Email today from Deb Burgess of Adams' Pack Station...
During the time prior to the Church bought the Camp, it had changed hands several times and, as stated in the Heritage of the Big Santa Anita: "If there ever was a time since 1901 when the future of Sturtevant's Camp was at doubt, this must have been it... As when Wilbur Sturtevant founded it, the chief asset of the camp was its superb location. But, would a prospective purchaser recognize a diamond in the rough?" Luckily, in 1945 the Southern California-Arizona Conference of the Methodist Church must have seen the potential and they purchased the camp, expanded it, and modernized it.
Well, the Camp's future is, once again, in doubt. There have been no plans developed (or announced) as to what will happen to this magical place. 2011 reservations (and I know there are several) will not be honored. New reservations will not be taken. Chris Kasten, during his almost 20 years as camp manager, has maintained the place is pristine condition. Repairs have been on-going and an ever watchful eye for problems has been a constant during those 20 years. Not to mention the welcoming smile of Chris and Joan every weekend. What will happen during the upcoming rainy season? When trees fall and cause damage, will it be repaired or will the camp begin to loose a little of itself to the rain? What about rodent damage, bear damage, and most importantly, human damage?
What can you do about it? The letter writing campaign of last year did not work. So, it appears that the number one item on the action plan is to find a buyer to save the Camp. Do you know people who would be interested in joining a group of investors? Who do you know that is a philanthropist looking for a project? Asking price is unknown and so interested parties will need to be proactive in assessing the Camp's worth. I do not have a contact number yet for the church. Here is a starting place:
110 S. Euclid Ave, Pasadena, Ca 91102-6006
(626) 568-7333
(800) 244-8622 x333
smiller@cal-pac.org
STURTEVANT'S CAMP FOR SALE!
So the Methodists have decided to discontinue using it as a retreat center and sell it? Shame especially since they've taken good care of it. I can't blame them; they probably can't make ends meet.
I wonder if the Sierra Club, Audobon Society, Nature Conservancy, etc. might be interested. Or perhaps another church. It really is a neat location. Or I guess it could return to the earth like so many others of that era.
I assume it's a private inholding and that the new owner would truly own the property (and not some kind of long term lease with the USFS like the cabin owners).
HJ
I wonder if the Sierra Club, Audobon Society, Nature Conservancy, etc. might be interested. Or perhaps another church. It really is a neat location. Or I guess it could return to the earth like so many others of that era.
I assume it's a private inholding and that the new owner would truly own the property (and not some kind of long term lease with the USFS like the cabin owners).
HJ
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PackerGreg
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The property for sale is above ground. The agreement with the Forest Service is called a 'Special Use Permit'. Terms of the permit are available from forest management, but I know that the permit for Adams' Pack Station, the lifeblood of the camp, is good until 2026.
In my opinion, the history of our mountains ought never be compromised.
You seem like a nice guy, Jim, but your comments make me think that you have visited the Bohemian Grove
In my opinion, the history of our mountains ought never be compromised.
You seem like a nice guy, Jim, but your comments make me think that you have visited the Bohemian Grove
In case anyone is confused by that, here is who patronizes Bohemian Grove:PackerGreg wrote:You seem like a nice guy, Jim, but your comments make me think that you have visited the Bohemian Grove
The membership list has included every Republican U.S. president since 1923 (as well as some Democrats), many cabinet officials, directors and CEOs of large corporations including major financial institutions. Major military contractors, oil companies, banks (including the Federal Reserve), utilities (including nuclear power) and national media (broadcast and print) have high-ranking officials as club members or guests.
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PackerGreg
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I was just poking fun at Jim, but I was also referring to The Wildlands Project (ala http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/)
Great video. It captured some famous, if now deceased, members.
My favorite quotes on the subject are both from Nixon, who joined in 1953, apparently hated it, but kept going back for more.
My favorite quotes on the subject are both from Nixon, who joined in 1953, apparently hated it, but kept going back for more.
The Bohemian Grove, that I attend from time to time—the Easterners and the others come there—but it is the most faggy goddamn thing you could ever imagine, that San Francisco crowd that goes in there; it's just terrible! I mean I won't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco.
If I were to choose the speech that gave me the most pleasure and satisfaction in my political career, it would be my Lakeside Speech at the Bohemian Grove in July 1967. Because this speech traditionally was off the record it received no publicity at the time. But in many important ways it marked the first milestone on my road to the presidency.
That is some funny shit...The Bohemian Grove, that I attend from time to time—the Easterners and the others come there—but it is the most faggy goddamn thing you could ever imagine, that San Francisco crowd that goes in there; it's just terrible! I mean I won't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco.
Ah, so it's not an inholding, not private property. One would just be paying for the structures but not the land underneath them. A bit less desireable I would think to a potential buyer.PackerGreg wrote:The property for sale is above ground. The agreement with the Forest Service is called a 'Special Use Permit'. Terms of the permit are available from forest management, but I know that the permit for Adams' Pack Station, the lifeblood of the camp, is good until 2026.
In my opinion, the history of our mountains ought never be compromised.
You seem like a nice guy, Jim, but your comments make me think that you have visited the Bohemian Grove
HJ
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PackerGreg
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No, this update from Gary Keene clearly states that the camp is almost certainly going up for sale, and that if you want to try to save the camp, pay for reservations - not so that the UMC can afford to keep it, but so that they can generate enough revenue to show potential buyers that the camp might be profitable.
Don't go by Chris... as much as he has deeply cared for Sturtevant's Camp, physically and emotionally, he is largely responsible for its economic failure.
To friends of Sturtevant:
You’ve heard before about the possibility of Sturtevant’s Camp being closed, sold, all kinds of rumors. Let me bring you up to date with the facts:
First: very much like the Pack Station, you can guess that operating Sturtevant has always been a tough go. While the site has benefitted greatly from Chris Kasten’s skilled and long-term committed care, the reality is the budget has almost always been in the red; if it was truly a business, the Camp would have had to shut down years ago. Instead, Sturtevant continues to be a ‘front porch ministry’ of the regional United Methodist Church , wholly dependent on support from other UMC campsites in southern California . However, that system of campsites is also running in the red, and is dependent on the regional budget of the UMC, which is itself supported by what people put in the offering plates on Sunday mornings. You can see where this is going…
Second: decision-making in the regional church is a lot like congress—lots of committees and layers of negotiating. Implementing any decision is like steering an aircraft carrier = s-l-o-w. Right now, an initial sub-committee recommendation has been made to cease operations at Sturtevant. However, there are plenty more decisions to made, much less steps to be taken before this could be implemented.
So, what can people who believe in the Camp do? Writing letters in support of the Camp to the committees responsible for figuring all this out is frankly meaningless. The A#1 question every committee member asked about those letters last year was, “Are any of those writer’s names on the reservation book for the Camp?” Almost entirely, no.
It should also be said that there are plenty of people inside the United Methodist Church who love this Camp and believe it has a unique value both to the Church and the public, and they are fighting hard for it. But it still takes dollars to keep it open, and just like in the rest of the world, those funds are increasingly in very short supply. We’re having to be creative and make hard decisions.
SO, the A#1 thing everyone who cares about the Camp can do is : make a reservation to stay at Camp; bring friends with you and persuade them to make their own reservations later. This will not solve the financial problem on its own: we’ve estimated that, for the Camp to run “in the black,” there would need to be a group of about 30+ people in Camp every weekend. We know this won’t happen (and we wouldn’t want it to happen—the load on the water and sewer systems would likely be too great.)
But it will signal those making the key decisions that there those who are committed enough to put their money where their mouth is. And if you’re willing to do that, you might be willing to do other more critical work we expect will be needed: to network to other resources far beyond the canyon (and the church) that could bring the support the Camp needs to remain viable in the future.
I’m repeating Deb’s posting of the reservation contact info; if you are interested in being more hands-on in support of the Camp, be in touch with me directly. We want to build a broad-based coalition that can bring the Camp the support it needs and deserves. Thanks for your interest,
Rev. Gary M. Keene
Executive Director of Connectional Ministries, California-Pacific Annual Conference, The United Methodist Church
P.O. Box 6006, Pasadena , CA 91102-6006 (626)568-07314
Camping ministries is under Gary ’s general responsibility for the Conference; he is also a former Manager of the Camp, and remains active on-site.
Don't go by Chris... as much as he has deeply cared for Sturtevant's Camp, physically and emotionally, he is largely responsible for its economic failure.
To friends of Sturtevant:
You’ve heard before about the possibility of Sturtevant’s Camp being closed, sold, all kinds of rumors. Let me bring you up to date with the facts:
First: very much like the Pack Station, you can guess that operating Sturtevant has always been a tough go. While the site has benefitted greatly from Chris Kasten’s skilled and long-term committed care, the reality is the budget has almost always been in the red; if it was truly a business, the Camp would have had to shut down years ago. Instead, Sturtevant continues to be a ‘front porch ministry’ of the regional United Methodist Church , wholly dependent on support from other UMC campsites in southern California . However, that system of campsites is also running in the red, and is dependent on the regional budget of the UMC, which is itself supported by what people put in the offering plates on Sunday mornings. You can see where this is going…
Second: decision-making in the regional church is a lot like congress—lots of committees and layers of negotiating. Implementing any decision is like steering an aircraft carrier = s-l-o-w. Right now, an initial sub-committee recommendation has been made to cease operations at Sturtevant. However, there are plenty more decisions to made, much less steps to be taken before this could be implemented.
So, what can people who believe in the Camp do? Writing letters in support of the Camp to the committees responsible for figuring all this out is frankly meaningless. The A#1 question every committee member asked about those letters last year was, “Are any of those writer’s names on the reservation book for the Camp?” Almost entirely, no.
It should also be said that there are plenty of people inside the United Methodist Church who love this Camp and believe it has a unique value both to the Church and the public, and they are fighting hard for it. But it still takes dollars to keep it open, and just like in the rest of the world, those funds are increasingly in very short supply. We’re having to be creative and make hard decisions.
SO, the A#1 thing everyone who cares about the Camp can do is : make a reservation to stay at Camp; bring friends with you and persuade them to make their own reservations later. This will not solve the financial problem on its own: we’ve estimated that, for the Camp to run “in the black,” there would need to be a group of about 30+ people in Camp every weekend. We know this won’t happen (and we wouldn’t want it to happen—the load on the water and sewer systems would likely be too great.)
But it will signal those making the key decisions that there those who are committed enough to put their money where their mouth is. And if you’re willing to do that, you might be willing to do other more critical work we expect will be needed: to network to other resources far beyond the canyon (and the church) that could bring the support the Camp needs to remain viable in the future.
I’m repeating Deb’s posting of the reservation contact info; if you are interested in being more hands-on in support of the Camp, be in touch with me directly. We want to build a broad-based coalition that can bring the Camp the support it needs and deserves. Thanks for your interest,
Rev. Gary M. Keene
Executive Director of Connectional Ministries, California-Pacific Annual Conference, The United Methodist Church
P.O. Box 6006, Pasadena , CA 91102-6006 (626)568-07314
Camping ministries is under Gary ’s general responsibility for the Conference; he is also a former Manager of the Camp, and remains active on-site.
Sounds like they need to communicate a little better with their camp manager then. I just tried calling 4 numbers listed to get info, and they all have recordings. I called Chris, and he picked right up. Makes you wonder who really is screwing up running the camp.
btw, it must be nice taking pot shots at people all the time... you must have great karma!
btw, it must be nice taking pot shots at people all the time... you must have great karma!
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PackerGreg
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MtnMan, mysterious Mr MtnMan,
Normally you only pipe up with "official information" or comments in defense of Jody Noiron, even though you claim not to be employed by the Forest Service. However, I have, as mentioned here once, suspected who you are. Your comments about Sturtevant's have encouraged me to suggest to others that you are Chris Fabbro.
That mostly incidental comment (be it correct or not) aside I will say that communications on the part of the UMC seem to be quite efficient. After all, even I wound up with Gary Keene's email in my inbox. And I never accused Chris Kasten of, as you put it, "screwing up running the camp." I said "he is largely responsible for its economic failure."
No one can deny how much labor Chris has put into Sturtevant's Camp, and I never suggested otherwise, but you should remember that he has been paid for his work. Do not confuse his employment with passion - don't get wrapped up in his persona.
If the UMC told Chris that they could keep the camp if they were to eliminate his salary, and his insurance, and his company truck, handsome grocery budget, Joan's stipend... yet he were invited to stay on as a volunteer weekend host, he would be GONE!! I don't begrudge a guy making a buck, but there are many who would love to voluntarily take charge of the camp - you know Chris only goes in on Friday and comes out on Sunday.
Still, this is not the problem to which I refer. Chris has had many opportunities to promote Sturtevant's Camp, yet he has declined. This has been glaringly obvious since Deb Burgess bought the pack station in April '06. She has brought one idea after another to him about drumming-up business and he has repeatedly shot them down. She has invited him to piggy-back on her substantial promotions, free of charge, and again he declined.
The bottom line is that Chris has treated Sturtevant's Camp like is personal hideaway since he became manager some 13, 14, 15 + years ago, and he thinks that because he does a good job of raking leaves that he is indispensable. He's telling you there's no problem because he is in denial, and his air of history stewardship is a put-on.
That was not a pot shot, it was decidedly aimed.
For everyone else, I haven't worked at Adams' Pack Station for almost two years, and they ain't got nothin' to do with my comments.
Normally you only pipe up with "official information" or comments in defense of Jody Noiron, even though you claim not to be employed by the Forest Service. However, I have, as mentioned here once, suspected who you are. Your comments about Sturtevant's have encouraged me to suggest to others that you are Chris Fabbro.
That mostly incidental comment (be it correct or not) aside I will say that communications on the part of the UMC seem to be quite efficient. After all, even I wound up with Gary Keene's email in my inbox. And I never accused Chris Kasten of, as you put it, "screwing up running the camp." I said "he is largely responsible for its economic failure."
No one can deny how much labor Chris has put into Sturtevant's Camp, and I never suggested otherwise, but you should remember that he has been paid for his work. Do not confuse his employment with passion - don't get wrapped up in his persona.
If the UMC told Chris that they could keep the camp if they were to eliminate his salary, and his insurance, and his company truck, handsome grocery budget, Joan's stipend... yet he were invited to stay on as a volunteer weekend host, he would be GONE!! I don't begrudge a guy making a buck, but there are many who would love to voluntarily take charge of the camp - you know Chris only goes in on Friday and comes out on Sunday.
Still, this is not the problem to which I refer. Chris has had many opportunities to promote Sturtevant's Camp, yet he has declined. This has been glaringly obvious since Deb Burgess bought the pack station in April '06. She has brought one idea after another to him about drumming-up business and he has repeatedly shot them down. She has invited him to piggy-back on her substantial promotions, free of charge, and again he declined.
The bottom line is that Chris has treated Sturtevant's Camp like is personal hideaway since he became manager some 13, 14, 15 + years ago, and he thinks that because he does a good job of raking leaves that he is indispensable. He's telling you there's no problem because he is in denial, and his air of history stewardship is a put-on.
That was not a pot shot, it was decidedly aimed.
For everyone else, I haven't worked at Adams' Pack Station for almost two years, and they ain't got nothin' to do with my comments.
please, don't insult me. I have a wife and SHE doesn't even like show tunes.PackerGreg wrote:MtnMan, mysterious Mr MtnMan,
Your comments about Sturtevant's have encouraged me to suggest to others that you are Chris Fabbro.
What is show tunes?MtnMan wrote:please, don't insult me. I have a wife and SHE doesn't even like show tunes.PackerGreg wrote:MtnMan, mysterious Mr MtnMan,
Your comments about Sturtevant's have encouraged me to suggest to others that you are Chris Fabbro.
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PackerGreg
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Now who's taking pot shots, Mr Karma? I notice you didn't deny my description of Chris Kasten's camp management?...
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EManBevHills
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Well I went up there today to check out the place since I had never been there before. It is an extraordinary diamond in the rough.
Chris and Joan were most hospitable, and the facility appeared in good order and well maintained. They appear to have treated it with reverence, gratitude, and appreciation — not to mention hard work — and were apparently good and conscientious stewards of the property for approximately 20 years.
However, as a business, it has been, and is likely to remain, problematic. It appears that the primary challenge is how to increase revenues sufficiently. Although I did not ask to review the financials, I could readily see how it would be difficult to make this facility into a moneymaking proposition without volunteer caretakers and/or a charitable subsidy.
Nevertheless, the property has outstanding appeal. A conversation with one of the owners of the Pack Station suggested that there was considerable interest percolating. Lets all hope that this gem will be preserved, for it is the last of its kind.
It sure would be a shame for it to degrade without proper love and attention — or disappear forever.
Chris and Joan were most hospitable, and the facility appeared in good order and well maintained. They appear to have treated it with reverence, gratitude, and appreciation — not to mention hard work — and were apparently good and conscientious stewards of the property for approximately 20 years.
However, as a business, it has been, and is likely to remain, problematic. It appears that the primary challenge is how to increase revenues sufficiently. Although I did not ask to review the financials, I could readily see how it would be difficult to make this facility into a moneymaking proposition without volunteer caretakers and/or a charitable subsidy.
Nevertheless, the property has outstanding appeal. A conversation with one of the owners of the Pack Station suggested that there was considerable interest percolating. Lets all hope that this gem will be preserved, for it is the last of its kind.
It sure would be a shame for it to degrade without proper love and attention — or disappear forever.
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PackerGreg
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Update as of December 16th, just sent to me by Deb Burgess:
"Thanks to all the folks who have expressed their interest and support in Sturtevant Camp . Here’s the latest information, qualified with a lot of “ifs”:
First, the United Methodist Church ’s Board of Camping, which is responsible for Sturtevant , has cancelled the action to cease operation of the Camp at the end of the year. This is largely due to the receipt of an anonymous gift that will support the operation of the Camp through at least the first half of 2011. More on that later.
Even with this good news, it is not a smooth trail into the future. The first uphill climb starts with Chris Kasten finishing his extraordinary and invaluable 20 years of service as manager of the Camp on Dec.31st. More on that, also, later, but the immediate issue is practical care of the Camp:
In the interim, the Church is contracting with Deb Burgess at Adams’ Pack Station to provide for weekly security and technical maintenance. In addition, volunteers who have worked behind the scenes at the Camp in the past will be stepping up to provide simple hospitality at Camp for the weekends. Although we won’t be ready to host people and groups overnight just yet, hikers will continue to be greeted with a warm smile and a welcoming hello (cookies may come later!)
The next uphill comes in January, when the Board will review a strategic plan for the future of the Camp. If that plan is approved, then the goal will be to begin implementing the plan right away, including a revised management and operations system, as well as serious marketing, programming and fund development. Again, more to come.
The steeper part of the climb is likely to be the Camp’s USFS permit: while the permit itself is not in question, a new rate structure could seriously challenge our best hopes for the future. More on that—oh, you know.
If everything goes forward positively, then the Camp office will resume taking reservations—hopefully in time for spring. For now, requests and contact names are being added to a waiting list: contact Michelle Corbett at mcorbett@cal-pac.org or call 626-568-7333.
The mere existence, much less the operation of Sturtevant ’s Camp has always been a fragile enterprise. And yet it has endured for well over a century. Stay tuned here for more information and updates (or search “Wilbur Sturtevant ” on Facebook, and friend the old coot—he needs all he can get, and breaking news will be posted there.) Thanks to everyone, and stay tuned!
Rev. Gary Keene, Executive Director of Connectional Ministries, California-Pacific Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church "
"Thanks to all the folks who have expressed their interest and support in Sturtevant Camp . Here’s the latest information, qualified with a lot of “ifs”:
First, the United Methodist Church ’s Board of Camping, which is responsible for Sturtevant , has cancelled the action to cease operation of the Camp at the end of the year. This is largely due to the receipt of an anonymous gift that will support the operation of the Camp through at least the first half of 2011. More on that later.
Even with this good news, it is not a smooth trail into the future. The first uphill climb starts with Chris Kasten finishing his extraordinary and invaluable 20 years of service as manager of the Camp on Dec.31st. More on that, also, later, but the immediate issue is practical care of the Camp:
In the interim, the Church is contracting with Deb Burgess at Adams’ Pack Station to provide for weekly security and technical maintenance. In addition, volunteers who have worked behind the scenes at the Camp in the past will be stepping up to provide simple hospitality at Camp for the weekends. Although we won’t be ready to host people and groups overnight just yet, hikers will continue to be greeted with a warm smile and a welcoming hello (cookies may come later!)
The next uphill comes in January, when the Board will review a strategic plan for the future of the Camp. If that plan is approved, then the goal will be to begin implementing the plan right away, including a revised management and operations system, as well as serious marketing, programming and fund development. Again, more to come.
The steeper part of the climb is likely to be the Camp’s USFS permit: while the permit itself is not in question, a new rate structure could seriously challenge our best hopes for the future. More on that—oh, you know.
If everything goes forward positively, then the Camp office will resume taking reservations—hopefully in time for spring. For now, requests and contact names are being added to a waiting list: contact Michelle Corbett at mcorbett@cal-pac.org or call 626-568-7333.
The mere existence, much less the operation of Sturtevant ’s Camp has always been a fragile enterprise. And yet it has endured for well over a century. Stay tuned here for more information and updates (or search “Wilbur Sturtevant ” on Facebook, and friend the old coot—he needs all he can get, and breaking news will be posted there.) Thanks to everyone, and stay tuned!
Rev. Gary Keene, Executive Director of Connectional Ministries, California-Pacific Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church "
I went up Saturday and did the Zion Loop. En route, I stopped in at Sturtevant Camp. First time actually stopping. Bob, the volunteer host, was most welcoming. It's a really lovely site -- Wilbur Sturtevant had good taste. He said that they weren't taking reservations just yet but that they planned to start soon, perhaps April and that it would probably be about $40.00/night per person.
Neat spot. I might have to take my (non camping) wife up there some time.
HJ
Neat spot. I might have to take my (non camping) wife up there some time.
HJ