Forum Update

[Sean]

I've been going through individual topic threads to get a better understanding of how members use the various forums here. One notable takeaway is that people post many topics in the General Discussion forum which, ideally, should be in other forums. Thus, I have spent some time re-sorting these topics. And now we have a decent idea of how popular each main subject matter actually is. Here is the percentage breakdown:

General Discussion: 21.9% of total posts
News & Conditions: 19.5%
Trip Reports: 40.4%
Other SoCal Ranges: 0.5%
Flora/Fauna/Fungi: 6.8%
Gear: 5.2%
Pub: 4.2%
Question/Comment: 1.5%

Another, more obvious, point is that many redundant threads have been created over the years, for such things as water and snow reports and trail and general conditions. I've now merged most of these redundant threads and created sticky posts to guide users looking for such information.

Of course, users are always free to post wherever they want. But I might be more active now in moving posts to a more appropriate forum when necessary, and perhaps even merging certain redundant topics with prior threads after the poster has gotten an answer or reply.

Given all this, I'm also considering a few changes at the more noticeable forum-level, and I invite your comments.

1. Should the General Discussion forum be moved to the spot below Trip Reports? I believe this might cut down on misplaced News/Conditions and TR topics that get posted in the General Discussion Forum. It will also place News at the top, which I think is a more logical spot for it. And TRs bumps up one spot in the order, which I believe also makes sense, given its overwhelming popularity.

2. Should we put in some subforums? I think, at minimum, the Trip Reports section could benefit from a little organization. I don't want to get too crazy with the filing system, but perhaps visitors would appreciate TR subforums for the Sierra Nevadas, Deserts, and Other States. This would, by default, relegate the main TR forum to mostly SGM, with some Jacinto, Gorgonio, and minor SoCal ranges stuff in the mix.

3. Also, should we rename, clarify, and expand the Gear section? I'm thinking it should clearly include such things as clothing, accessories, supplies, tools, gadgets, maps, technology, hiking apps, food, drinks, supplements, nutrition, survival skills, performance techniques, fitness tracking, etc. Maybe call it "Clothes, Tools & Performance" and then have a detailed description underneath. Perhaps with a clearer name and description people will think of more things that they want to post in this particular forum. Expanding this section would result in 50+ threads being moved to it from General Discussion.

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

[RichardK]

Sean - Thank you for asking about this!

I have often thought that the forum has too many categories. The Mt. San Jacinto forum gets by with only 5. I have never been clear on the difference between General Discussion and News and Conditions. It seems that General Discussion, News and Conditions, Flora, Gear, and Pub could all be combined. Other SoCal Ranges could be merged into Trip Reports. In 2016, there were only 8 reports posted there. What about having only 3 categories:

Outdoor Talk

Trip Reports (for anywhere)

Administrative and Technical Topics

This approach may be an over simplification. I am curious what other members think.

[JeffH]

I like the idea of TR at the top, even without seeing the stats I figured it was the primary reason for people visiting. That's how I got started here...
Regarding the merging of threads, that may take some educating of folks regarding things like snow levels or water availability. Stickies at the top may help but the number of them should also be minimized so it's easy to find. Perhaps the big three of trails open, water, and snow.
Gear is definitely under-utilized, especially compared with other forums that I read so encouraging more discussion there is welcome.

[Sean]

The Mt. San Jacinto forum gets by with only 5.

For reference here, the five forums at the SanJ site are:

1. Mt San Jacinto & Santa Rosa Mtns
2. Outdoors-related Topics
3. Outdoor Gear & Apparel, Food, Books
4. General Chat
5. Announcements & Feedback

The first two forums get almost all the posts. The third forum has yet to see a post in 2017. The last two forums, no posts in twelve months. Like our site, members at SanJ often use the first forum as an all-purpose posting ground, so there are many misplaced posts, despite there being only five sections.

Speaking generally, any site might work with only one forum, dumping everything on any subject together into one big messy pile. Such a minimalist approach to organization might be enough for users uninterested in past threads or exploring content by similar subject matter, or for those with extraordinary "search box" skills. However, it will not satisfy those interested in using a forum as a genuine resource that's easy to navigate or browse for related content.

Personally, I'd like to see this place become more like a library and less like a yard sale. I'd like to reach a happy medium between a minimalist and maximalist approach to organizing the database. To avoid both a cluttered and an OCD feel to the main page structure, I propose utilizing subforums to reduce the number of first-level categories, yet improve the ability to navigate for semi-popular subject matter. For example, what would you think of this layout?

1. News & Conditions
2. Trip Reports
2a. Sierra Nevadas
2b. Desert Ranges
2c. Out-of-state Hikes
3. General Discussion
3a. Flora & Fauna & Fungi
3b. Clothes, Gear & Technology
3c. Nutrition, Training, & Techniques
3d. Other SoCal Ranges
4. The Pub
5. Questions & Comments

[RichardK]

For example, what would you think of this layout?

1. News & Conditions
2. Trip Reports
2a. Sierra Nevadas
2b. Desert Ranges
2c. Out-of-state Hikes
3. General Discussion
3a. Flora & Fauna & Fungi
3b. Clothes, Gear & Technology
3c. Nutrition, Training, & Techniques
3d. Other SoCal Ranges
4. The Pub
5. Questions & Comments

How about a Trip Reports section for the San Gabes? Would not Other SoCal Ranges belong under Trip Reports? I assume that Desert Ranges are only California. Otherwise, does climbing Boundary Peak, Nevada, belong under Desert Ranges or Out-of-state Hikes?

Keep the ideas coming!

[Sean]

How about a Trip Reports section for the San Gabes? Would not Other SoCal Ranges belong under Trip Reports? I assume that Desert Ranges are only California. Otherwise, does climbing Boundary Peak, Nevada, belong under Desert Ranges or Out-of-state Hikes?

Keep the ideas coming!

To clarify, the three subforums under Trip Reports would also be trip report sections. 2, 2a, 2b, and 2c would all be devoted to trip reports. And 2, being the main forum, would still be primarily for the Gabes and nearby ranges.

Other SoCal Ranges is an open forum, not necessarily devoted to trip reports, but general chat. It's a bit redundant, but helps to separate local non-Gabes discussion. It doesn't have many posts, possibly because it's a more recent addition on a site created for the Gabes. We could also add a TR sub for Other SoCal Peaks, if enough people want that.

Desert Ranges would only be for CA deserts. Arizona stuff, for example, would go in Out-of-state. Boundary Peak is a little unique, but I think it should go in Out-of-state, since it's technically in Nevada. But the authors would have a say in where their trip report goes. I wouldn't move new TRs against an active author's wish. In fact, I only plan to move older TRs that have already had their time in the spotlight. For example, if a report on the Grand Canyon is posted to the main forum, I would wait at least a month before moving it to Out-of-state, and only if interest in it has died down. Depending on the situation, I could also create a shadow topic, so that the report temporarily appears in both the main forum and the sub.

[Sean]

What about having only 3 categories:

Outdoor Talk

Trip Reports (for anywhere)

Administrative and Technical Topics

This approach may be an over simplification. I am curious what other members think.

Admin & Tech Support
Updates, questions, and feedback about this site.

How's that?

"Outdoor Talk" is quite a broad concept. I prefer Mountain Talk/Chat/Discussion. Also, I still am attached to the idea of having a separate forum for News. I want there to be a solid line between news and gossip. I might be persuaded though to fold Conditions into Mountain Talk.

[Sean]

Stickies at the top may help but the number of them should also be minimized so it's easy to find. Perhaps the big three of trails open, water, and snow.

I hope to keep the number of sticky posts to five or less per forum, so that one need not scroll down to find new topics. Announcements and Stickies could be segregated from normal posts by tweaking the template design. But fiddling with the template is my least priority right now. I'm not even sure what could be done in that regard without access to the owner panel.

[HikeUp]

Currently we have "Trip Reports" and "Other SoCal Ranges" I think.

Seems like a lot of the TR's that are put in the Trip Reports subforum are from other ranges (non-San Gabriel range). Might be why the number of posts in the "Other SoCal Ranges" sub-forum seems low. Just saying, not really making a point.

I like a strictly "San Gabriel TR" sub-forum and a "Other TR" because this is a San Gabriel forum and the other stuff is interesting but a minor focus of the forum. Summitpost is the all encompassing forum. Do we want to compete with that?

A bigger issue to me is the title used for TR's. I think the title should include trail/peak/canyon name and the date(s) of the hike (I prefer yyyy/mm/dd format). In my opinion this would help to search and find a TR that you want.

Thanks for your work. This forum is always a good read about one of my favorite places on the planet. Keeps this San Gabe greybeard entertained.

[RichardK]

The new look is very clean and well organized. I like it. Good job!!

[Sean]

The new look is very clean and well organized. I like it. Good job!!

Thank you. And thank you all for the suggestions. I agreed with several of them and was able to incorporate them into the new configuration. It's a work in progress. So anyone with further comments or suggestions is invited to post their thoughts here.

I have been sorting old trip reports into the new sections. I still have a few hundred to work through. This process has raised some further questions.

1. Should reports for the Los Padres NF be archived separately? Currently I'm putting them in SoCal, which includes many reports for San Jacinto and San Gorgonio. I think I'll leave San J and G mixed together in SoCal, since those ranges have their own devoted forums elsewhere on the web. But does the Los Padres have a forum? We have several members who love the Los Padres and post their trips here. This is why I'm leaning toward making a new subforum archive for it, even though I hesitate to increase the number of subs.

2. Currently there is a dead zone in my TR archives scheme. Central and Northern California ranges that are not in the Sierra Nevadas have no place to go. I don't think there are enough of these reports to justify yet another subforum. So, should I leave them sitting in the main Other Ranges TR forum, or expand one of the subs to include them?

[RichardK]

1. Should reports for the Los Padres NF be archived separately?

Let the members who hike and post about the Los Padres decide.

Central and Northern California ranges that are not in the Sierra Nevadas have no place to go.

There are probably not enough reports from these areas to justify a separate section.


What I like about this forum is, while it concentrates on the San Gabes, the members have wide ranging interests and abilities. It is a fascinating community.

[Uncle Rico]

Should reports for the Los Padres NF be archived separately?

Being the selfish and self-indulgent bastard that I am, I kind of like the idea of a separate sub-forum for the Los Padres. There really is not that many good, interactive resources for the Los Padres out there, at least not that I'm aware of.

[Sean]

Should reports for the Los Padres NF be archived separately?

Being the selfish and self-indulgent bastard that I am, I kind of like the idea of a separate sub-forum for the Los Padres. There really is not that many good, interactive resources for the Los Padres out there, at least not that I'm aware of.

After chewing on this idea for awhile, I went ahead and sorted older Los Padres TRs into their own subforum archive. While I respect Rico's passion, his was the only voice really championing the move. What really convinced me to do this was the numbers. I found over seventy pre-2017 reports devoted to Los Padres trips. And most of them are really well done and fascinating adventures. I figure that alone justifies another sub, which will make it a lot easier to browse and search for Los Padres-specific content.