The Station Fire Thread
A week ago they were predicting containment by the 8th. Not bad.
Nunc est bibendum
BTW, and not to downplay the fact that this fire was arson-caused and two firefighters lost their lives senselessly, but I work in an area that was burned in a similar sized fire in 2003 (Old/Grand Prix). Yes, you can still see evidence of the fire, still plenty of burned tree skeletons. But it's amazing to me how well and quickly chaparral grows back. It's becoming harder to see the black skeletons for all the new green growth. Chaparral is made to burn, 80% of the plant species can only reproduce when there is a fire. In fact most of the temperate forests of the world are adapted to fire. and only exist because of it.
And it's easy to look at a fire perimeter map and imagine total destruction in the entire area in between. But that's rarely the reality. Pockets of vegetation do survive fires. North facing cooler slopes and canyons likely still have big trees that didn't succomb to flames. So all is not lost. All has been renewed, however. I imagine some great wildflower displays in the next few years, and I often spot more wildlife in recently burned areas for they like to nibble on the new growth.
And it's easy to look at a fire perimeter map and imagine total destruction in the entire area in between. But that's rarely the reality. Pockets of vegetation do survive fires. North facing cooler slopes and canyons likely still have big trees that didn't succomb to flames. So all is not lost. All has been renewed, however. I imagine some great wildflower displays in the next few years, and I often spot more wildlife in recently burned areas for they like to nibble on the new growth.
Very Little smoke is showing on the Tower Cam
Tower Cam
Just a few small columns of smoke.....
National Weather Service point forecast
Light to moderate winds
Unfortunately RH is low in the Mountain areas
Clear Crk 11
Chilao 11
Mt Wilson 17
Tower Cam
Just a few small columns of smoke.....
National Weather Service point forecast
Light to moderate winds
Unfortunately RH is low in the Mountain areas
Clear Crk 11
Chilao 11
Mt Wilson 17
View of east end of Lukens Ridge from Josephine Peak Cam on the morning of 9/9/09...
Click to see full size image
Click to see full size image
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Layne Cantrell
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:20 pm
What a roller coaster. Yesterday it seemed like Waterman/Buckhorn/Cooper etc. were all toast. Now it looks like they might actually make it.mattmaxon wrote:The satellites (Aqua, & Terra) have made two passes overhead with no new "Thermal Anomalies" Fire detections
The worst maybe behind us for now.
And just to keep us from relaxing and/or celebrating, of course, the damn fire reserves the right to flare up at any point and set us up for even more disappointment. I hate fires.
Another good site is
http://www.angelescrestservices.com/New ... pdates.htm
Not good enough to be on misc news, but has some good info on road closures(near the bottom of the page) especially. Lots of pics too.
Had an interesting photo of dust from the AFH
http://www.angelescrestservices.com/101_0232.JPG
http://www.angelescrestservices.com/New ... pdates.htm
Not good enough to be on misc news, but has some good info on road closures(near the bottom of the page) especially. Lots of pics too.
Had an interesting photo of dust from the AFH
http://www.angelescrestservices.com/101_0232.JPG
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Layne Cantrell
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:20 pm
::sigh::
They're dicking around with some sort of controlled burn near Mt Wilson. Check out the cam. It was beautiful and smoke-free the whole day until they started messing around with this.
Again, is Mt Wilson even threatened anymore? This is weird, fishy stuff.
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Layne Cantrell
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:20 pm
More info, makes sense to me - hey I guess I really am a novice and should quit my bitching.Layne Cantrell wrote:::sigh::
They're dicking around with some sort of controlled burn near Mt Wilson. Check out the cam. It was beautiful and smoke-free the whole day until they started messing around with this.
Again, is Mt Wilson even threatened anymore? This is weird, fishy stuff.
The Incident Commanders have talked about a firing operation to remove the unburned fuel below Mt. Wilson, and to tie the fire together. That will allow earlier access as the mountain will be fire safe after the unburned fuel is gone, and we won't have to wait for the fire to get there on it's own
(a) Redbox Road will be HARD CLOSED AND LOCKED sometime
after midnight tonight,
(b) you will not be able to drive into the back of the
Observatory as that road will be closed as well,
(c) the big parking lot at Skyline Park is the safety area
for us here on the mountain should anything jump lines or get
out of control. I have been assured we will be very safe as
we will shelter in the parking lot, and
(d) three burns will be started. The first burn will be hand
ignited going east. The second will be the north slope using
a helitorch. The final one will be on the east side of Redbox
Road and will be ignited with ping pong balls.
Again, I have been advised that we will all be safe and there
is no cause for concern. Safety has been at the forefront of
this operational plan by fire experts. I have fire-protective
gear. After the burns are completed, broadcast engineers will
have better access to the hill.
Keep in mind this very important point: NO TRAFFIC WILL BE
ALLOWED ON THE ROADS before, during and for a few hours after
the burn operation. The definition of "few" remains to be
determined, and Murphy lives, but at least there is an end
in sight.
It was explained to me that this burn-out operation is being
done for addition protection against future fire events and the
Santa Ana Winds. Without the burn, fire officials are concerned
that for a few weeks plus, we would have hot spots that could
quickly re-ignite and cause a catastrophe in a wind-driven event.
We don't need that.
Dennis Doty, Mt. Wilson
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cougarmagic
- Posts: 1409
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 5:21 pm
http://www.theskichannel.com/news/skine ... ki-Channel
Where is "Avalanche canyon" exactly? I hope we can find out soon how much of the trees did (or did not) burn.
Where is "Avalanche canyon" exactly? I hope we can find out soon how much of the trees did (or did not) burn.
I'm pretty sure it is this canyon...ACME map link...at mile marker 55.44 (just east of Winston Springs about .4 miles).
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scott johnson
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:05 pm
Avalanche Canyon is the favorite of out of bounds skiers at Mt. Waterman.
As the name implies, this canyon can produces nice size snow slides under the right conditions.
The canyon drains north from the Waterman ridge. The mouth of the canyon spills out over Hwy 2 at the lower left of the "switchback" that ends at Cloudburst Summit.
Scott.
As the name implies, this canyon can produces nice size snow slides under the right conditions.
The canyon drains north from the Waterman ridge. The mouth of the canyon spills out over Hwy 2 at the lower left of the "switchback" that ends at Cloudburst Summit.
Scott.
amen, sister.cougarmagic wrote:http://www.theskichannel.com/news/skine ... ki-Channel
(snipped) I hope we can find out soon how much of the trees did (or did not) burn.
hh
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cougarmagic
- Posts: 1409
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 5:21 pm
Layne Cantrell wrote:They're dicking around with some sort of controlled burn near Mt Wilson. Check out the cam. It was beautiful and smoke-free the whole day until they started messing around with this.
This is pure, honest sentiment - "you know, I think I've seen enough smoke already!!!" We'll be smoke free soon. Look forward to that first cool, clear fall day. It's coming.
By the way, I'm proud to report it has been over 24 hours since I have looked at a MODIS map. I think I had a problem. The first step is admitting it. 8)
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Layne Cantrell
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:20 pm
You got it!cougarmagic wrote:Layne Cantrell wrote:They're dicking around with some sort of controlled burn near Mt Wilson. Check out the cam. It was beautiful and smoke-free the whole day until they started messing around with this.
I knew I had had my fill when I started changing the channel - be it radio or TV - with every imagine or mention of fire.
Oh I can't wait!We'll be smoke free soon. Look forward to that first cool, clear fall day. It's coming.
By the way, I'm proud to report it has been over 24 hours since I have looked at a MODIS map. I think I had a problem. The first step is admitting it. 8)
And you're doing much better than me. It's been... oh... 10 or so minutes since I obessed over a MODIS map.
From the Los Angeles Times
Concerns rise about mudslides in areas burned by Station fire
September 16, 2009 | 12:52 pm
With the biggest fire in Los Angeles County history about 91% contained, concern is shifting to the threat of flash floods and mudslides.
The Station fire has blackened more than 160,000 acres in the San Gabriel Mountains, leaving barren and eroded hillsides towering over Los Angeles. When the winter rains start, there is little vegetation left in the burn areas to prevent water, silt, rocks and branches from coursing down steep canyons and ravines toward thousands of homes.
Although mudslides are a regular occurrence after fires, authorities are worried that this year’s flows could contain larger amounts of debris than usual. The San Gabriel mountains are made up of rock types that easily shatter and crumble.
“A lot of these slopes are already shedding substantial debris down into the channels – fine sediments and rock falls,” said Richard Hadley, spokesman for a team of scientists, engineers and other experts assembled by the U.S. Forest Service to assess the effect of the fire.
Debris flows off of these hills can be “almost like flowing concrete,” he said. “And on these really steep slopes, there can be a lot of power behind it.” The intense heat from the blaze can also cause the soil to effectively seal itself, resulting in even larger and faster flows, he said.
The so-called Burn Area Emergency Response Team is studying satellite imagery and conducting soil tests to determine where the effects of the fire have been most severe. With that information, it will model water flows, in order to identify the communities that are most at risk and recommend measures to protect lives and property. Possible safety measures include putting in temporary barriers to divert the flows, officials said.
The Los Angeles County Department of Public Works oversees an elaborate flood-control system, including 14 major damns, about 500 miles of open channels and 3,000 miles of storm drains that dump water into the Pacific Ocean.
Nine basins have also been carved into the hills in the affected area to trap silt, rocks and vegetation before storm flows reach urban areas, said Mark Pestrella, public works deputy director. “The system works very well every year, year in and year out,” Pestrella said. But he cautioned that some residences, particularly those located at the foot of burned slopes, could still be at risk.
Yup, cant wait till STORMWATCH 2009 way before it rains and every news org hoping to get something on tape rather than have to put the camera on the ground to make the lite rain look like a torrent...and other dramatics such as talk of the 1933 great christmas flood and mighty el-ninos.
Gotta love the the modern L.A. Times and there modern-day publishing strategy. Why not make a story out of something so obvious as the fact the winter rains will cause muddy debris flows to come down the hills after a brushfire denuded them in the fall.