20090317 Snow Creek
Brought more food this time, as last time I went up, I only brought some yakisoba, just a single meal. Still felt completely depleted near the top, and then I was running on training by the time we hit the tram station.
First pics, then info.
Zach at the tunnel
Looking up at Folly and San J
Alex taking a break
Snow or something, I can't tell as the image is too small on photobucket.
Zach chills
Moving towards the chockstone
Alex freesoling the 5.5 next to the chockstone
Zach nearing the route
See Alex?
Thin ice, just a random shot on some rocks
Up, something we didn't run out of for a while.
Looking back
TEAM GINGERFORCE
More up
Alex making water
In orbit
Words:
We started from the cars at 0210, hiking up the road. We heeded 'J's advice and passed the shack instead of XC'ing around it. We walked around looking for the trail to the isthmus for a while, and eventually just went XC up the hill and hit the trail. We would gain and lose this trail many times today.
Took the trail to the area near the tunnel, which takes you through the bushwhacking. I should have taken charge and lead to the tunnel, but I did not, and I feel I am responsible for us getting lost in the plantlife for a while. We lost an hour or so bushwhacking through very thick plants. I was too passive and did not say "This is f*ing stupid, let's move out, assess, and find the tunnel". Find the tunnel and go through it. Do not ever "try" to find it through bushwhacking, just find it and avoid bushwhacking. 'J' said that if you don't find the tunnel, you may as well head back. He is right.
We dropped in. At this point, my job as a sort of guide for the area (this being my second time up Snow Creek) is essentially done, as the rest is easy routefinding. Rested, moved towards the chockstone. Had breakfast/chow prior to the chockstone. Alex moved up afterwards and freesolo'ed the chockstone. I chose to go up the class 3 bypass like last time. A fall here would be a poor decision (it's a decision at this point), as your team would have to take you back down to the guard station. The primary thing that comes to mind is access... the water people would probably restrict access to Snow Creek much more than previously.
Zach moved up with me after he gave the 5.5 a shot. The 3rd class bypass takes a while. We arrived at the top of the chockstone, but no Alex. He was far up the couloir, in view. I sent him a text message to tell him to slow down (cell service is available on route). Zach and I geared up, and headed up for the loooong slog that is Snow Creek Proper.
A glove flew down, which I grabbed. Met Alex up ahead. I went my usual snail's pace which I've earned through training (always slow, just me and my joints that are held together with hopes and dreams). Zach and I did a Ginger Charge up the mountain.
Eventually took a break near the final fork (so I think). We moved up and eventually Alex split off to get up faster. Zach and I kept going for the longest time, but we both became exhausted. Reaching the top of a ridge, we took another break (lots of breaks at this point due to exhaustion), yelled for Alex, I blew my whistle, etc.
Alex hit the summit at 1730. Zach and I didn't care to go to the top of San J, so no summit for us, except that highpoint to the east of San J. We hobbled down, calling for Alex, making headway for the Tram Station.
We both had many cramps and other problems the whole way back, aside from being destroyed. We stayed together the whole time, as any more splitting-off business would be retarded. We ran into what I assume was a German couple. I asked them when the last tram leaves, they said 2145. Big sigh of relief, as it was a little after 1900, and I thought last tram was at 1930 or something. I'm surprised they didn't hear my whistle.
We got to the tram station, where I purchased $19.30 of food, which would be a feast where sane people stock food, but up here it meant a small fruit punch gatorade, a chicken caeser salad, and a small cranberry turkey salad sandwich. It was good, and I was craving a salad, which makes my sexual orientation questionable in some circles.
My phone dies completely in cold-ish weather, so it was down for the count, and still is (charging). Zach's is fine. Alex sent him a message saying he'd gotten to the summit at 1730. Alex decided to go to the cabin up there to spend the night, sans food or bivy gear. We thought he was in there sending the messages, but he couldn't find it in the dark. Anywho, Alex will add more on this when he gets back. He said he was fine, no need for SAR/RMRU.
We went on the next tram down, where Zach's friend was able to pick us up and take us to our car, and outta town.
More later, added by Zach and Alex.
I know I've broken these rules before, and "nobody is perfect" (a retarded excuse), but I have some "tips" or pointers that are important, and should have been followed.
1. Moving as a team means moving as a team, from start to finish, all the time, the whole time. A group should decide on this or otherwise at the START of the day. A group can split up as we did, no problem, but we did not decide on this. It turned out to be a pair and a solo climber at the end, and communicating through means that aren't face to face in the mountains is unreliable.
2. As a team, move at a good pace that the slowest person can maintain. Never move more than earshot away from the other team members. Those in the military obviously know about working as a team. Never leave a man behind, etc. Follow this until the end of everything, period. I was left behind a few times on my last trip up here, as I was hit by rockfall before we hit any snow, which caused my leg to seize up and slowed me down considerably. I then ate with everyone else, but everyone else packed up and left while I was halfway through cooking. I ended up having to play catch-up that time, yelling to find the way through the bypass, though I was supposed to climb the 5.5 section roped and protected. One man left behind means the team is no longer a team.
3. If something is wrong, speak up. Don't worry about hurting people's feelings. I typically pride myself on how I typically say what I mean, how I mean it, etc, and not caring about offending anyone, as that would be their problem and not mine. I did not speak up, as I should have lead us to the tunnel in the brush. This is why I take responsibility for our getting lost in the thick brush and Scrub Oak trees for a long time trying to find the trail, even though I was not in the lead. I did not take the lead. That is the bottom line. Take the initiative.
Out of this, I am changing the way I do things from now on. If I ever have to "guide" (bear with me on terms, not saying I'm AMGA or paid!) a team up, I will take full responsibility for the group. That means from start to finish, and by finish, I mean the cars. Everyone must be in full understanding of what's going on at all times, where everyone is at all times, etc etc. I learned many of these things as a Soldier, and I am disappointed in myself for not being disciplined enough to follow my training and knowledge.
There is more to this, and I will add more as time goes by.
First pics, then info.
Zach at the tunnel
Looking up at Folly and San J
Alex taking a break
Snow or something, I can't tell as the image is too small on photobucket.
Zach chills
Moving towards the chockstone
Alex freesoling the 5.5 next to the chockstone
Zach nearing the route
See Alex?
Thin ice, just a random shot on some rocks
Up, something we didn't run out of for a while.
Looking back
TEAM GINGERFORCE
More up
Alex making water
In orbit
Words:
We started from the cars at 0210, hiking up the road. We heeded 'J's advice and passed the shack instead of XC'ing around it. We walked around looking for the trail to the isthmus for a while, and eventually just went XC up the hill and hit the trail. We would gain and lose this trail many times today.
Took the trail to the area near the tunnel, which takes you through the bushwhacking. I should have taken charge and lead to the tunnel, but I did not, and I feel I am responsible for us getting lost in the plantlife for a while. We lost an hour or so bushwhacking through very thick plants. I was too passive and did not say "This is f*ing stupid, let's move out, assess, and find the tunnel". Find the tunnel and go through it. Do not ever "try" to find it through bushwhacking, just find it and avoid bushwhacking. 'J' said that if you don't find the tunnel, you may as well head back. He is right.
We dropped in. At this point, my job as a sort of guide for the area (this being my second time up Snow Creek) is essentially done, as the rest is easy routefinding. Rested, moved towards the chockstone. Had breakfast/chow prior to the chockstone. Alex moved up afterwards and freesolo'ed the chockstone. I chose to go up the class 3 bypass like last time. A fall here would be a poor decision (it's a decision at this point), as your team would have to take you back down to the guard station. The primary thing that comes to mind is access... the water people would probably restrict access to Snow Creek much more than previously.
Zach moved up with me after he gave the 5.5 a shot. The 3rd class bypass takes a while. We arrived at the top of the chockstone, but no Alex. He was far up the couloir, in view. I sent him a text message to tell him to slow down (cell service is available on route). Zach and I geared up, and headed up for the loooong slog that is Snow Creek Proper.
A glove flew down, which I grabbed. Met Alex up ahead. I went my usual snail's pace which I've earned through training (always slow, just me and my joints that are held together with hopes and dreams). Zach and I did a Ginger Charge up the mountain.
Eventually took a break near the final fork (so I think). We moved up and eventually Alex split off to get up faster. Zach and I kept going for the longest time, but we both became exhausted. Reaching the top of a ridge, we took another break (lots of breaks at this point due to exhaustion), yelled for Alex, I blew my whistle, etc.
Alex hit the summit at 1730. Zach and I didn't care to go to the top of San J, so no summit for us, except that highpoint to the east of San J. We hobbled down, calling for Alex, making headway for the Tram Station.
We both had many cramps and other problems the whole way back, aside from being destroyed. We stayed together the whole time, as any more splitting-off business would be retarded. We ran into what I assume was a German couple. I asked them when the last tram leaves, they said 2145. Big sigh of relief, as it was a little after 1900, and I thought last tram was at 1930 or something. I'm surprised they didn't hear my whistle.
We got to the tram station, where I purchased $19.30 of food, which would be a feast where sane people stock food, but up here it meant a small fruit punch gatorade, a chicken caeser salad, and a small cranberry turkey salad sandwich. It was good, and I was craving a salad, which makes my sexual orientation questionable in some circles.
My phone dies completely in cold-ish weather, so it was down for the count, and still is (charging). Zach's is fine. Alex sent him a message saying he'd gotten to the summit at 1730. Alex decided to go to the cabin up there to spend the night, sans food or bivy gear. We thought he was in there sending the messages, but he couldn't find it in the dark. Anywho, Alex will add more on this when he gets back. He said he was fine, no need for SAR/RMRU.
We went on the next tram down, where Zach's friend was able to pick us up and take us to our car, and outta town.
More later, added by Zach and Alex.
I know I've broken these rules before, and "nobody is perfect" (a retarded excuse), but I have some "tips" or pointers that are important, and should have been followed.
1. Moving as a team means moving as a team, from start to finish, all the time, the whole time. A group should decide on this or otherwise at the START of the day. A group can split up as we did, no problem, but we did not decide on this. It turned out to be a pair and a solo climber at the end, and communicating through means that aren't face to face in the mountains is unreliable.
2. As a team, move at a good pace that the slowest person can maintain. Never move more than earshot away from the other team members. Those in the military obviously know about working as a team. Never leave a man behind, etc. Follow this until the end of everything, period. I was left behind a few times on my last trip up here, as I was hit by rockfall before we hit any snow, which caused my leg to seize up and slowed me down considerably. I then ate with everyone else, but everyone else packed up and left while I was halfway through cooking. I ended up having to play catch-up that time, yelling to find the way through the bypass, though I was supposed to climb the 5.5 section roped and protected. One man left behind means the team is no longer a team.
3. If something is wrong, speak up. Don't worry about hurting people's feelings. I typically pride myself on how I typically say what I mean, how I mean it, etc, and not caring about offending anyone, as that would be their problem and not mine. I did not speak up, as I should have lead us to the tunnel in the brush. This is why I take responsibility for our getting lost in the thick brush and Scrub Oak trees for a long time trying to find the trail, even though I was not in the lead. I did not take the lead. That is the bottom line. Take the initiative.
Out of this, I am changing the way I do things from now on. If I ever have to "guide" (bear with me on terms, not saying I'm AMGA or paid!) a team up, I will take full responsibility for the group. That means from start to finish, and by finish, I mean the cars. Everyone must be in full understanding of what's going on at all times, where everyone is at all times, etc etc. I learned many of these things as a Soldier, and I am disappointed in myself for not being disciplined enough to follow my training and knowledge.
There is more to this, and I will add more as time goes by.
Zach, Alex, Ryan - Team GingerForce AKA "Superstuds".
I'm glad you guys made it up and back ok. Well, at least 2/3'rds of you all. I'll chat with "you know who" later.
Ryan - Glad to see you back in the game.
Zach - I love your approach boots.
Alex - You're a madman. Next stop Shasta. Just a few more weeks and we there.
Nice pics and TR.
Ryan - Your important points are right on track. You learn these things from experience. I've already been there, and I've already done that. Move as a team. Stick together as a team. Walk out as a team. If you don't make the summit, or your goal, it'll be there for next time.
The young will learn this over time or the hard way, jsut as I have. I just hope they learn quick.
I'm glad you guys made it up and back ok. Well, at least 2/3'rds of you all. I'll chat with "you know who" later.
Ryan - Glad to see you back in the game.
Zach - I love your approach boots.
Alex - You're a madman. Next stop Shasta. Just a few more weeks and we there.
Nice pics and TR.
Ryan - Your important points are right on track. You learn these things from experience. I've already been there, and I've already done that. Move as a team. Stick together as a team. Walk out as a team. If you don't make the summit, or your goal, it'll be there for next time.
The young will learn this over time or the hard way, jsut as I have. I just hope they learn quick.
Great report TACO - super pictures.
I agree with the leading and organizing - typically you can do seperation if it's planned ahead of time, with stops that allow the others to catch up and reassess conditions, how climbers are doing, and what the current needs are but just going for it can be such a bad idea.
It's good to see you are willing to say this out loud and publicly, lessons learned can be life safing in the future.
By the way, I want to go next year and would love a little map of the chock stone bypass, class five is more than I want to do for now, but class three is in my range.
Way to go Zach - hope to read your report later today.
I agree with the leading and organizing - typically you can do seperation if it's planned ahead of time, with stops that allow the others to catch up and reassess conditions, how climbers are doing, and what the current needs are but just going for it can be such a bad idea.
It's good to see you are willing to say this out loud and publicly, lessons learned can be life safing in the future.
By the way, I want to go next year and would love a little map of the chock stone bypass, class five is more than I want to do for now, but class three is in my range.
Way to go Zach - hope to read your report later today.
406, Pat,
If you need someone for next year, I'm already OK to go again.
ALSO, I must add...
We did NOT have any run-ins with the water district folks at all. I consider this to be luck. There was a patrol moving through the area after we got up on the isthmus (low ridge just above the water place).
If you need someone for next year, I'm already OK to go again.
ALSO, I must add...
We did NOT have any run-ins with the water district folks at all. I consider this to be luck. There was a patrol moving through the area after we got up on the isthmus (low ridge just above the water place).
- Cy Kaicener
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:19 am
Those were great pictures - Wow - and a super trip report
Great report!
I am reading the book Nanda Devi right now and John Roskelley is concerned about the expedition since the team is not working as a team. here you are Taco, confirming that same discipline missing for you on Snow Creek impacted your feelings of success. you chalk it up to a lesson learned and hopefully those reading will learn from your words. i for one will.
thanx for being so honest.
I am reading the book Nanda Devi right now and John Roskelley is concerned about the expedition since the team is not working as a team. here you are Taco, confirming that same discipline missing for you on Snow Creek impacted your feelings of success. you chalk it up to a lesson learned and hopefully those reading will learn from your words. i for one will.
thanx for being so honest.
I can't say I enjoyed the route as much as I thought I would. The approach killed it for me. That and the back to back to back nights of no sleep... and ghetto footwear, oh and running out of food. This all comes down to underestimating the magnitude of the climb to be honest. Taco's report is pretty accurate to my own feelings.
Fell asleep twice on the drive back, you'd think after being scared shitless the first time it happened it would have kept me awake... nope. Made it home with my eyes half-shut...
That being said: NF San J would be an awesome over-nighter. Contemplating it, but probably not any time soon.
Fell asleep twice on the drive back, you'd think after being scared shitless the first time it happened it would have kept me awake... nope. Made it home with my eyes half-shut...
That being said: NF San J would be an awesome over-nighter. Contemplating it, but probably not any time soon.
Well...
Don't beat yourself up too much Ryan. You were an invaluable resource and I think we owe any success to your route finding. I personally have no desire to be "guided" up a mountain military fashion. A text message stating that you'd bailed would have been nice so I wouldn't have waited at the summit, but all in all I think we handled it pretty well. Personal responsibility is important too.
Not sure how far up you guys made it, but probably the last 1000' was the worst kind of soft snow ever. I had to bang off my crampons every couple steps. Probably would have had more fun with a shovel rather than an ice axe. It was a real test of will. Thankfully, it was deep enough to be fairly secure.
While I was waiting, I also did the rounds on top and hit maybe Jean's Peak and Miller Peak. Those are close, right?
My cabin bivy was pretty funny and rather hard to find in the dark. Ran out of fuel after melting a liter of water, so canned (and frozen) food was off limits. Ate a MRE and watched mice climb on things for a while. Stuffed a sleeping bag into another one and hit the sack(s). I was up at 6 and started down Snow Creek shortly thereafter. It took some doing and somewhere around 330 I finally made it back to my truck. I'm sure with a proper breakfast and proper hydration that could have been much faster, but I wouldn't say I had either. Hence, I took my time and stepped carefully. And I wasted a ton of time bypassing the chockstone, not being familiar with said bypass.
Did a bit of pathetic daylight sneaking later on, but then accidentally walked right into a security vehicle. I didn't make eye contact and kept about my business. Sort of like dealing with a bear I guess. Anyway, this technique seemed to work and I didn't have any trouble.
Good times, great oldies. Thanks for the photos, report and memories Taco. Zach, it was a pleasure as always.
Remember kids, "NO YOUR LIMITS!"
Don't beat yourself up too much Ryan. You were an invaluable resource and I think we owe any success to your route finding. I personally have no desire to be "guided" up a mountain military fashion. A text message stating that you'd bailed would have been nice so I wouldn't have waited at the summit, but all in all I think we handled it pretty well. Personal responsibility is important too.
Not sure how far up you guys made it, but probably the last 1000' was the worst kind of soft snow ever. I had to bang off my crampons every couple steps. Probably would have had more fun with a shovel rather than an ice axe. It was a real test of will. Thankfully, it was deep enough to be fairly secure.
While I was waiting, I also did the rounds on top and hit maybe Jean's Peak and Miller Peak. Those are close, right?
My cabin bivy was pretty funny and rather hard to find in the dark. Ran out of fuel after melting a liter of water, so canned (and frozen) food was off limits. Ate a MRE and watched mice climb on things for a while. Stuffed a sleeping bag into another one and hit the sack(s). I was up at 6 and started down Snow Creek shortly thereafter. It took some doing and somewhere around 330 I finally made it back to my truck. I'm sure with a proper breakfast and proper hydration that could have been much faster, but I wouldn't say I had either. Hence, I took my time and stepped carefully. And I wasted a ton of time bypassing the chockstone, not being familiar with said bypass.
Did a bit of pathetic daylight sneaking later on, but then accidentally walked right into a security vehicle. I didn't make eye contact and kept about my business. Sort of like dealing with a bear I guess. Anyway, this technique seemed to work and I didn't have any trouble.
Good times, great oldies. Thanks for the photos, report and memories Taco. Zach, it was a pleasure as always.
Remember kids, "NO YOUR LIMITS!"
Tell the "Truth Zach" you have small deposits of brown material in your shorts and don't want to admit it, the Chute didn't scare you in "Ghetto" shoes as much as the drive home
Nice work on making it, that's one hell of a day. NF San J is not for the faint of heart. As Rick K points out, once you are in the upper reaches you are committed - otherwise - "Happy Landing"
Nice work on making it, that's one hell of a day. NF San J is not for the faint of heart. As Rick K points out, once you are in the upper reaches you are committed - otherwise - "Happy Landing"
i had a couple "oh shit" moments when i would climb until i was out of breath, feel light headed and realize being dizzy on the side of a mountain like that wasn't such a good idea...
ghetto boots, yeah those are officially done, they were impossible to frontpoint with. my scarpa's just arrived in the mail!
ghetto boots, yeah those are officially done, they were impossible to frontpoint with. my scarpa's just arrived in the mail!
- brian90620
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:34 pm
Cool pics, and great trip report.......It always seems to amaze me everytime Im on the 10 freeway under Mount San Jacinto, and I look up and think, people go all the way from the desert floor to the top of the mountian in one day, especially in snow/ice.......All I can say is wow!!!!! 8)
If you're not comfortable on class five, why not have Lucy lead it and give you a neck-belay?lilbitmo wrote:By the way, I want to go next year and would love a little map of the chock stone bypass, class five is more than I want to do for now, but class three is in my range.
I'm sorry about the drive home, Zach, and I owe you for that, whether you like it or not. 8)
Part 1
Part 2
Alex, my phone always dies in cold weather, so I sent you a message as soon as I could... the next day, after it had been charging enough to start up. No idea why it does this.
Part 1
Part 2
Alex, my phone always dies in cold weather, so I sent you a message as soon as I could... the next day, after it had been charging enough to start up. No idea why it does this.
Scarpa are the shiznit ( as long as you have skinny feet).Zach wrote: ghetto boots, yeah those are officially done, they were impossible to frontpoint with. my scarpa's just arrived in the mail!
Are there good spots for a bivy? I'd be worried about rock fall, but perhaps lower down would work?Zach wrote: That being said: NF San J would be an awesome over-nighter. Contemplating it, but probably not any time soon.
I think going in during the afternoon, provided you found the tunnel before dark, would get you to a nice bivy site. Actually, someone had left a notebook to sign there. It is just below the chockstone, and the route proper so no rockfall there. Also, rockfall really wasn't an issue. Even with the temps being as high as they were, the only thing coming down was pine cones.
Señor Taco-
1) The time stamp has been off for quite a while and
2) With regards to your 'team' approach... those are excellent pieces of advice. Perhaps you have heard: "Good judgment comes from experience, experience often comes from bad judgment."
3) Great TR!
1) The time stamp has been off for quite a while and
2) With regards to your 'team' approach... those are excellent pieces of advice. Perhaps you have heard: "Good judgment comes from experience, experience often comes from bad judgment."
3) Great TR!