EISPIRATEN

longcut wrote: ↑i still dont see any map

Click HERE!

If that don't work...umm...blame Taco.

Okay Taco, your off the hook! I'm gonna sound like a total noob here but....wow that map is killer! Ive never see one of these! Thanks HJ, HikeUp, Taco, and whoever else!!!

I dont know how many questions I get before I wear out my welcome here, but...

Does anyone know what fire damage is like in the area? Are many portions of this trail from Cloudburst to Vincent Gap badly burned? I'm pretty sure the east of that it should be clear. I'm probably going down vincent gulch to Baldy, I'm assuming theres water down there until I leave Fish Fork.

You guys are awesome! Thanks!

LOL...another USC grad/fan.

I'm out.

USC grad/fan? Hmm, inside joke maybe. Over my head, sorry.

That area really didn't burn and is in good shape. You'll see some burned stuff around Three Points, but as you go east, you'll leave the burned stuff behind. There is an old burn around Windy Gap (from the Curve Fire I believe), but that is unrelated to the 2009 Station Fire.

HJ

HikeUp wrote: ↑If that don't work...umm...blame Taco.

Ya got that right.

HJ

I'm excited, thanks all.

longcut wrote: ↑I'm probably going down vincent gulch to Baldy, I'm assuming theres water down there until I leave Fish Fork.

A unique approach to Baldy. Looking forward to the TR.

longcut wrote: ↑I dont know how many questions I get before I wear out my welcome here, but...

Does anyone know what fire damage is like in the area? Are many portions of this trail from Cloudburst to Vincent Gap badly burned? I'm pretty sure the east of that it should be clear. I'm probably going down vincent gulch to Baldy, I'm assuming theres water down there until I leave Fish Fork.

You guys are awesome! Thanks!

you are going to hike up Fish Fork?

longcut wrote: ↑Does anyone know what fire damage is like in the area? Are many portions of this trail from Cloudburst to Vincent Gap badly burned? I'm pretty sure the east of that it should be clear. I'm probably going down vincent gulch to Baldy, I'm assuming theres water down there until I leave Fish Fork.

So, it sounds like you're heading east from Little Jimmy along the PCT, dropping down from Vincent Gap via Vincent Gulch to Prairie Fork, ascending Prairie Fork to Lupine Camp, taking the trail over to Little Fish Fork, ascending the Dawson Peak Trail, and approaching Baldy from the north. From Baldy, you'd descend to Baldy Notch and then take 3N06 to Coldwater Campground and then to the N Fork of Lytle Creek. Is that the route you're taking?

Lemme know if that's the route you're taking. Coupla things to be aware of in there.

HJ

Yes, that was the route i was considering Jim. It was still up in the air, as is the entire route, open to things like water avail, xcountry opportunities, etc.

longcut wrote: ↑Yes, that was the route i was considering Jim. It was still up in the air, as is the entire route, open to things like water avail, xcountry opportunities, etc.

OK, 'coupla things to be aware of. Take a look at the last map link I posted.

Your next water going east from Little Jimmy is at Lamel Spring. Might be a lot of snow cover right now in the area. Probably flowing.

When you get to Vincent Gap ("B"), you need to take the old mine road south, and then then there's a little branch that drops off pretty early on.

When you get to the bottom of Vincent Gulch there may or may not be water where you first get down, but at "D" there's a pretty reliable side stream. I don't bother to filter this one.

The further down you go, the more you'll run into water until the gulch opens up and becomes very sandy as you approach "E". The creek will be underground the last mile or so. Once you hit Prairie Fork ("E") there will be water again but it's kind of minerally. There's some white crap in the water. I'd probably pre-filter it before running it through a water filter.

The trail from "E" east to Cabin Flat ("F") is pretty much non-existent. Be prepared for some bushwhacking. I think it's a little better from "F" up to Lupine ("G"), but that road has been closed for a number of years now. The road is still open to Lupine in season (I'm pretty sure it's closed for the winter right now). There is water in the Lupine CG area, if not right in the campground, then definitely at "H." The old road out of Lupine is in OK shape. There are down trees and such, but it's passable on foot up to "I". From "I" follow the ridge down looking for a prominent track leading to the right. There are a lot of old logging roads out there. You want to stay on the west face of the SW trending ridge in section 25 and head toward the small saddle near point 7258. Drop down the switchbacks and you'll intersect an old logging road coming in from the west. The old logging road is marked as a trail on the map link. There are a confusing welter of old logging roads on that hillside from the saddle down to the one marked as a trail on the map. Do your best. You just have to get down to the main, marked one Turn left on the main one, and you'll find water at "J". There's an old trail camp at "K". Your last reliable water is at "K".

Here's where it gets tricky. It's tough to spot the Dawson Peak Trail as it leaves the Fish Fork area ("L"). Some people have been able to follow it; some have not. It's been years since it's been maintained. Be prepared for XC route finding here. You may or may not be able to follow the trail.

Once you hit the main ridge ("M"), the trail should be clearer. Turn right (south) and follow the trail towards Dawson Peak. There's a major (and daunting!) drop down to Dawson-Baldy saddle once you pass Dawson Peak. Then you can follow a rough trail, more of a use trail really, up the back side of Baldy. It is a very steep trail. Hope you're in shape for all this.

From the top of Baldy ("O"), head down the main trail to Baldy Notch. Should be pretty easy to follow depending on when you go. The Notch ("P") is obvious. There's water and snacks at the ski area buildings. You might want to check on hours of operation before you depend on them. Then follow 3N06 to the N Fork of Lytle Creek. Alternatively, you can cut down (before you reach Baldy Notch) the ridge that winds up by Big Horn campground. You can also cut down from 3N06 to Coldwater Campground and from there to N Fork Lytle Cr. I haven't tried those last two options but have seen posts here about them.

Lotsa interesting hiking!

HJ

HJ, I really appreciate all the time you took to put this together for me. Very enlightening indeed.

Our plan was to make this a 3-4 day trek, seems doable. 2 of us are what I would call very strong, having recently done cactus to clouds, Big Iron, etc. I'm doing ski hut to Baldy Summit fairly comfortably now as a 5-hour hike. The 4th guy I'm not sure about.

Water seems like it wont be an issue at all with the information you have provided. We can do comfortably with 10-15 miles between water sources, further if necessary.

Let me look this over good and get back to you. Thanks again Jim!

longcut wrote: ↑HJ, I really appreciate all the time you took to put this together for me. Very enlightening indeed.

Our plan was to make this a 3-4 day trek, seems doable. 2 of us are what I would call very strong, having recently done cactus to clouds, Big Iron, etc. I'm doing ski hut to Baldy Summit fairly comfortably now as a 5-hour hike. The 4th guy I'm not sure about.

Water seems like it wont be an issue at all with the information you have provided. We can do comfortably with 10-15 miles between water sources, further if necessary.

Let me look this over good and get back to you. Thanks again Jim!

Cool. Post pics after yer done.

HJ

Shoot, pics is the least I can do. I hope I can pull this thing together, hikers can be a finnicky lot.

After reading through yer "things to be aware of", I was thinking about skipping all that bushwack and staying on the PCT until I come to the backbone trail. We were trying to keep this around 3 days/3nights, no reason to go the hard way. So now I'm thinking Day 1 Three Points to Little Jimmy. Day 2 Little Jimmy to Blue Ridge. Day 3 Blue Ridge to Manker Flats via backbone and ski hut. What does that crystal ball of yours say about this?

Thanks,
Longcut

Normality restored.

longcut wrote: ↑After reading through yer "things to be aware of", I was thinking about skipping all that bushwack and staying on the PCT until I come to the backbone trail. We were trying to keep this around 3 days/3nights, no reason to go the hard way. So now I'm thinking Day 1 Three Points to Little Jimmy. Day 2 Little Jimmy to Blue Ridge. Day 3 Blue Ridge to Manker Flats via backbone and ski hut. What does that crystal ball of yours say about this?

Thanks,
Longcut

I think that works. One car at Three Points, one car at Manker.

There will be water at each of your two evening stops (assuming you stay at the camp on Blue Ridge and know where the water is).

Last day will be a hump, but nothing undoable, particularly if you're traveling light.

Worst part is going back to get your car.

You could just do a PCT section hike instead and keep heading east instead of going South at the "other" Devil's backbone, but the country from Pine Mtn. to Manker is really nice country.

The country heading down into Cajon Jct isn't all that exciting once you descend below, I don't know, say 6000'.

You would miss some really nice country going down Vincent Gulch and going through Little Fish Fork up to Dawson, but the stretch along the "other" Devil's Backbone is pretty cool.

No water from Blue Ridge to Manker that I know about unless you hit snow patches. When are you going to go? Tons of snow probably up through April.

HJ

"There will be water at each of your two evening stops (assuming you stay at the camp on Blue Ridge and know where the water is)."

So uh, where IS the water?

"Worst part is going back to get your car."

I have a secret weapon. My wife can take us from our cars at Manker to the starting point at Three Points! Mwahahah! I just need the perfect scheme to make her think she owes it to me!

"The country heading down into Cajon Jct isn't all that exciting once you descend below, I don't know, say 6000'."

Figured.

"You would miss some really nice country going down Vincent Gulch and going through Little Fish Fork up to Dawson"

I know I'm bummed about that. I saw the recent TR to Cabin Flat. That will definitely be a trip of it's own. A one-nighter from Manker to Heaton Flats maybe?

"No water from Blue Ridge to Manker that I know about unless you hit snow patches. When are you going to go? Tons of snow probably up through April."

You probably just forgot, there's water at the ski hut. We want to go as soon as the snow allows safe passage without crampons. Through April? Really? That would be awesome, I love it up there right now.

longcut wrote: ↑"There will be water at each of your two evening stops (assuming you stay at the camp on Blue Ridge and know where the water is)."

So uh, where IS the water?

Well, for two beers...
Nah, kidding, free for you. Here's a posting from a PCT hiker:

[From Guffy Campground it's] ~275 yards N DOWN STEEP slope to spring house in Flume Cyn. Take wide use trail at rock cairn on the right (N) below guard rail just before PCT enters the campgrd ~50 yds E of the water tank. Spring UTM 0439545, 3800530 elev. 7724.

That's the best info I've got; I haven't used the spring personally. Alternatively, you could walk into Wrightwood (4 mi RT with significant gain/loss), or cache water in advance.

longcut wrote: ↑You probably just forgot, there's water at the ski hut. We want to go as soon as the snow allows safe passage without crampons. Through April? Really? That would be awesome, I love it up there right now.

True, but by then you're almost back to Manker. Guffy to Manker is still a fairly long waterless stretch.

HJ

Btw, I got your beers whenever your ready. You just say the word mister.

Your right though, Guffy to Ski Hut is a long haul without water! I hike up there alot, maybe I'll stash some near the summit before the trip.

Hikin_Jim wrote: ↑Here's a posting from a PCT hiker:
[From Guffy Campground it's] ~275 yards N DOWN STEEP slope to spring house in Flume Cyn. Take wide use trail at rock cairn on the right (N) below guard rail just before PCT enters the campgrd ~50 yds E of the water tank. Spring UTM 0439545, 3800530 elev. 7724.

That was the best of many descriptions I've received for that spring. I've never gone down to it.

If ANYONE, ANYTIME, has updates on water sources on the Pacific Crest Trail, please email them to me at water @ 4jeffrey dot net. I try to keep them current at http://pct.4jeffrey.net but I don't get on this forum very often. Thanks!

Effective May 7, most of the detour through the Station Fire burn area has been lifted for PCT thru hikers.

The only section that is still a detour is just west of Mt. Pacifico where it crosses 3N17. From here, hikers are asked to stay on the dirt road for 4.6 miles to Mill Creek Summit, where they can join the PCT again westard for it's duration.

Also, hikers are asked to only camp at Sulphur Springs, Messenger Flats, or North Fork Station.

Of course, I've yet to see a news release/forest order revison released by the Forest Service yet. But this information is confirmed by the PCT people as well as the USFS.

map

http://www.pctmap.net/pctdownloads/stat ... r_2011.pdf

Leaving w/ a group of scouts next week and plan to go to B-P on 6/23 from Little Jimmy; wondering about access to the summit with respect to snow, then how the trail is down to Vincent Gap. Anybody w/ current info is appreciated.

Will keep checking posts through next weekend.

BP should be all clear. The snow field at 8600 to the saddle should be gone by now.

Hiking Buddy and I are planning an overnighter and day hike next week, heading out from Islip Saddle, camping at Little Jimmy and summiting the next day. Anyone have recent conditions intel? Wondering if there's currently any snow on the ground and if so how much. I'm seeing that this week is fairly warm and that another system is slated for the weekend, but I'm curious if anyones got first hand info. Buddy doesn't have crampons or snowshoes so if things are dicey, we may need to come up with a Plan B.

You need to be aware of the N and S words! Thats where all the trouble lies as you try to move the body with extra weight on a variable terrain. In a split second your winter fun can be over. There is plenty of North, Shady and steep trail in this area that you have to be aware as you try to reach the LJ camp and beyond. The temp is going to be cold so there will be icy sections on the trail covered with the new snow and you need to have traction in order to avoid an unwanted down hill ride. Mandatory will also be the sticks, crampons or any other thing you can wear that can provide some traction. Secure footsteps(control) takes lots of time so be patient to reach the camp. Then you see how you feel to go beyond the camp and your ability to follow the trail if it is visible or not and to be able to return back to the camp safely. This is the first hand info you need- awareness of the environment once you get out of the car. Hope this helps you to go out there and have some fun.......666

Mango,, Did you guys make the trek ? How was the trail up to badden powell ?

No we didn't make the trip. Aborted at the trailhead when Hiking Buddy got scared (possibly rightly so) by the approaching storm. Did hike up to Little Jimmy a few days after the storm and conditions to there were beautiful...6-8" of fresh powder, trail still navigable, no icy spots. Made the trip with Microspikes. Turned around due at LJ due to time constraints, so I can't attest to conditions further up. That was all back on the 22 of Nov, so I'm sure conditions have changed considerably.