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Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:06 pm
by David R
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:25 pm
by Teejate
Yeah...this is a pretty big deal but with SO FEW DETAILS available I'm not sure how to feel about it.
I read the proposed bill and it's a lot of "this is what won't happen." It appears that the report about what will happen isn't due for another three years.
I did see that the BLM lands will be transferred to the NPS but I couldn't find anything in regards to the Wilderness areas. Might have missed it.
Also, there is no automatic funding that comes with the designation. The bill says a lot about increasing the economic value but doesn't go in to how that will take place.
My gut is telling me that 95% of whatever ends up taking place will be focused below 3K. Here's the bill if interested.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113h ... 4858ih.pdf
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:30 pm
by Uncle Rico
I believe this Bill, which must be approved by Congress, represents stage 2 of the plan which is to designate the San Gabes (or a least a portion of them) as a National Recreation Area much like the Santa Monicas. The National Monument designation, which is what is apparently happening Friday, doesn't require Congressional approval, but can be effectuated by Presidential declaration. I don't know all the technical differences from a funding and other standpoint between a National Monument and a National Recreation Area, but I have to assume that the NRA designation comes with more federal dollars, at least in theory.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:56 am
by Pat
The recreation act was the original proposal, but it has died in congress every time time it was brought up. Since Chu couldn't get that through, she changed direction and demanded the NM designation to bypass Congress, and apparently is going to get it. When people complain about the lack of info, she points out that hearings have been going on for 3 years. But those were all for the rec area designation, not a NM. Nobody knows what is going to happen. The Park Service isn't exactly overflowing with cash and I feel is more likely to close stuff off than deal with repairs/maintenance/safety/access. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll be sent Rangers with happy faces, trail crews, funds to keep all the camps open and a sniper to deal with whoever keeps tearing down all the signs in the Baldy area.
One difference between the two designations, a NM is restricted to Federal lands while a NRA is not.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:16 pm
by AW~
They had to ram it through so we could find out whats in it
Granted, this wasnt done at Christmas eve at midnight.
Here is what we do know: Every single national monument has an admission charge, including walk-ins. Every single national monument restricts access(which makes sense because who wants everyone to be crawling over a historical site like an Indian village).
Judy Chu said the signing allows "we" to make Eaton canyon safer(post Eaton canyon closure)....noting 5 deaths over the years.
http://www.sgvtribune.com/environment-a ... ent-friday
“We will put in much better safety measures in these kinds of areas,” Chu said.
You'd figure once the land grab was complete they would say how their new power will be pushed down on us....seeing as how this was so important to get done.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:21 pm
by AW~
Congresswoman Judy Chu (D-Monterey Park) says a new public/private partnership will be unveiled for the San Gabriel National Monument on Friday.
http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/10/08/472 ... -as-110th/
Looks like we will get an introduction to the new boss on Friday.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:32 pm
by Mike P
Teejate wrote: ↑Yeah...this is a pretty big deal but with SO FEW DETAILS available I'm not sure how to feel about it.
I read the proposed bill and it's a lot of "this is what won't happen." It appears that the report about what will happen isn't due for another three years.
I did see that the BLM lands will be transferred to the NPS but I couldn't find anything in regards to the Wilderness areas. Might have missed it.
Also, there is no automatic funding that comes with the designation. The bill says a lot about increasing the economic value but doesn't go in to how that will take place.
My gut is telling me that 95% of whatever ends up taking place will be focused below 3K. Here's the bill if interested.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113h ... 4858ih.pdf
The link is for the bill creating the San Gabriel Mountains NRA. I don't believe that applies here. Where is the bill for the SGM National Monument?
Can't find a map for the 350k+ acres that will become the NM...
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:22 pm
by Pat
Mike P wrote: ↑
The link is for the bill creating the San Gabriel Mountains NRA. I don't believe that applies here. Where is the bill for the SGM National Monument?
Can't find a map for the 350k+ acres that will become the NM...
Presidential decree, no bill, no congress, nada.
Maps? Guess we'll get an idea tomorrow, but who knows when we'll see anything official.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:15 pm
by HikeUp
Hey, our favorite mountain range is getting recognition and they have to pay to enter and dump their diapers in the rivers now. Yay?
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:05 am
by Uncle Rico
Here is what we do know: Every single national monument has an admission charge, including walk-ins.
This has not been my experience. For instance, I've been to Grand Staircase-Escalante NM and the Vermillion Cliffs NM without paying any entrance or other fee. I don't believe there is an entrance fee for the Carrizo Plains NM or the Santa Rosa/San Jacinto Mountains NM either. Have the rules changed or was I just a scofflaw?
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:43 am
by RichardK
Uncle Rico wrote: ↑Here is what we do know: Every single national monument has an admission charge, including walk-ins.
This has not been my experience. For instance, I've been to Grand Staircase-Escalante NM and the Vermillion Cliffs NM without paying any entrance or other fee. I don't believe there is an entrance fee for the Carrizo Plains NM or the Santa Rosa/San Jacinto Mountains NM either. Have the rules changed or was I just a scofflaw?
We did not pay an entrance fee when we visited the Devil's Postpile NM in 2008. We were there after Labor Day and, so, did not have to ride the shuttle. We drove the one lane road to the parking area.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:17 am
by AW~
I was thinking I could get into trouble for that statement hehehehe...I apologize for the error and retract it.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:33 am
by Uncle Rico
Yeah, no worries AW. I honestly didn't know what the deal was.
On an unrelated issue, here's some money for the new monument. Query why this money just couldn't have been raised and donated when the San Gabes were a mere national forest.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/10/ ... -monument/
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:58 am
by Uncle Rico
One more. Here's the incredibly detailed map of the monument.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default ... ument.jpeg
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:21 pm
by AW~
I have to admit I thought that the front range would be grabbed, but its not inside the monument on that map.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:34 pm
by Augie
My son's article for KCET's Departures in recognition of the Executive Order designating a substantial portion of the San Gabriel range as a National Monument.
http://www.kcet.org/socal/departures/sa ... ument.html
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:50 pm
by HikeUp
Odd that they excluded the SBNF portion of the east end of the range plus the Cucamonga Wilderness (I think).
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:02 pm
by Bobcat22
Like everyone else I wonder about a lot of things like if there will be fees. I was up at Baldy Thursday, maybe the last free day there apart from the adventure pass.
Hopefully the funding helps. And there are better protections for some areas. I hate seeing the garbage and graffiti when I leave the city.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:57 pm
by Taco
Well, I hope it all works out for the better. I doubt much will change, and I hope I wont get mad over it.
Hey, planning people who are doing this: don't charge for access.
PS: Hire me for security.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:07 am
by Edward
The Sierra Club seems to be for the national monument designation, and their priority is always preservation in a natural state. I do worry about a ban on dogs on trails, even leashed, which I believe we have in all national parks and all California state parks.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:07 pm
by Slowest_Hiker
Looks to me like Eaton isn't included, according to the map
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:25 am
by AW~
Slowest_Hiker wrote: ↑
Looks to me like Eaton isn't included, according to the map
http://ftp.fs.fed.us/visit/san-gabriel- ... l-monument
According to this website, both Echo mountain and Icehouse canyon are in the monument. I didnt see any website that has the actual legal boundaries....only the proclamation is on line.
The monument holds evidence of more than 8,000 years of human history, including more than 600 archeological sites, three of which are on the National Register of Historic Places, as well as ruins of old cabins and the Mount Lowe Railway.
Hikers head north on the 4.4-mile Icehouse Canyon Trail past ruins of a stone cabin from the early days of the Angeles National Forest. The area is now part of the San Gabriel Mountains National Monument.
Although the website also has a photo of Williamson Rock, which is closed as far as I know. Thus the website seems very dubious.
Mountain climbers enjoy the scenic beauty of the Williamson Rock area of the San Gabriel Mountains National Monument.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:53 am
by AW~
The official order with boundaries
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-10 ... -24849.pdf
"...thence northeasterly approximately 1.2 miles to a point, point located near the EW 1164 Section Corner of Sections 8 and 17,T.2N.,R.7W.
thence northeasterly approximately 0.50 mile to a point, point located near the C 1/4 Section Corner of Section 8, T.2N., R.7W.
thence northwesterly approximately 0.50 mile to a point at 8200 ft. elevation near Gold Ridge Mine, point located near the CNNW 1/16 Section
Corner of Section 8, T.2N., R.7W.
thence northerly 330ft. along the 8200 ft. elevation contour to theW l/16 Section Corner of Sections 5 and 8, T.2N.,R.7W., boundary in common
with the Angeles and San Bernardino National Forest....."
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:14 pm
by cougarmagic
Closer to earth, the San Dimas Experimental Forest, established in 1933 as a hydrologic laboratory, continues the study of some of our earliest and most comprehensively monitored research watersheds, providing crucial scientific insights.
In which we learned that napalm as a clear-cutting method to increase water flow to a city (so those pesky plants don't suck it all up) is maybe not the best idea. Luckily the learning continues.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:18 pm
by turtle
I've attempted to trace the National Monument boundary in KML and KMZ format. I've started a
separate thread where can hopefully converge on a map that is both accurate and more useful than the low resolution JPEGs typically released by the USFS.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:22 am
by AW~
Here is a source article for Chu
after the designation. Note: The interview took place before October 21....I think on Oct 16, or about one week after Obama.
http://www.alhambrasource.org/stories/c ... e-judy-chu
What are you most proud of accomplishing during your time in Congress?
I am the proudest of the naming of the San Gabriel Mountains as a national monument on Oct. 10. This is something that will have an impact on our area for decades to come, and it will have a positive impact on the 17 million people of Los Angeles County who live within 90 minutes of driving time to the San Gabriel Mountains. Now we can finally utilize it as the beautiful resource that it is.
Will the designation impact recreation?
In a positive way. Right now there are tremendous problems up there. There is trash and graffiti, not enough signage for trails, and safety hazards. In fact, people have fallen to their deaths at Eaton Canyon because of a lack of safety signs. But now we will finally get the resources that we need. On the day of the signing, there was $4.5 million committed to the San Gabriel Mountains.
I still have my bill to make the San Gabriel Mountains and rivers a National Recreation Area. It will cover more of the San Gabriel Valley region and ensure that not only the mountains but the rivers get the resources that they need for our local residents.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:37 pm
by HikeUp
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
fi's.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:59 pm
by Elwood
Is it me or has WILDCAD stopped updating the ANF page since 10/20 ?
N.b. working again 10/24/14 . Tinfoil hat back in drawer.
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:00 pm
by Mike P
The map of the San Gabriel Mountains National Monument, from our friends at the USFS:
San Gabriel Mountains National Monument
Re: Obama to designate chunk of San Gabriel Mountains a national
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:45 am
by JerryN
I wonder if that means the bear flat trail is going to open up sooner since the administration of the trail has now changed?
