terms of mechnical devices and someone came up with one that worked great. Still, it took our hero a good half hour to jumar all the way up to the anchor and fix the problem.
So, now it's 6 pm and we've got 4 more long, cold, wet raps to go. At this point we started using various techniques to expedite the raps. We set up single lines side by side (using the Stone Knot) to get 2 people going down at once. Rope crossing was a little bit of an issue using this technique, but it worked out. We also had 2 pairs that matched up in weight and those pairs simul-rapped. My 150 lbs. matched up with a gal who weighed 120 lbs. and had 2 wet 10 lb. rope bags hanging from her harness to even things out.
We got soaked on all the rappels, but the wettest was the last one where there was no way to avoid descending all the way directly under the pouring water. This drop also had, about 1/2 down, a 30 foot section of free rappeling which made things exciting.
As people came down from the last rappel, they took off for their cars to avoid approaching hypothermia. I stayed with last 2 down to collect the ropes, etc. The last person got down at 7:45 and it was about 8 pm when we started down to Mill Creek and the cars.
Would you believe me if I told you that the entire day was an amazing adventure?
Vivian Creek Canyoneering
I haven't yet uploaded my pics anywhere. ( I assume I can't insert images directly from my hard drive to here. If this is incorrect someone let me know). First, I'll be creating images on SummitPost because I plan to do a TR there on this outing.MikeSash wrote:we need to see pics!
TacoDelRio wrote:! Always a great adventure, so long as nobody gets hurt.
Oh no no no...now Im giving a free pass because it was an honest story...well sort of a free pass. I would like to see what should have been done....and yeah I do know, but.....oh alright since maybe this tr wasnt cleared by the other members of the group lets let it be. But this kind of trip is typically smashed in the canyoneering community.
AW wrote:TacoDelRio wrote:! Always a great adventure, so long as nobody gets hurt.Free pass? "Cleared" by others? Taco hit it dead on --"Huh?"
Oh no no no...now Im giving a free pass because it was an honest story...well sort of a free pass. I would like to see what should have been done....and yeah I do know, but.....oh alright since maybe this tr wasnt cleared by the other members of the group lets let it be. But this kind of trip is typically smashed in the canyoneering community.
Yes, I have been in precarious situations..more than once. But they werent fun at all. Ive hated all of them. Bad decisions, but not proud of them. Even for trips that looked perfect...because it makes a person a better decision maker.
There are two ways to look at it:
1) Just read the trip and ignore the style of the trip and any bad decisions- free pass - aka its just a tr, not my problem if something went wrong.
2) Speak up about it - this needs the facts and not one persons intrepretation if available. What one person thinks was the case may not be the same as what another group member thinks was the case. Heck, sometimes the entire group is unable to come to grips with something.
There are two ways to look at it:
1) Just read the trip and ignore the style of the trip and any bad decisions- free pass - aka its just a tr, not my problem if something went wrong.
2) Speak up about it - this needs the facts and not one persons intrepretation if available. What one person thinks was the case may not be the same as what another group member thinks was the case. Heck, sometimes the entire group is unable to come to grips with something.
I think AW is saying that some protocol was not followed or maybe some bad decisions were made that caused the group to enter a dangerous situation? I'm just guessing since I don't know anything about the technical aspects of canyoneering. But it did sound like Augie's situation was pretty hairy. It sort of reminding me of the two guys on Cathedral Peak who tried to repel quickly to get out of a cold wet storm. They ended up making some crucial technical and judgment errors which eventually led to one of them dying.
So I can kinda understand what he means about the free pass or the critical review. If your buddy came back from an epic, then you'd just want to hear about his adventure and not analyze it. But maybe later you'd want to think about it some more to see what really happened or what else could have been done. I dunno, just thinking out loud.
So I can kinda understand what he means about the free pass or the critical review. If your buddy came back from an epic, then you'd just want to hear about his adventure and not analyze it. But maybe later you'd want to think about it some more to see what really happened or what else could have been done. I dunno, just thinking out loud.
Yup Tim, protocols not followed. Trouble is no one really agrees on what the protocols are...but OK...
1) starting at 4pm down a creek in a deluge- dont see the merit of this decision. Doesnt have to be the worst case scenario-trying to outhussle a flash flood. Regardless of whether these decisions to descend are just really emotional decisions, higher water creates its own set of obstacles and also amps up the atmosphere. A new person to canyoneering shouldnt be in it. And that IMO should mean no one goes.
2) simulrappel in water - we dont do this. at all. One slip and both sides are done. This sort of brings up the question of how many ropes there were...if I were told that simulraps were in order, I would think the person talking were beginning to lose it...just being honest here. Canyoneering rope is strength rated for one person, the stone knot is meant for another person rigging on the other side, not descending as well.....unfortunately there is a lot of big talk about these types of descents, and then when you say OK, lets do Mildred Falls(about 400ft tall) that way, they say no way! Or someone else is taking the risk.
3) Leadership - everyone working together for fun. The canyoneering equation usually means for every hero, there is a lack of leadership. The protocol is everyone can do the canyon themselves(this has a deeper meaning) or an agreed to plan to cover the lack thereof. This is I trust you with my life kind of stuff. Its different from rock climbing(this is not a hike either!). Despite some egos, no one person can possibly cover all the aspects of canyoneering...but this is anarchy/madness on this tr. This kind of stuff scares the daylights out of me, as this is where epics happen. When this protocol is broken and a mistake is made, look out.
Its too bad that people look to make it personal and assign blame on others, ending in a worthless who is better contest. Sometimes others show their weakness and take it personally whether it was intended or not. Ive made it personal on one occasion(not to anyone who reads this board), but thats neither here nor there. This is an observation of the decisions made on a canyoneering descent, not the person.
1) starting at 4pm down a creek in a deluge- dont see the merit of this decision. Doesnt have to be the worst case scenario-trying to outhussle a flash flood. Regardless of whether these decisions to descend are just really emotional decisions, higher water creates its own set of obstacles and also amps up the atmosphere. A new person to canyoneering shouldnt be in it. And that IMO should mean no one goes.
2) simulrappel in water - we dont do this. at all. One slip and both sides are done. This sort of brings up the question of how many ropes there were...if I were told that simulraps were in order, I would think the person talking were beginning to lose it...just being honest here. Canyoneering rope is strength rated for one person, the stone knot is meant for another person rigging on the other side, not descending as well.....unfortunately there is a lot of big talk about these types of descents, and then when you say OK, lets do Mildred Falls(about 400ft tall) that way, they say no way! Or someone else is taking the risk.
3) Leadership - everyone working together for fun. The canyoneering equation usually means for every hero, there is a lack of leadership. The protocol is everyone can do the canyon themselves(this has a deeper meaning) or an agreed to plan to cover the lack thereof. This is I trust you with my life kind of stuff. Its different from rock climbing(this is not a hike either!). Despite some egos, no one person can possibly cover all the aspects of canyoneering...but this is anarchy/madness on this tr. This kind of stuff scares the daylights out of me, as this is where epics happen. When this protocol is broken and a mistake is made, look out.
Its too bad that people look to make it personal and assign blame on others, ending in a worthless who is better contest. Sometimes others show their weakness and take it personally whether it was intended or not. Ive made it personal on one occasion(not to anyone who reads this board), but thats neither here nor there. This is an observation of the decisions made on a canyoneering descent, not the person.
I REPEAT: it was an amazing adventure that I wouldn’t have missed, both the morning exploration of Vivian Creek below Halfway Camp and upriver all the way to High Creek Camp, and the canyoneering in the afternoon.AW wrote:Yup Tim, protocols not followed. Trouble is no one really agrees on what the protocols are...but OK...
I agree with only one thing in AW’s armchair quarterback analysis: the newbie should not have been there. I should have questioned his request to come with us even though I had no role in planning this outing. He actually did great and it was evident he enjoyed the experience. Still, as a cautious outdoors person, this canyon given the wet conditions was too advanced for him (although others in the group disagreed with me).
The other particulars:
We did not start down the canyon in a deluge. Just as we started suiting up, a heavy rain began that lasted for about 20 minutes. We waited until it stopped and the skies seemed to be clearing before we started down. Yes, while waiting for the rain to stop and the time approaching 4 p.m. prospects to me seemed bleak to get down before dark if we had to wait much longer to start down with 8 people. But the rain did stop and two of our party who had been down the canyon a couple of times previously stated that we had plenty of time to get down before dark. I was reassured by this –you have to trust others’ judgment sometimes, particularly those who have done the route before. The canyon’s distance from our starting point to its end was between 1 and 1.5. miles, not lengthy at all compared to other canyons. Plus, the end of the canyon emptied into Mill Creek at a point about a 10 minute walk from the cars.
Despite the 20 minute deluge, I had no concerns about flash flooding given the conditions I observed. Different story had it been raining all day, but this was not the case.
Everyone in the group was adequately skilled for this canyon, with the exception of the newbie. So he got extra attention and especially on the first rappel—the longest—he definitely slowed things down. Still, when the last person came down on this rappel, there was adequate time cushion. But then came the stuck rope. It took an extra half hour to get it down.
Now we did want to move expeditiously because we had four more rappels to go. To gain efficiency, we used the Stone Knot (it isolates two strands of rope) on the shortest rappels. My TR summary said that we used the technique “to get 2 people going down at once.” My language was imprecise. We weren’t going down simultaneously. Rather, while one person was rappelling, the second person was rigging. When the first person was off rappel, the second one started down and a third person would start rigging.
We did have two ropes and the first ones down some of the drops moved ahead to the next drop and anchored the second rope to save time.
As for simul-rapping, the two pair that did it, including myself, had used the technique before and I felt comfortable doing it. It’s like free-soloing 4th class rock in the sense that it’s not for everyone. Individual choice.
On the last drop with a free rappel section, our newbie was lowered rather than have him rappel. Yes, as people came down the last rappel, they were getting very cold and rather than stand around and get colder they headed back for the cars.
After the last man was down the last rappel, the 3 of us still there washed off and bagged the ropes and headed for the cars just as it got dark. When we got to the parking lot, the 5 who had gone in first were still there. We all gathered to make dinner plans. Everyone agreed it had been a great day.
I must point out that I felt I took much greater risks on this day on the exploratory part of the outing. Moving up Vivian Creek, there was a lot of Class 2 scrambling and some bushwhacking, but I also ascended some 4th class sections to avoid the waterfalls and had to proceed gingerly, with the help of adrenaline, to avoid wet and loose rock. The other two who were with me on the exploratory chose not to ascend these sections. Again, individual choice. But I felt fully within my comfort zone.
In short, the day had its share of adrenaline rush and some anxious moments such as the stuck rope. If AW chooses to call this “anarchy/madness” it’s of no moment to me. I tend to like adventure in my outings—ask Taco about our SuperBowl Sunday climb of the Baldy Bowl this year in a raging whiteout. Taco, if we hadn’t had Travis’s GPS loaded with the route down the Ski Hut Trail we couldn’t have seen for sh** to get down off the summit. If we’d stayed up there much longer, we would have all either been giant icicles or been blown off the top by those winds. Now, maybe that was closer to “madness.”
Superbowl SUnday on Baldy was one of the best days I can remember in my life. It was awesome. It was an "epic" in the sense that we got more than we bargained for (I guess), but it was exactly what you go into the mountains for. It was beautiful!
Here is the link to my SummitPost TR (plenty of pics)MikeSash wrote:we need to see pics!
http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/4 ... rness.html
Thanks Taco. Refresh me as to Monkeyface Falls.
It's on the north side of the canyon when you enter Mill Creek Canyon (southern side of San G, right?). I'd verify the name but my maps are missing. Basically right off the 38 and Mill Creek Drive (or whatever road heads from the 38 to Galena Peak area).
My buddy, who's big into the San G area, said it's a real cool falls, big drop, etc. Looks very tight, though.
My buddy, who's big into the San G area, said it's a real cool falls, big drop, etc. Looks very tight, though.
Sounds well worth checking out. Has your friend been down it before?TacoDelRio wrote:It's on the north side of the canyon when you enter Mill Creek Canyon (southern side of San G, right?). I'd verify the name but my maps are missing. Basically right off the 38 and Mill Creek Drive (or whatever road heads from the 38 to Galena Peak area).
My buddy, who's big into the San G area, said it's a real cool falls, big drop, etc. Looks very tight, though.