Camped out overnight at Chilao this weekend. First weekend of hunting season meant that pretty much all campgrounds were full but found an overflow spot, paid the fee and had a pleasant night.
The next morning, went to do a little hike in the vicinity of Horse Flats campground and Mt. Hillyar and was specifically told by Chilao visitor center rangers that parking in turnouts on this road is okay, just be sure not to block road, campsites, trailheads etc. Found a wide shoulder marked with many other vehicle tire tracks from parking, no posted parking restrictions, left car out of the roadway on shoulder. Came back to a $130 ticket from the somewhat Kafkaesque sounding Central Violations Bureau, no mention of Forest Service, only addresses in Pennsylvania and Texas. No way to contact a human being. Seems that you either pay up now or wait to receive a court summons and then try to contest it at some federal courthouse. It's worded in very intimidating ways describing the revocation of driving license, etc.
When I showed it to the forest service folks, they seemed just as baffled as I was. The violation described is "vehicle in area not specifically developed for vehicle parking" or something like that. Ever seen one of these? Is it something issued by forest rangers, county sheriffs, caltrans, game wardens, overzealous camp operators, self-appointed enforcers or whom? Was I technically off-roading?
Thanks!
Ever get a parking ticket in the ANF from the CVB?
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Uncle Rico
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:48 pm
Ugh. Never had the pleasure walker, but there is apparently a government organization called the Central Violations Bureau that, according to the website, is "a national center charged with processing violation notices (tickets) issued and payments received for petty offenses committed on federal property."
https://www.cvb.uscourts.gov/index.html
Based upon this, I have to believe your ticket was issued by a Forest Ranger or some other federal officer, not county sheriff or CalTrans (unless those guys have been deputized as federal agents).
https://www.cvb.uscourts.gov/index.html
Based upon this, I have to believe your ticket was issued by a Forest Ranger or some other federal officer, not county sheriff or CalTrans (unless those guys have been deputized as federal agents).
Does the ticket cite regulation 261.16m?
Driveways within developed recreation sites like Horse Flats might be regulated differently than main roads outside such sites. Were you inside the Horse Flats gate?§261.16 Developed recreation sites.
The following are prohibited:
(m) Operating or parking a motor vehicle or trailer except in places developed or designated for this purpose.
Yup, that's the exact clause cited on the ticket. This was along the campground access road, beyond the gate at Santa Clara Divide road, across from the envelope deposit slot. Some roadside turnouts along the campground loop currently have boulders placed in them and at some points along the access road there are posted "no parking" signs, but not at this particular pullout. I think I would've exercised a bit more caution if I hadn't asked first at Chilao visitor center and been told with a pink highlighter on a visitor map that you could park along that road. Another factor was having a six and seven year old along who wanted to go scrambling around on rocks, but didn't have much appetite for walking the whole road to the trailhead.Sean wrote: Does the ticket cite regulation 261.16m?
Driveways within developed recreation sites like Horse Flats might be regulated differently than main roads outside such sites. Were you inside the Horse Flats gate?§261.16 Developed recreation sites.
The following are prohibited:
(m) Operating or parking a motor vehicle or trailer except in places developed or designated for this purpose.
It's been many years since I last visited the spot and I remember in the past parking on a turnout in the campground loop. Maybe I've just been lucky in the past or maybe they were making extra rounds with all the visitors out this weekend. So you're probably right, once you cross the gate, you're in a campground zone that's managed according to those rules rather than a roadside trailhead. I also saw new signage at the campground gate indicating the saddle about .75 miles down Santa Clara Divide Road as an official trailhead for Mt. Hillyar, so maybe that's the officially preferred access now. In short, don't do what I did.
You might have a case if you can argue that your spot looked like a developed parking area. Was it a cleared, leveled, and shaped turnout? Or just the bank of the road?
Another argument might be that you didn't think you were in the developed recreation site yet, being across from the fee station and seeing no restriction sign there.
The relevant definition is:
Another argument might be that you didn't think you were in the developed recreation site yet, being across from the fee station and seeing no restriction sign there.
The relevant definition is:
So it's not exactly clear where the site begins, at the first gate or fee station.Developed recreation site means an area which has been improved or developed for recreation.