Annual Winter Mountaineering Clinic

Post by **Taco** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:38 pm

UPDATE 20141226: Please note that this thread is old, but the info is the same. I've changed the title from 2014 to Annual to make a bit more sense.

For 2015, the projected date is January 17. This will change if we do not receive enough snow. Deja vu!

Original post follows:

Much of this thread will be rather informal, but I will post up details when it's all worked out.

Projected date is sometime in the middle of January. What really matters is that conditions are right. I will try to post a week or more in advance, but conditions and terrain dictate.

Anywho, the gist of it is that a large group of us will be doing all kinds of winter mountaineering training in Baldy Bowl, from self-arrest to roped travel etc. Nobody is certified (yet), insured, whatever. We are good friends getting together to work on skills, learn, and have a good time together. If this sounds cool to you, read on.

I am going to be training with a handful of friends, so again this will be an informal event where you can go with these people over here and learn self-arrest, or these guys over here, or whatever. I figure we will have everyone meet at the Ski Hut and I will stand on my soap box and preach about the activities, and who is doing what.

I am also thinking of staying at the Ski Hut overnight, as I've never spent the night there and that's way cooler than bivying, which is for suckers.

I'm pretty excited to do this.

Past event: https://eispiraten.com/a ... ter+clinic

Johnny Bronson · Post by **Johnny Bronson** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:55 pm

=) I can help carry the soap box,dutch oven and hand grenades. Anything you need kind sir.
Here is a positive outlook for a great upcoming winter season!

fortified · Post by **fortified** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:14 pm

If "self arrest" only brings up a thought of perhaps arresting yourself before the police get there, to make it easy, ....I would guess this might not be a place for ones first time mountaineering?

outwhere · Post by **outwhere** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:04 pm

Taco wrote: at the Ski Hut and I will stand on my soap box and preach about the activities, and who is doing what.

Taco, this scene is classic enough already..... but what about throwin' on one of those stove pipe hats... i think it would complete a fine picture

besides, i think if you stand on a soap box, you HAVE to wear a stove pipe hat

[bad] jokes aside... i wish you and all tons of snow and fun... sounds like a good time...

Mike P · Post by **Mike P** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:10 pm

If my work schedule works out, I'm in! Thanks!

Beantown · Post by **Beantown** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:12 am

Is this open for beginners? I have no mountaineering experience and I'd like to learn safely and the right way

Post by **Taco** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:46 pm

This is open to anyone as long as they have crampons, an axe, and a helmet.

atypicaleric · Post by **atypicaleric** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:50 pm

I'm in!

Post by **JeffH** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:15 pm

Taco wrote:

This is open to anyone as long as they have crampons, an axe, and a helmet.

Do we need to know how to use them?
I have crampons, worn them twice. No axe, no helmet unless you count my bicycle lid which I doubt.
Reminds me, I found some older Camp rigid-type crampons in my garage when I moved, the kind that latch over the back of your mountaineering boots. Free to good home....

I am definitely in for this.

Beantown · Post by **Beantown** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:32 pm

I don't own crampons, I've ax or a helmet but I'll put them on my Xmas list. I don't know how to use then either but I have a general idea.

Max Falcon · Post by **Max Falcon** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:24 am

Im in! Schneeeeee! Weeeeeee!

Post by **Taco** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:29 am

You don't really need to know how to use them, as that's what the clinic is for. Still, find some material online on how to hold an ice axe in piolet canne self-arrest position, and familiarize yourself with the equipment before you're there.

The hike to the hut may require crampons. An axe or poles will probably be helpful.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:36 am

I'm interested. 8)

HJ

Post by **Taco** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:41 am

Jim, your presence would be an honor as always.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:13 pm

You appear to have misspelled "horror".

HJ

VermillionPearlGirl · Post by **VermillionPearlGirl** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:19 pm

If other total newbies are going, then I'll go

I've wanted to learn these things but haven't.
I've wanted to buy these items but haven't.

This is if I'm still here in January because I'm trying to move to Oregon. But I'm currently not trying very well. (Oregon will always be there, right?)

So for those of us who don't even own gear yet, how about some handy recommendations?

Also, you're awesome for doing this

bschmalz · Post by **bschmalz** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:25 pm

I'm interested in this as well

Post by **Taco** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:18 pm

We will probably have some loaner gear up there, and you guys should also use this opportunity to try out anything anyone else is kind enough to lend you for a quick test drive.

If I could recommend a general mountaineering axe for SoCal, I'd go with something light with a steel head and spike and an aluminium shaft. The Black Diamond Raven is nice, and there is a Raven Pro as well.

Hold the axe in your hand with your arms down at your side. The tip of the spike (at the bottom) should be at your anklebone level, according to conventional theory. If it's a little bit longer, it's better for nontechnical stuff like Baldy, San G, Rainier, less-steep slopes. Shorter is better for steeper. I would go with the conventional way first, leaving fancier axes for steeper terrain for later.

Crampons should ideally be a strap type that can fit on many different shoes and boots. Always go with steel crampons in the San Gabes. Aluminium ones require more careful use, and are usually for ski mountaineers. The Black Diamond Contact Strap 10-point crampon is pretty standard. An equal model from Petzl or another company is essentially the same with better this but worse that, the usual trade offs.

I'd suggest a helmet of course. A hard-shell helmet is probably best, though some folks wear the thinner lighter ones climbing sometimes. I've been hit by rockfall a lot of times before and only had it on the head a couple times, but I was glad it was a hardshell, or I'd need a new helmet. The theory is that with a hardshell, you can get hit more before having to get rid of the helmet. Personal choice though.

Footwear is anything waterproof for this clinic. Anything you feel safe on 45 degree snow with. If you plan on doing more mountaineering, buying a good set of light mountain boots such as the La Sportiva Trango would be a very good investment. A stiffer boot means more precision in climbing with crampons, and also makes kick-stepping very easy. That said, I'm sure we've all gone up the Bowl in trailrunners and strap crampons before.

Any other piece of gear I missed?

bschmalz · Post by **bschmalz** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:23 pm

I recently picked up a CORSA ice axe to use if I hit sketchy conditions and am worried about self arrest. I'm not planning on doing any technical climbing with it ever. I assume it should be sufficient for this trip. Am I correct in that assumption? I realize a more sturdy head would be better, but since I plan on carrying this on my pack 99 percent of the time and taking it on some sierra backpacking trips I wanted to keep the weight down.

Post by **Taco** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:34 pm

That sounds just fine to me. I don't think the aluminum head would be beaten on hard enough for it to be a problem. A hollow shaft might provide you with a method of flinging tubular snowballs at greater velocity.

bschmalz · Post by **bschmalz** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:35 pm

Excellent. Now I just need crampons and I qualify for the trip

. I mainly want to refresh my self arrest skills and maybe meet some like minded people. Thanks for putting this together.

VermillionPearlGirl · Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:00 pm

That definitely helps me know what to look for Taco!

I'll have to go dig out my old boots for the crampons! They're in the back of my closet somewhere. I've been hiking in Five Fingers for years now, even in the snow. But not like, yknow, the kind of snow you're talking about

Big winter jackets and base layers and waterproof clothing and heavy boots. I don't know how you guys even move! This should be interesting

Post by **Taco** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:52 am

Us fast guys don't wear big heavy anything if we can help it. I'll probably be in a t-shirt most of the time.

Post by **tekewin** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:26 am

I am definitely interested, and I have one friend interested as well.

I have some minimal experience in snow and have just completed my gear (except helmet). Grivel G10 crampons and BD raven axe. I plan to hit something high in the Gabes this month, not sure what yet.

As long as there is not a work conflict, I'll be there.

Thanks in advance for doing this!

Phil B · Post by **Phil B** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:15 pm

This sounds like a fun and worthwhile way to brush up on our skills, I'm in if it's on a weekend, also have a spare helmet and other stuff if anyone needs it.
Maybe have a few beers afterwards??????

aklackner · Post by **aklackner** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:36 am

I'm up to get in some training! I'll be in Mexico 1/10-1/20 to climb Itza, Orizaba, and bum around some, but any weekend outside of that I should be good to go. If there's interest I can bring my crevasse rescue kit and\or avy gear and we can practice if we find a suitable area.

Post by **JeffH** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:14 am

Need to get more white stuff soon so I can participate, now I'm scheduled for knee surgery on Jan 16. No hiking for eight weeks after that.

thiseukaryote · Post by **thiseukaryote** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:23 pm

Count me in!

What time would you guys be heading up to stay overnight at the ski hut? I would be up for that as well, if there are people heading up after work the day before.
I've only been up there once, so not sure if I should try getting there by myself in the dark.

Jeremiah_Johnson · Post by **Jeremiah_Johnson** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:22 pm

Hi-
New to the forum...
Have required gear and would love to join.
Might need a ride from Echo Park though.

Post by **HikeUp** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:47 pm

Great movie.