Guys,
After I read here posts talking about Class 1, 2 ....I got curious. I started reading about YDS in "Mountaineering: Freedom of the hills" and am looking for some input.
This system divides hikes/climbs in 5 fives classes:
Class 1: walking
Class 2: simple scrambling
Class 3: scrambling where rope is carried but not required
Class 4: climbing where rope is often used
Class 5: technical climbing involving rope, belaying etc.
What class would you rate the following trails?
1) Baldy bowl to Baldy summit. Class 2?
2) Bear Flats to Baldy summit. Class 1?
3) Icehouse to Cucamonga Peak summit. Class 2?
4) Vivian Creek to Gorgonio Peak summit. Class 2?
5) Whitney portal to Mt Whitney summit. Class 3?
Thanks for your time.
Al.
PS: I am not sure if this post should be in "Questions and Comments" or somewhere like "General Discussion". Feel free to move it if need be.
Yosemite Decimal System (YDS)
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kristo5747
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:09 pm
Straight up? I did not know it could be done...Actually, I meant on the trail. Oh, I forgotmattmaxon wrote:Well for my money 1&2 are correctly rated, Assuming By "Baldy Bowl" you mean straight up and not on the trail
the other 3 are class 1 IMO
Register Ridge->Mt Hardwood->Baldy Summit: class 2 (for me, anyway).
Although I have not done Whitney, I hear it is pretty rough. Class 2 seemed appropriate.
1) Baldy bowl to Baldy summit. Class 2?
Class 1 if you're on the trail. Class 2-3 if you are going straight up the bowl or via a chute.
2) Bear Flats to Baldy summit. Class 1?
Correct.
3) Icehouse to Cucamonga Peak summit. Class 2?
Class 1.
4) Vivian Creek to Gorgonio Peak summit. Class 2?
Class 1.
5) Whitney portal to Mt Whitney summit. Class 3?
Main Trail Class 1. Mountaineers Route Class 3.
Register Ridge is not a maintained trail so i would consider it Class 2 since you must pay attention to the route-finding.
All this changes significantly under winter conditions. Winter skills of knowing when/how to travel in crampons and how to self-arrest with an ice axe are necessary.
Class 1 if you're on the trail. Class 2-3 if you are going straight up the bowl or via a chute.
2) Bear Flats to Baldy summit. Class 1?
Correct.
3) Icehouse to Cucamonga Peak summit. Class 2?
Class 1.
4) Vivian Creek to Gorgonio Peak summit. Class 2?
Class 1.
5) Whitney portal to Mt Whitney summit. Class 3?
Main Trail Class 1. Mountaineers Route Class 3.
Register Ridge is not a maintained trail so i would consider it Class 2 since you must pay attention to the route-finding.
All this changes significantly under winter conditions. Winter skills of knowing when/how to travel in crampons and how to self-arrest with an ice axe are necessary.
Um, nice X-Ray, Norma. 
How are you doing?
In terms of the YDS, generally anything on a trail is class one, so all of the trails you listed are class one.
I tend to think of the YDS in terms of skills required:
Class one: Walking either on trail or off, no use of hands.
Class two: Generally walking off trail in rougher terrain, hands may be used for balance but not to climb.
Class three: Hands are used for upward movement, not just for balance. Holds are relatively plentiful and fairly obvious. Very little technical skill if any is required.
Class four: Hands are used for climbing. Holds are fewer and less obvious. Technical skills are required.
Class five: Hands are used for climbing. Holds are fewer still and handholds may be nearly indiscernible. Strong technical skills are required.
Yeah, I know that the original YDS includes use of rope and amount of exposure. I think that something can be class three and highly exposed whereas something else can be class five but have little exposure. Lumping exposure and technical difficulty in the same measure doesn't really work. Just my (rather ill informed) opinion.
HJ
How are you doing?In terms of the YDS, generally anything on a trail is class one, so all of the trails you listed are class one.
I tend to think of the YDS in terms of skills required:
Class one: Walking either on trail or off, no use of hands.
Class two: Generally walking off trail in rougher terrain, hands may be used for balance but not to climb.
Class three: Hands are used for upward movement, not just for balance. Holds are relatively plentiful and fairly obvious. Very little technical skill if any is required.
Class four: Hands are used for climbing. Holds are fewer and less obvious. Technical skills are required.
Class five: Hands are used for climbing. Holds are fewer still and handholds may be nearly indiscernible. Strong technical skills are required.
Yeah, I know that the original YDS includes use of rope and amount of exposure. I think that something can be class three and highly exposed whereas something else can be class five but have little exposure. Lumping exposure and technical difficulty in the same measure doesn't really work. Just my (rather ill informed) opinion.
HJ
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kristo5747
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:09 pm
Sounds like a lot of fun. I'd love to try it. Would you typically start from the Ski hut?norma r wrote:1) Baldy bowl to Baldy summit. Class 2?
Class 1 if you're on the trail. Class 2-3 if you are going straight up the bowl or via a chute.
Some caution advised..for example Smith Mountain listed as class 1
http://angeles.sierraclub.org/hps/guides/15b.htm
" follow a use trail south along a firebreak up to the summit"
that aint no exaggeration either.
http://angeles.sierraclub.org/hps/guides/15b.htm
" follow a use trail south along a firebreak up to the summit"
that aint no exaggeration either.
Oh, and the assignment of classes can be a little bit different region by region.
Norman Clyde and others of his ilk would go up routes in the Sierra and call it class three, but by today's standards we'd probably call it class 4. However, since the giants of climbing assigned those numbers, no one is really wanting to reclassify those routes, and to keep things somewhat consistent, routes that might be a 4 elsewhere are a 3 in California.
In Colorado, with it's different history, routes that are a 3 in California are called 4 there. When I've been out there and people find out I'm from California, and I ask about routes and such, they'll say "oh, that's a class four" and then hurriedly add "but that would be a three in California."
HJ
Norman Clyde and others of his ilk would go up routes in the Sierra and call it class three, but by today's standards we'd probably call it class 4. However, since the giants of climbing assigned those numbers, no one is really wanting to reclassify those routes, and to keep things somewhat consistent, routes that might be a 4 elsewhere are a 3 in California.
In Colorado, with it's different history, routes that are a 3 in California are called 4 there. When I've been out there and people find out I'm from California, and I ask about routes and such, they'll say "oh, that's a class four" and then hurriedly add "but that would be a three in California."
HJ
under ideal conditionsTacoDelRio wrote:All ratings are subjective/relative, they're only meant to be a general guide to relative difficulty.
Yes, if you go with Taco, you'll be subjected to heavy rockfall which may cause the difficulty to increase. Try to stay wide to the left or right of Taco, and you should be fine. Note: please carry bandages and medical supplies. (not for you, for Taco of course)mattmaxon wrote:under ideal conditionsTacoDelRio wrote:All ratings are subjective/relative, they're only meant to be a general guide to relative difficulty.
HJ
Sometimes, maybe. But only on certain days, with certain conditions, and even then...mattmaxon wrote:under ideal conditionsTacoDelRio wrote:All ratings are subjective/relative, they're only meant to be a general guide to relative difficulty.
i agree with this and all the other serious posts. i mentioned RR as class 2 since there isn't a well defined trail, it's truly a footpath created by those that know it. i always tend to think of going cross-country as Class 2, not because you use your hands but you have to use your skills of navigation since there isn't usually a trail. so again, that's subjective. maybe we need a Class 1.aTacoDelRio wrote:All ratings are subjective/relative, they're only meant to be a general guide to relative difficulty.
j/k Kristo, to do the Ski Hut Trail as long as you know where to access it off the fire road it's pretty straight forward to follow. you can find TR's and photos on this board and all over the net. plus on weekends in good weather there's usually other hikers to follow from Manker Flat (that's assuming they know their way.) to go up the bowl in the summer you do not ascend directly from the ski hut as the first gully is a looser than crap route to avoid. you go out into the bowl and hope you don't become target practice for falling rocks. it's pretty much one step forward, two steps back on scree which makes it not the first choice of many. but come winter, it's a different story for those that love a steep snow climb and are prepared and skilled.
HJ,
that's not really my x-ray. i broke my L foot, but i found the image on a website. it fit the pixel parameters for an avatar and pretty much looks like my Fx. i'll have another x-ray and see the MD on Monday and will find out how it's doing. hopefully i am 1/2 way through recovery.
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EManBevHills
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:40 am
Maybe we need to add R or X to the local class 1 and 2 hiking grades to better describe the probability that Taco would be a rock magnet --
or perhaps to indicate the possibility of being ambushed by rent a ninjas.....
Glad that's not your left foot, Norma.
or perhaps to indicate the possibility of being ambushed by rent a ninjas.....
Glad that's not your left foot, Norma.
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kristo5747
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:09 pm
Seems obvious conclusion based on everybody's input. What would seem a class 3 to my flabby self is probably a class 1 to norma, HJ or Taco........TacoDelRio wrote:All ratings are subjective/relative, they're only meant to be a general guide to relative difficulty.
Although I did Baldy bowl via ski hut trail a few times, I never considered the possibility of doing *off* trail. Sounds like a good idea for a summer climb. I'd love to do in winter too but I'd need to practise self-arrest beforehand.norma r wrote:... to go up the bowl in the summer you do not ascend directly from the ski hut as the first gully is a looser than crap route to avoid. you go out into the bowl and hope you don't become target practice for falling rocks. it's pretty much one step forward, two steps back on scree which makes it not the first choice of many. but come winter, it's a different story for those that love a steep snow climb and are prepared and skilled.?
I wouldn't go as far as to say class 3 is class 1 for a climber or something. More like easy fifth class (up to 5.5ish) is 4th class'ed (no rope) for lotsa climbers.
Hard to convey this. I'm also the last person who should try to explain anything.
Hard to convey this. I'm also the last person who should try to explain anything.
believe me, with each week i keep thinking about that more and more! in fact if i had a partner, we could do wheelbarrow. i walk on my hands, you hold my legs up when i get tired! (it'll be 4 weeks on the DL tomorrow. i'm going stir crazy!)TacoDelRio wrote:Has anyone ever ascended Baldy walking on their hands the whole way? 8)
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kristo5747
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:09 pm
....Zé??TacoDelRio wrote:Has anyone ever ascended Baldy walking on their hands the whole way? 8)
