EISPIRATEN

Sean wrote: ↑

AW wrote: ↑I havent seen any facts in what you say ... BTW, the only reason why we see raging infernos is the incompotence of the forest service....and yes that brings up the Station Fire.

I respect your call for facts, as there is a lot of off-topic wind currently powering this thread. But I think it's unfair to entirely blame the FS for the Station Fire. There were many factors involved, perhaps most importantly the drought of 2007-2009, creating very favorable conditions for a massive fire. Also, there was arson and extreme temperatures. An abundance of invasive species did not help the situation either.

The Station Fire was so bungled, the public meeting was just one sad but overpowering fact after another. The FS didnt contest the questions, and just shrugged shoulders. The media was hoping for some news footage of drama, but everyone remained calm. Remeber, the discussion about fire supression is one thing, but people got killed....and there were many more that just about bit it. Not only did they just 'let it burn' in day2, they didnt even tell people in harms way. There were many tears as residents testified of FAKE, muchless false, information that was life threatining. Being told that the fire wasnt a threat, and then when the fire was coming down Lukens towards them were told that help would arrive, after first being told it was not burning there!. Help did arrive, but only from support units that took matters into their own hands....the Monrovia FD of all places, playing a key role....with LA County eventually figuring it out.

It was like everyday in the early going, days 1-3, was so mismanaged it was scary. In day 1, the truth was that the old growth burns slower than new growth. Granted they follow that truth now and jump on everything because they know the Station Fire area will burn quickly again.

The other part doesnt have to do with the fire supression...as once the fire concludes those who said "let it burn" disappear. Then comes in the 2-faced opportunists and start talking about the conquences of letting it burn...the real threat - erosion. Not to mention the forest is closed .

As it happened, I feel we really lucked out by not having a wet year after the Station Fire. All one has to do is recall the flash flood of 1938, a heavy rain year after a fire on Lukens. Think old growth doesnt help out, and that the steep slopes arent indicative of old growth/LACK of fires? Think again. If I put one of those 'Let it Burn' people next to some burned slope when its raining hard,watch em run away LOL.

I could have just linked to this website too...
http://www.californiachaparral.org/fire ... ience.html

Sean wrote: ↑

AW wrote: ↑I havent seen any facts in what you say ... BTW, the only reason why we see raging infernos is the incompotence of the forest service....and yes that brings up the Station Fire.

I respect your call for facts, as there is a lot of off-topic wind currently powering this thread. But I think it's unfair to entirely blame the FS for the Station Fire. There were many factors involved, perhaps most importantly the drought of 2007-2009, creating very favorable conditions for a massive fire. Also, there was arson and extreme temperatures. An abundance of invasive species did not help the situation either.

Well said.

At the end of the day it was an arsonist that was never caught who struck when the natural conditions were optimum for a massive fire. Beyond the loss of life there are large swatches that may not return to what they were in our lifetimes.

My understanding is that around a million pine and fir trees were planted with only about 25% taking hold due to the lack of rain and the overtaking of chaparral. They were looking for a 75% survival rate.

Personally, I place no blame on forest management. But man, the idea of some piece of dirt starting that fire just flips me out. And I'm reminded of it every time I'm on the 2. Doesn't feel "normal" until I hit Chilao.

If I could be so bold and to get back on topic:
>General rifle deer season closed 11/10.
>An either-sex archery deer season goes until 12/31.
>Bear season is open until the end of December or when 1,700 bears (statewide) are taken.
>Quail is open until the end of next January.
>Trapping doesn't have a specific season but it tends to start around Thanksgiving when bobcat opens. It takes a bit of cold weather for the fur to thicken and be worth selling.
>Poaching season is open year-round.

tracker wrote: ↑If I could be so bold and to get back on topic:
>General rifle deer season closed 11/10.
>An either-sex archery deer season goes until 12/31.
>Bear season is open until the end of December or when 1,700 bears (statewide) are taken.
>Quail is open until the end of next January.
>Trapping doesn't have a specific season but it tends to start around Thanksgiving when bobcat opens. It takes a bit of cold weather for the fur to thicken and be worth selling.
>Poaching season is open year-round.

Liked the last one.

I didn't know bear season was also contingent on how many bears were taken...or 'harvested' as they say.

I checked it out. As of Nov. 14 the number stands at 795 statewide.

I checked it out. As of Nov. 14 the number stands at 795 statewide.

795 is low for mid November. It wouldn't surprise me if the season closed by calendar instead of quota this year. This is the first season since the use of trailing hounds on bear and bobcat was banned.

Sounds like they might only get 1/2 the bears they got last year. I guess taking hounds out of the equation gives the bears more of a chance.

I suppose they must allow bear hunting near areas where bears have become a problem (Mammoth, for example). Interesting. Habituated bears have no fear of man, but if a man comes with a gun. Bears are pretty smart though; they may figure it out.

HJ

Hikin_Jim wrote: ↑Sounds like they might only get 1/2 the bears they got last year. I guess taking hounds out of the equation gives the bears more of a chance.

I suppose they must allow bear hunting near areas where bears have become a problem (Mammoth, for example). Interesting. Habituated bears have no fear of man, but if a man comes with a gun. Bears are pretty smart though; they may figure it out.

HJ

Yeah, most bears taken (statewide)by hunters were with the aid of dogs, until this year. LA County/ANF has never been a place houndsmen hunted very much. I'm told our canyons are too steep and deep, and we don't have enough roads. The roads we have are too much like the Autobahn. The hunting take for this area is low. Y2K was the highest year I know of at 11 taken. It isn't unusual for none to be taken by hunters during a season. Or at least none were taken legally, tagged, and reported.
Truth be told - Cars and property owners account for the majority of the bears killed locally.

tracker wrote: ↑...property owners account for the majority of the bears killed locally.

Is that people killing "problem" bears?

HJ

Hikin_Jim wrote: ↑

tracker wrote: ↑...property owners account for the majority of the bears killed locally.

Is that people killing "problem" bears?HJ

With local hunting numbers hovering at a dozen or less per year, it's easy for both accidental and intentional human-caused bear mortality stats to be higher. The old Shoot, Shovel, and Shut-up is giving way to new, quieter methods. Without going into details, I can say that your kitchen, garden, and garage have more than enough materials to make an assortment of concoctions to cause kidney failure in a bear. Also, there is accidental poisoning that happens too. There's an algaecide for ornamental water features called "Physan" that will kill things if the label instructions aren't followed.
People are just bad news for bears.

Poisoning? Yipes. Although if a bear were constantly breaking into my cabin, I might be tempted too.

HJ

Cabin owners have always battled bear problems. They learn that the best solutions tend to be prevention-related, instead of cures. The places most dangerous for bears are far from the woods; but it's not like we can sit them down and explain things to them. You may have seen us catching that bear in Baldwin Park a couple weeks ago. We did what we could. He got an eartag and a ride up to Deer Flats, past Crystal Lake. Three days later it was dead on someone's front porch in Littlerock.

The one from Granada Hills - Knollwood Country Club spent the night in my driveway, then got a ride to New Cuyama the next day. This was the third time we caught him in the same general area. We'll see if he returns. I sense a YouTube take-off on a Frank Zappa song:
Valley bear, he's a Valley bear. OK fine, fer sure fer sure; he's a Valley bear and there is no cure.... Like, OMG

tracker wrote: ↑You may have seen us catching that bear in Baldwin Park a couple weeks ago. We did what we could. He got an eartag and a ride up to Deer Flats, past Crystal Lake. Three days later it was dead on someone's front porch in Littlerock.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct/15 ... k-20131015

tracker wrote: ↑The one from Granada Hills - Knollwood Country Club spent the night in my driveway, then got a ride to New Cuyama the next day. This was the third time we caught him in the same general area. We'll see if he returns.

Confiscate his GPS.

HJ

HikeUp wrote: ↑what were we talking about?

From hunting to fire suppression in 60 seconds.......back to original thread.

Btw I was in Yellowstone in 88..for what it's worth and having lived in the Northwest, growed up back East & got my first deer bow hunting at 10 with my uncle, I'm not getting into the hunting vs not hunting argument and I, while not an avid hunter, agree with subsistence hunting, and game management, also do shoot long range 7.62x51 for my own personal challenges, 3/8" 5 shot groups makes me u kno what hard!

I just spent a bit in the prairie fork area and while making my Sunday hike into wrightwood for a cell signal to call my kid for safety report and pint of ice cream, I came upon a group, headed down the Mine gulch trail about 8am on my way up. Guy and his grandsons, heard em coming down the trail way before they saw me. Made enough noise to send anything up high. Obviously typical flatlanders. I was unaware of the opening season, but had seen reference on here to it before headed in so was wary.

Seems from Utah, Idaho, Mt and Ca, funniest trait was that while my time up in the area since this spring saw many deer, does w/fawn to hearing the bucks but not actually seeing em, this time not a one and the common trait in all is it seems they get a notice that hunting season is opening, cause they all seem to disappear about that time!

Anywho, we talked the precursorary typical talk, seen any? No, blah blah blah. Fast forward to about 4pm, I'm on my way back down, and here 3 shots over the course of hikin down.

I'm thinking who the heck is gonna take a shot this late in day, just about dusk, they are way down by what my ear says, but heck ain't first time I've helped pack out meat, so maybe this is to MY advantage, har har. Lil venison wouldn't hurt my bean an rice diet!

I meet the first of the group, the young kids. They were all jazzed and lil shakin up, cause they just saw a bobcat. Thought it was gonna eat em! I explained to em, he ain't gonna bother ya, just headed out hunting himself!

10 minutes later grandpa and oldest are coming up and we talk about thier luck and stuff. I tell em I seen some lion tracks up around this area and any self respecting deer ain't gonna hang in lion domain, so not many in this area.

Then the stupid part, start talking shots. Well sonny boy did take a few shots, he saw one across the canyon, I guesstimate prolly a good 7-800 yard shot? Hence the three shots. He missed or did he? Duh... He wound em? Or nail some poor unsuspecting looked like a deer to me person? I as always, questioned his judgment, but since he had the .270 and me well, this is calif. I left it at that.

While living in Utah, which BTW on opening day the schools shut down to allow the family to go hunting, you would not believe how many Elk, and dairy cows were shot on opening day of DEER season, by out of state hunters. It was hilarious, guy would pull into tagging station with a elk strapped to his hood and wonder why he was getting cited by F&G, thought he had a new Boone & Crockett record deer! Stupid is as stupid does.

Well, long winded enough, my story FWIW.

Be safe.....

And always.....Question Stupidity!

The thought of 800 dead bears perplexes me. What do you do with a dead bear exactly? I mean it's fur must be pretty good to be used. But you don't eat them right? How do you transport something that heavy?

I believe that people do eat bear.

HJ

VermillionPearlGirl wrote: ↑The thought of 800 dead bears perplexes me. What do you do with a dead bear exactly? I mean it's fur must be pretty good to be used. But you don't eat them right? How do you transport something that heavy?

It's a rich red meat. The taste is highly variable. Like any wild game, what the animal has been eating will affect the taste. The fat is sun-rendered down into an oil that can't be beat for preserving and waterproofing leather.
The hunters are required by law to retrieve all edible portions from the field as well as presenting the head to a CDFW employee for tag validation and extracting a tooth for age analysis. Even if it becomes dog food, the meat has to be hauled out and taken home.
I've heard a lot of stories about guys taking several days to get big bears out.

Before the thread goes dead:
I mentioned that this is getting into the season where the fur trappers are out. Since the entire CDFW Enforcement squad for the area is 5 wardens and one patrol lieutenant (me), we really appreciate when the public acts as our eyes and ears. If you should stumble across a trap, shoot me a PM. We mainly just want to know who is where, and when. GPS coords, license plate numbers, times, and anything else you may have seen are the best way to help us. We'll take it from there. I know it's tough to not intervene, but trapping can be a legal activity. Interfering with legal trapping is a misdemeanor. Spoiling a case may be the difference between us being able to seize a violator's entire catch and having him get away with it, if he is operating illegally.
Local bobcat prices will open at $300 - $500 per pelt this year. With that kind of money at stake there is real incentive to cheat. No offense to legal trappers, but, well, you know what some guys do....
HJ: I'm good friends with the OC officers. I can relay info you might come across down there.
CM: Make sure your pics and vids don't have any GPS info embedded. I don't know exactly how all of that stuff works but informants tell me sometimes guys get prospective trap locations from pics on the internet.
All: Thanx in advance if you can help.
Worth keeping in mind: Most trapping is done within 1/8 mile of pavement. Also, it isn't necessarily happening in the tall pines and wilderness. Parks, nature centers, flood control channels and basins, powerline easements, railroad corridors, literally any open space, ... all good.

tracker wrote: ↑ CM: Make sure your pics and vids don't have any GPS info embedded.

None of my cameras have that capability, so that's an easy one. Also if I ever tell someone where my video was taken, I'm probably lying.

Interesting that I've never come across a trap or snare though.

Thanks for the information!

cougarmagic wrote: ↑

tracker wrote: ↑ CM: Make sure your pics and vids don't have any GPS info embedded.

None of my cameras have that capability, so that's an easy one. Also if I ever tell someone where my video was taken, I'm probably lying.

Interesting that I've never come across a trap or snare though.

Thanks for the information!

I posted a release vid, taken on my phone, of the lion I caught in the desert last spring. I got a message from a stranger that day, scolding me for releasing a lion in a campground. I hadn't even finished the report yet. He told me that he plugged the GPS data from my pic into Google Earth and it came up as Artesian Springs Campground.
I told him the campground has been empty since the '70's when it was closed and leveled.

.. if I ever tell someone where my video was taken, I'm probably lying.

I guess it's true then. Someone told me you were a lyin' expert.

tracker wrote: ↑Someone told me you were a lyin' expert.

HJ

tracker wrote: ↑ HJ: I'm good friends with the OC officers. I can relay info you might come across down there.

Well, our move has been cast into doubt by a landlord who wants to stay in the spare room for two weeks this summer, a last minute addition to the rental agreement that my wife and I are none too happy about.

Wherever I land, I'll keep my eyes open.

HJ

tracker wrote: ↑ It's a rich red meat. The taste is highly variable. Like any wild game, what the animal has been eating will affect the taste. The fat is sun-rendered down into an oil that can't be beat for preserving and waterproofing leather.

Highest fat content too, if not mistaken. As above, lots of variables.

Interesting thread........

Need the PETA group, no not that one....mine. "People Eating Tasty Animals"

Not serious but funny......all the points above work to bettering the animals, I've watched cougars come back, and the California Condor is forefront in public view.

Pitch in, this "politically correct" goverment needs all the help it can get. Good points on the public helping.

Obama don't care. Har har....

IMHO...FWIW.......

And as always...Question Stupidity.