EISPIRATEN

mattmaxon wrote:There is differing information about Newcomb's but I got the below information from another forum from someone who is very tied to both Newcomb's and Mt. Waterman:


Re: Angeles Forest Fires Waterman/Baldy
by snowave » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:17 am
Here is what I am hearing. CalTrans gone. Chilao Visitor center gone. Christian camp gone. Newcomb's missed and survived. Go figure!

FYI- you quoted the wrong person

This was the person who made those comments.

Re: Angeles Forest Fires Waterman/Baldy

Post by Tom Moriarty » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:15 pm
Here is what I am hearing. CalTrans gone. Chilao Visitor center gone. Christian camp gone. Newcomb's missed and survived. Go figure!

from here on the bottom of the page: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... 9&start=15

btw, here is a list of recreation sites inventoried by the Asst. Rec officer, G. Reponen. Alot is still unknown, obviously.

Recreation Site status as of today September 2:

All recreation sites in the lower Arroyo Seco and Bear Canyon were burned over by an intense fire but we do not know what survived
Millard- did not have any fire
Cobb Estate- has not had any fire
Chantry- has not had any fire
Delta Flat Overlook- 20% of the telephone poles burned
Delta Flat- no damage
Wildwood PA- Family signs burned, House gone but garage survives, 4 holer burned, no other damage, the plantation 60%+ destroyed
Vogel Flat PA- some barrier rails/posts burned
Stoneyvale PA- one table burned
Stoneyvale Overlook- all telephone poles burned
Big T Dam Overlook- no damage
The Pines Day Use Area- no damage
The Pines PA- the plantation is at least 50% destroyed unkown the status of our facilities
Hidden Springs PA- bulletin board and barrier posts/rails REA sign burned
Monte Cristo CG- Family signs burned, post for PAY HERE sign burned, lots of broken sycamore branches due to fire winds
Pony Park TH- restoom, all signs, and the wooden retaining wall burned
Mill Creek PA- everything wooden including the restrooms burned
Lightning Point Group CG- fire went through there on Saturday, status unknown
Messenger Flat CG- fire went through there on Saturday, status unknown
North Fork PA- fire went through there on Saturday, status unknown
Bear Divide PA- threatened still
Wilson Saddle TH- not threatened
Oak Springs TH- threatened still
Clear Creek IS- fences burned
Switzer's PA- family signs burned, upper bridge possibly burned, no other known damage
Redbox PA/TH- no damage
Valley Forge TC- under fire, status unknown
West Fork TC- under fire, status unknown
Devore TC- under fire, status unknown
Charlton PA- Fire went through Sunday- intense fire on the south slopes but status unknown
Chilao CG, PA, VC- under fire status unknown
Three Points TH- under fire, status unknown
Bandido Group CG- under fire, status unknown
Horseflat CG- under fire, status unknown
Sulphur Springs TC- under fire, status unknown
Pacifico CG- fire went through Monday, status unknown
Buckhorn CG/Cooper Canyon TC and sites east- unaffected

Mt. Lowe TC- under fire, status unknown
Inspiration Point Overlook- under fire, status unknown
Echo Mountain PA- under fire, status unknown
Idlehour TC- under fire, status unknown
Spruce Grove TC- has not had any fire
Cascade PA- has not had any fire
Hoegees TC- has not had any fire
Chantry Flat PA- has not had any fire

Northfork Station- survived
Camp 16- totally destroyed
Mill Creek Stattion and residences- totally destroyed, large barracks at County yard destroyed
Monte Cristo Station- Mike's house destroyed
Big T Station and residences- survived, entrance station destroyed
Clear Creek Station and IS- survived
Redbox/Haramoknga- survived
Mt. Wilson/Skyline Park- understory burning to remove the fuels before the fire front arrives
Crest Station and residences- survived
Arroyo residences- survived
Little T - threatened still
Bear Divide- threatened still
Vetter Mountain Lookout and garage- destroyed
Chilao Station and residences under fire- status unkown
Chilao Caltrans- residences destroyed
Newcombs Ranch- threatened still
Hidden Valley Girl Scout Camp- status unknown
Angeles Crest Christian Camp- intact
Camp Singing Pines- status unknown
Camp Eaton- intact
Camp Valcrest- intact
Glenwood Dad's Camp- threatened

HikeUp wrote:Did I hear it wrong?

Many people, called and pressured the forest sertvice

"apparently" to some effect

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_13249713

Alders survived? Water still flowing? good good good....

And photos!

http://www.insidesocal.com/publiceye/

All is not lost!

Do you see the green in those photos????

Do you see it?

The critters, if they escaped, could move back in there!

And the green...and the water....

Enough to make this fauna nut hyperventilate...

The Beast is now mostly out of the urban interface though it is very stubborn over toward Magic Mtn, wind could push it down to Sand Cyn, Santa Clarita in a very short time.

There is a bit of renewed vigor below Pacifico Mtn over Bare Mtn and SF Little Rock Creek

The main action is in the SE claw of the beast.

The fire has held at the head of Santa Anita Cyn so far OTOH it has made relentless progress toward Twin Peaks

To see the actively burning areas at the head of SA cyn you'll need to shut off the "Last 12 hrs 0430 PDT 0903" layer by unchecking it

It's a limitation I've yet to over come in GE if you got a clue as to how to deal with this let me know how

Here is the latest info I have
http://mattmaxon.homeip.net/data/Fire%2 ... 200903.kml

Yes yes! I suspect this was the case.

it is good... some of the critters have and will survive... life will find a way!

For the last three days i've been seeing the daily spot fires on the side of Bare Mountain. I've got a direct view of it from my house.

No news good or bad yet on Stony Ridge Observatory...

Oh, that's the one on Mt Mooney, right? I love that place.

cougarmagic wrote:Oh, that's the one on Mt Mooney, right? I love that place.

Yeah, on a high point just south of Mooney. Great views from that area of Devil's Cyn., Twin Peaks' famous west ridge (right, AW? ) and Waterman.

Here's a brief update as of 9-3-09:

Interestingly, the ENPLAN Wildfire map still shows no fire having gone to the top of Vetter, but since the news of the lookout's burning is posted on the ANFFLA web site, it is probably true.


As a whole, the lines around the southwest, west, and north seem to be holding, but our dear San Gabriels still faces severe threats in the northeast and even more so in the southeast.


In the northeast, fires are continuing to work around the northern side of Bare Mountain. Hopefully, fire crews will be able to prevent the fire from crossing Bare Mountain Canyon to the east, which would then threaten the Winston Ridge-Pleasant View Ridge backcountry.


A much worse scenario is taking place on the southeast boundary of the fire, where the entire length of the north-south running portion of Devil's Canyon has been engulfed. Several new lobes now appear moving up the eastern tributaries toward the heart of the San Gabriel Wilderness Area, much of which is a vast ocean of thick brush. On the ENPLAN map, the fire has topped the far western end of the long ridge that extends west from Twin Peaks into Devil's Canyon. The northernmost portion of the Devil's Canyon conflagration has reached the 'elbow' where the canyon makes a 90 degree turn to the east before heading up to the Waterman-Twin Peaks saddle, about two miles distant.


The Big Santa Anita Canyon drainage, containing historic Sturtevant's Camp and the picturesque cabins from the 1900-1920s era, is coming under greater threat as the fire has now advanced close to Newcomb Pass and the ridge that runs westward from there up to the summit of Mount Wilson.

mattmaxon wrote:The Beast is now mostly out of the urban interface though it is very stubborn over toward Magic Mtn, wind could push it down to Sand Cyn, Santa Clarita in a very short time.

There is a bit of renewed vigor below Pacifico Mtn over Bare Mtn and SF Little Rock Creek

The main action is in the SE claw of the beast.

The fire has held at the head of Santa Anita Cyn so far OTOH it has made relentless progress toward Twin Peaks

To see the actively burning areas at the head of SA cyn you'll need to shut off the "Last 12 hrs 0430 PDT 0903" layer by unchecking it

It's a limitation I've yet to over come in GE if you got a clue as to how to deal with this let me know how

Here is the latest info I have
http://mattmaxon.homeip.net/data/Fire%2 ... 200903.kml

Thanks for all of your hard work in the early a.m. getting out some updated maps. It is very useful.

HikeUp wrote:

cougarmagic wrote:Oh, that's the one on Mt Mooney, right? I love that place.

Yeah, on a high point just south of Mooney. Great views from that area of Devil's Cyn., Twin Peaks' famous west ridge (right, AW? ) and Waterman.

lol, yeah AW looks like the west ridge just opened up for us

cougarmagic wrote:http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_13249713

Alders survived? Water still flowing? good good good....

Hallelujah!!

I was hoping a few "pockets of green" would survive. Unlike the brush above, riparian plants have a lot of water content.

lol. From the photos, I can see that people are taking the forest closure seriously. Well, actually that's city of Pasadena there, isn't it. Hmm. Mt. Lukens is City of Los Angeles. Monrovia Canyon is City of Monrovia. Mt. Wilson trail is City of Sierra Madre. Closure smosure! We don't need no stinkin' closure!

Zé wrote:

HikeUp wrote:

cougarmagic wrote:Oh, that's the one on Mt Mooney, right? I love that place.

Yeah, on a high point just south of Mooney. Great views from that area of Devil's Cyn., Twin Peaks' famous west ridge (right, AW? ) and Waterman.

lol, yeah AW looks like the west ridge just opened up for us

Well, maybe the Mermaids and Triplet will be in reach.

Still no official word on the presumed forest closure.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/orders/

AW wrote:Sad for the wildlife in the area ..its one of the few areas they could sort of chill out, now hopefully they remember how to get out of there.

I wonder what all the Big Horn Sheep in the high country think of all the displaced mtn. lions showing up in their neighborhood.

Here is the morning update from the Angeles Crest Christian Camp Website.

As of Thursday, September 3, at 10:00 a.m., Angeles Crest Christian Camp is safe and clear!

There are many who are also asking about Newcomb's Restaurant which is a mile down the road on Highway 2. The latest word is that Newcomb's is still safe at this time.

L.A. County still has a full crew of firefighters up on the mountain at Angeles Crest. They worked all day yesterday and also during the night to prepare for the advancing fire. We have word this morning that all firefighters are out working on the lines to create firebreaks down in Chilao campgrounds and on Highway 2 near the entrance to the camp (Sulphur Springs Road).

The fire has spread up Devil's Canyon south of the camp and south of Newcomb's restaurant. It is moving in the direction of the camp and restaurant. So far, everything is still safe up at the camp and the firefighters are optimistic about their chance to head off the fire and contain it.

Regarding the wildife, the cliffs on Williamson may be getting crowded, but in the long run the habitat for bighorn in the SGW will benefit from this fire.

In the late 1980's, we saw a Mountain Lion chasing a Bighorn near the lower falls in Devil Canyon.

BTW, have anyone been to that natural depression on the west ridge of Twin Peaks ?? You have to hike up the upper reaches of Devils Canyon then head south up the ridge.

Scott Johnson

On the news last night was some rumor and conjecture that the fire was actually started by USFS personnel.
Just rumor though.
And in a press conference the Forest Supervisor (who looked very overwhelmed like she wanted to go back and hide under desk) seemed to backtrack on the comment of it being human caused and that they were investigating every possibility.

Thanks for that update Scott! I'm very glad to hear they're working up there. I was getting the impression nothing was happening. (whether from bad conditions, bad management, bad luck, whatever - I didn't know).

I have heard the sheep really love recent burn areas. The new plant growth is softer and more nutritious, and the wide open spaces put the lions at a disadvantage (they like to stalk).

Well, I'm not sure which side I'm on here... but if some animal is going to benefit, that's good enough for me right now. Better habitat means more sheep, which means more lion food, so it's all good. And fat sheep can't run as fast...

Still worried about Waterman though. That gorgeous open pine forest, never been logged, never burned, just pure goodness. And I never got to Twin Peaks, not even "near" Twin Peaks!

Found this interview on KPCC with Darrell Martinelli who runs Newcomb's Ranch.

http://www.scpr.org/news/2009/09/03/sta ... mbs-ranch/

Scott Johnson

HikeUp wrote:

AW wrote:Sad for the wildlife in the area ..its one of the few areas they could sort of chill out, now hopefully they remember how to get out of there.

I wonder what all the Big Horn Sheep in the high country think of all the displaced mtn. lions showing up in their neighborhood.

They think hopefully they alll burned!

Hey Cave,

I have some of those fat sheep at work , Want to help in thinning out the herd ??

Scott Johnson

It's effective "from 12:00 p.m. on September 3, 2009, until the Station Fire is fully contained."

The legal description is as follows: "The Station Fire Closure Area consists of all National Forest System lands within the Angeles National Forest bounded by California State Route 14 (Antelope Valley
Freeway) on the north, then continuing northeast to California State Route 138 (Pearblossom Highway), then continuing east to California Interstate 15 (Ontario Freeway/Barstow Freeway), then continuing south to California Interstate 210 (Foothill Freeway), then continuing west to the starting point."

The order and links to a map are on InciWeb, here:

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/article/9409/

There is a big chunk of San Bernardino National Forest that is WEST of
I-15 (the border between Angeles Forest and San Bernardino Forest runs across Circle Mountain to Wright Mountain to Pine Mountain to Dawson to Baldy to Harwood to Thunder to Telegraph, Timber, Bighorn, Ontario and down to Frankish Peak near San Antionio Dam.) The Angeles Forest closure doesn't close the San Bernardino Forest, only the Angeles Forest. (No duh, huh?) So it MIGHT be legal to climb Baldy from Lytle Creek ... I don't know and you should contact the Lytle Creek Ranger Station for information:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/c ... reek.shtml

I've found another source for much more detailed information on the MODIS data

I'm working on a map but this has more divisions in the data

anyway the "most" active area in the south claw of the beast is in the Devils Cyn

The last pass of the satellite didn't have any new detections for the head of santa anita canyon. Since I've never followed the data this way I don't know if this is a good sign or not

But I'll take anything I can get!

There are 2 satellites Aqua & Terra so there should be 4 daily sets of data,

There are times in the data but I'm not sure what they are GMT or ?

EnFuego wrote:So it MIGHT be legal to climb Baldy from Lytle Creek

Eh, I'm just going to climb Mt San Gorgonio this weekend.

scott johnson wrote:Found this interview on KPCC with Darrell Martinelli who runs Newcomb's Ranch.

http://www.scpr.org/news/2009/09/03/sta ... mbs-ranch/

Scott Johnson

It's actually Darren.. they said it right in the interview, but misspelled it on the page.

thanks for the link! Darren is a great guy and glad to hear he's safe.