Lost Hiker-Los Padres Tar Creek

David R · Post by **David R** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:30 am

He sounds pretty experienced and a bit of an odd disappearance with another hiker.

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2014/jun/16/ ... er=popular

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:29 am

Does sound kind of weird that neither dog nor man has been found. A little sparse on the details at this point though.

HJ

David R · Post by **David R** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:11 pm

Update with more details on the search:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/local/mount ... -w55432187

Teejate · Post by **Teejate** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:43 pm

David R wrote: ↑Update with more details on the search:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/local/mount ... -w55432187

This hasn't made sense to me from day one. Running out of camp without your boots on? Really?

And I read that his buddy said that he'd thought the firefighter went back to the car on his own. Not sure I'm buying that either.

Only thing that's making a little sense to me is an abduction by some pot growers.

Sure hope he's found safe. But I think there's going to be more to this story.

DavidCrashStillman · Post by **DavidCrashStillman** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:36 am

I agree, at first glance this seems to be a confusing case. However, as with most stories of a similar nature it can probably be reduced to a series of bad choices.

1.) He brought his dog down the Sespe, which is not a dog friendly kind of terrain. The dog is a hunting breed and instinctively programmed to chase things. In this case the dog was a liability.
2.) He went after the dog in the first place.
3.) Compounding things, he went after the dog barefoot and undressed into an area he did not know.

Despite all his supposed experience, it only takes a couple bad decisions...
My only question about this case is, how does one get lost in a drainage?

To address the pot grow suggestion, I spend a lot of time off trail and have stumbled onto these sites at least 20 times. Fortunately for me, they've all been from prior seasons, though I did have a run in with a narco on the Sespe several years back. It was a bit tense. It is a lot easier to find a pot grow operation than it is to find a missing person, especially with both air support and boots on the ground. I don't think that is the case here.

At first blush this may seem a fantastical suggestion, but what I am beginning to think happened is that he got injured somehow and was later dragged into the brush by a cat.
-DS

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:58 am

I like the mountain lion attack. Two days hike seems a little remote for a pot farm, but you never. They have been searching with helicopters and IR equipped drones. I seriously doubt there is a live person to be found in that area.

Running off with no shoes is the puzzling part. If it wasn't a mountain lion he either fell into a crack they haven't explored or they need to start questioning his buddy.

Another update: http://ktla.com/2014/06/20/search-for-m ... on-mounts/

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:14 am

According to the link below they searchers found human footprints in the area. They also found a marijuana grow nearby.

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/2 ... ter-search

tpfishnfool · Post by **tpfishnfool** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:37 am

Is that area near sespe and lions camp ? Search party in action ?

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:46 am

tpfishnfool wrote: ↑Is that area near sespe and lions camp ? Search party in action ?

In the link below I can see Sespe Creek nearby.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2 ... 1s0x0:0x0

Post by **Uncle Rico** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:58 am

tpfishnfool wrote: ↑Is that area near sespe and lions camp ? Search party in action ?

I understood that the search area is along the Sespe, but considerably further east. They apparently hiked out of Dough Flat north of Fillmore into the Condor Sanctuary.

http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=34.52241 ... 5&z=14&b=t

VermillionPearlGirl · Post by **VermillionPearlGirl** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:22 pm

I've always wanted to hike this area. This gives me some pause. Weird story. No idea what could have happened.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:01 pm

If you ever get the chance to go from Dough Flat into the Condor Refuge, pass on it. I once spent three days there in 1984 -- on a one day hike. David Stillman excepted.

HJ

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:48 pm

Hikin_Jim wrote: ↑If you ever get the chance to go from Dough Flat into the Condor Refuge, pass on it.

It ain't a walk in the park with your granny, that's for sure. But still...search dogs should have been able to sniff something out.

It's a weird story to me too - I've been in there a few times. Though it is rugged, with lots of big boulders and pools, it's tough to get 'lost'. Follow the Sespe downstream and you get to Fillmore, probably meeting other hikers along the way.

I'd like to head out there myself if I can talk a friend or two into going with me.

Post by **Uncle Rico** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 pm

I once spent three days there in 1984 -- on a one day hike.

TR?

Mike P · Post by **Mike P** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:33 pm

If things don't turn out well, sometimes the condors can lead you to the victim...

This has happened on a few occasions in the Grand Canyon. See Michael P. Ghiglieri's book, Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon.

(NOT trying to be insensitive...)

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:47 pm

Mike P wrote: ↑If things don't turn out well, sometimes the condors can lead you to the victim...

This has happened on a few occasions in the Grand Canyon. See Michael P. Ghiglieri's book, Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon.

(NOT trying to be insensitive...)

Not unreasonable. It might be a good thing that they have not mentioned them at the search site.

A dead beaver washed up in a creek mouth about 100 feet from the house. I spotted it after noticing thirty or forty varied vultures in the trees above. The water had just gone down but they knew it was there.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:52 pm

Uncle Rico wrote: ↑
I once spent three days there in 1984 -- on a one day hike.
TR?

Maybe I should.

HJ

DavidCrashStillman · Post by **DavidCrashStillman** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:31 am

I've been considering doing Sulphur Peak tomorrow (there is no trail) and glassing for vultures over what I keep hearing/reading is the search area. -DS

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:14 am

Might be worth a shot. Ya never know.

Somewhat tangential comment:
When my dad went missing in 2004, I spent a lot of time watching the SAR op. What struck me was that the full time sheriff's deputies who were the SAR coordinators, knew far less than the individuals on the teams that were out in the field. In other words, the person(s) assigning routes and coordinating the various teams were full time sheriff's deputies that may or may not have much in the way of talent or experience in terms of SAR ops. That was in San Bernardino County. It may be different elsewhere.

Now, I'm not trying to criticize since I'm by no means a SAR expert; I merely report what I observed.

When I spoke to some friends who were SAR team members, they felt that some of my conjectures as to my dad's location made sense. I got nowhere with the full time deputies. When my dad was found, he was found in an area entirely consistent with my conjectures.

Again, not to criticize. My dad was dead the minute he hit the ground, and every member of the SAR op meant business and gave it their all, whether full time deputy or volunteer. All were courteous and professional to me and my family.

All this to say that there may be reasons that someone might not be found even if you have very skilled searchers in the field.

HJ

Post by **tekewin** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:42 pm

This story smelled fishy to me from the start, like the two young hikers who supposedly got lost on the Holy Jim trail who later turned out to be eating psilocybin mushrooms.

I loved my dog before he died, but I would not have run into the forest without my shoes to find him. How far or fast could he have gone without shoes anyway? Why would he not spend 45 seconds putting on boots before chasing his dog?

Whatever happened, it doesn't look like this story has a happy ending.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:29 pm

tekewin wrote: ↑ How far or fast could he have gone without shoes anyway?

Yeah, I was kind of wondering that myself.

Love triangle? Affair? Something ain't right here.

HJ

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:41 pm

Hikin_Jim wrote: ↑
tekewin wrote: ↑ How far or fast could he have gone without shoes anyway?
Yeah, I was kind of wondering that myself.

Love triangle? Affair? Something ain't right here.

HJ

The news reports said they do not suspect foul play, however the story defies logic unless he fell into a nearby hole,mineshaft, ravine or crevice. Strange things do happen, but more often people kill one another for the dumbest of reasons.

Perhaps he never entered the park and is buried in another place. Wasn't the dog found closer to the trail head than the camp?

VermillionPearlGirl · Post by **VermillionPearlGirl** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:09 pm

Story on finding the dog: http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/06/ ... -fillmore/

It does say close to the trailhead, which is a two day hike right?

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:24 pm

VermillionPearlGirl wrote: ↑Story on finding the dog: http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/06/ ... -fillmore/

It does say close to the trailhead, which is a two day hike right?

Two days in and two days out?

"Herdman, 36, vanished June 13 during a four-day hike with a fellow firefighter. "

Source: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

They also said:

"An earlier version of this post incorrectly stated that the dog was found at the campsite. It was found near the trail head."

Post by **Uncle Rico** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:27 pm

The 2 day in thing doesn't make sense to me, although it's hard to tell from reports what their route was. It sounds to me like they entered at Dough Flat and his buddy exited at the Tar Creek trailhead. Which means they established camp where, Alder Creek? Hardly 2 days from Dough Flat. It's like 6 miles. And if they were going to camp at Alder, why did his buddy exit down the Sespe? You'd think he'd trek back to Dough Flat.

That having been said, I'm not buying the speculation that his buddy should somehow be implicated. In order to believe that, you'd have to accept his buddy either intentionally becoming dehydrated and disoriented in the hopes of being found by someone while walking down the Sespe in order to support an alibi, or pretending to become dehydrated and disoriented. Seems unlikely.

I don't believe there are any old mineshafts in the areas, so I'm going with Stillman's theory. Hope I'm wrong and they still find the guy alive, him being a fellow explorerer and all.

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:47 pm

Just to confound things the news media often gets details incorrect. Even being there might not give the entire picture.

I would be interested to know if they used any tracking dogs. They have foot prints and objects with the victim's scent so they should have a good scent trail to follow. Even if, heaven forbid, Stillman's theory is correct, there should be a trail to follow.

Again, relying on news reports, the victim was the experienced one of the pair. This was a first backpacking trip for the buddy so getting lost might not tell us anything definitive. If he is involved, why would he make up an (unlikely) story about the guy running off with no shoes? Dumb criminal or a need to explain the presence of shoes at camp?

Going back to the victim, the barefoot part is very troubling. Unless he was used to going shoeless I wouldn't think he would have gone very far from their camp. Even with a big moon night I cannot imagine jumping up and running into the brush shoeless and without a light. Dogs and dog owners are different, but calling the dog would be better than chasing which is just going to make the dog run.

Short search video: http://youtu.be/1cDnHHQcWKs

DavidCrashStillman · Post by **DavidCrashStillman** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:30 am

Good morning,
Aside from the massive multi-agency response (which the rest of us should never expect because we're not sacred cows, um, I meant firefighters), they used search dogs, scent dogs, helicopters and drones with FLIR, they even used a special animal rescue team from LA County. A ridiculous amount of resources went into this search. And that rescuer's snake bitten hand? Multiply 53 vials of antivenin times about $9,000/unit.

My understanding is that this was a two day single overnight. It's around 8 miles from Dough Flat to the Sespe. The search area primarily focused on terrain below Sulphur Peak which indicates that they had left Dough, either descending to the Sespe from Alder Creek Camp or they did the up-and-over from there to Coltrell (+1 mile) and then turned down the Sespe.

I suspect they arrived somewhere downstream of where Alder Creek meets the Sespe in the late afternoon. There is an unsanctioned "Sandbar Camp on the Sespe about 0.6 miles below the junction of those creeks. This would put them directly under the west side of Sulphur Peak as indicated by some news reports.

I suppose that to the general zombie public this guy's outdoor resume implied a measure of experience. His behaviors say otherwise, and there are plenty of people out there who've claimed or been held up as examples of the experienced and rugged outdoorsman. Ironically, you never hear about those people until they go missing or turn up dead. As I stated previously, one need not look for a mysterious love triangle, murder, aliens, leprechauns or banditos for an explanations. Most of the time the simplest answer is the most elegant. In this case, the known truth is that this guy made a series of incredibly stupid and naive blunders.

I have since received second-hand information that my supposition that he got injured and was later dragged into the brush by a cat is the prevailing feeling among the search coordinators.
-DS

Gene · Post by **Gene** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:59 am

DavidCrashStillman wrote: ↑Good morning,
Aside from the massive multi-agency response (which the rest of us should never expect because we're not sacred cows, um, I meant firefighters), they used search dogs, scent dogs, helicopters and drones with FLIR, they even used a special animal rescue team from LA County. A ridiculous amount of resources went into this search. And that rescuer's snake bitten hand? Multiply 53 vials of antivenin times about $9,000/unit.

My understanding is that this was a two day single overnight. It's around 8 miles from Dough Flat to the Sespe. The search area primarily focused on terrain below Sulphur Peak which indicates that they had left Dough, either descending to the Sespe from Alder Creek Camp or they did the up-and-over from there to Coltrell (+1 mile) and then turned down the Sespe.

I suspect they arrived somewhere downstream of where Alder Creek meets the Sespe in the late afternoon. There is an unsanctioned "Sandbar Camp on the Sespe about 0.6 miles below the junction of those creeks. This would put them directly under the west side of Sulphur Peak as indicated by some news reports.

I suppose that to the general zombie public this guy's outdoor resume implied a measure of experience. His behaviors say otherwise, and there are plenty of people out there who've claimed or been held up as examples of the experienced and rugged outdoorsman. Ironically, you never hear about those people until they go missing or turn up dead. As I stated previously, one need not look for a mysterious love triangle, murder, aliens, leprechauns or banditos for an explanations. Most of the time the simplest answer is the most elegant. In this case, the known truth is that this guy made a series of incredibly stupid and naive blunders.

I have since received second-hand information that my supposition that he got injured and was later dragged into the brush by a cat is the prevailing feeling among the search coordinators.
-DS

David, Thank you for your cogent summary. Putting his outdoor skills in perspective and sharing some important details, not available in the news, do indeed point to the simple answer.

You are also correct about the response for, 'One of their own.' It may be that too many cooks in the kitchen have hampered the search.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:33 am

DavidCrashStillman wrote: ↑ one need not look for a mysterious love triangle, murder, aliens, leprechauns or banditos for an explanation.

Leprechauns! Dang it, it was the leprechauns.

OK, good point. We're trying too hard here.

DavidCrashStillman wrote: ↑I have since received second-hand information that my supposition that he got injured and was later dragged into the brush by a cat is the prevailing feeling among the search coordinators.

Yeah, and that is a rational explanation (although love triangle is way more interesting).

And I agree that "experienced" is a loaded term. If you do the same wrong thing for 10 years, well, are you an "experienced" outdoorsperson? And if all you do are fair weather, simple hikes, how experienced are you? I do a lot of hiking with my daughter. We go to the county park which has a (more or less) wild area. We'll hike for an hour, sometimes (gasp!) even an hour and a half. Does that make me "experienced?"

I learn a lot by hiking with new people (particularly those with more experience than I have), taking fairly serious hikes that require some research and planning, reading the thoughts of others on forums and blogs, and taking the occasional class (First Aid, Wilderness Travel, Leadership Training, etc.).

HJ

Augie · Post by **Augie** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:48 am

Good point David made about the missing person's profession having a lot to with the resources expended--a fact of life. Not to make light of a serious situation, but the only person I know of who goes barefoot outdoors is that guy on that "reality" show Dual Survival.

I'd be interested to know more about the snakebite incident and the use of 53 vials of anti-venom.