Santa Ana Mtns:Missing hiker found

Rescues, fires, weather, roads, trails, water, etc.
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AW~
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Post by AW~ »

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/04/ ... ay-search/

The hiker was identified by a volunteer very close to the lost hikers' car. I would have something to say about the Orange County sheriffs(&Cleveland National Forest) who ran this joke of an operation, but will keep silent :D

I guess Im used to the reports from various agencies for the San Gabriel mountains, where searching for lost hikers is routine. The other part is we have this forum and are not imprisoned in some fakebook account like this search was.

Adding to my 2 cents, I thought it would be helpful if we had a secondary mailing list/communication list to better coordinate amongst the various groups like Meetup to assist the searchers if they wanted it.
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HikeUp
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Post by HikeUp »

They found her too - yay.

I'm curious as to where they were found. The chatter on the SAR radio mentioned Bell Trail (I think) which is the ridge/canyon on the south side of Trabuco Cyn. Lots of articles mention they were found near Falls Canyon Falls which is of course on the north side of Trabuco Cyn. Any info on locations?
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phstudio
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Post by phstudio »

I just read that she was found in Holy Jim Canyon.

I've never been there, but after looking at maps of the area, it seems that all of the canyons converge at the trailhead parking lot. Unless, that is, they went over ridge line into Riverside county. I guess it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of inexperienced hikers, but I can't see how someone can get so lost like that, barring injury, of course.
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AW~
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Post by AW~ »

From what I gather, here was the end result...x being the car and both found in the same general area- where the lost hikers said they were in the first place.

Image

From what I recall, he was found 500-600ft higher than the road and she was found at 200-300ft higher.
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lilbitmo
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Post by lilbitmo »

AW wrote: From what I gather, here was the end result...x being the car and both found in the same general area- where the lost hikers said they were in the first place.

Image

From what I recall, he was found 500-600ft higher than the road and she was found at 200-300ft higher.
The ridge in the bottom of that picture is Bell Ridge which gives you great views down into Trabuco Canyon proper, had someone gone up there and walked that ridge they just might have been able to spot them but it's very thick in there so who knows, glad they got her before another day passed, chances are it would have gotten ugly by tomorrow.
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HikeUp
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Post by HikeUp »

Thanks AW, that's the side of the canyon I figured based on the radio chatter.

I can't wait (actually I can) to find out why they were there. Not gonna bother speculating.
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Sean
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Post by Sean »

phstudio wrote: I guess it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of inexperienced hikers...
He wasn't wearing shoes.

Maybe you could put yourself in his board shorts.
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Hiker Phil
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Post by Hiker Phil »

Sean wrote:
phstudio wrote: I guess it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of inexperienced hikers...
He wasn't wearing shoes.

Maybe you could put yourself in his board shorts.
I am curious...will these "hikers" be billed for their rescue?
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lilbitmo
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Post by lilbitmo »

Hiker Phil wrote:
Sean wrote:
phstudio wrote: I guess it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of inexperienced hikers...
He wasn't wearing shoes.

Maybe you could put yourself in his board shorts.
I am curious...will these "hikers" be billed for their rescue?
That almost never happens because if people thought that it would be "cost prohibitive" then they might not call, then more would die and lawsuit would abound.

Typically the charges start when you get off the aircraft/helicopter.

If they think you did something extremely unsafe and put others at risk then they may go after you in court, just depends on circumstances.

Being less than a mile from the bottom of the canyon really raises the question, why not walk down and out, are you telling me that they couldn't hear all the people below them, I don't care how thick it was I'm getting out of there in 24 hours after hearing all the noises below me in the canyon floor, and why split up? Lot to be answered on this one?
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AW~
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Post by AW~ »

lilbitmo wrote: Being less than a mile from the bottom of the canyon really raises the question, why not walk down and out, are you telling me that they couldn't hear all the people below them, I don't care how thick it was I'm getting out of there in 24 hours after hearing all the noises below me in the canyon floor, and why split up? Lot to be answered on this one?
Except he climbed a cliff(that he couldnt get down)after making the 911 call. It appears she(her first hike) did make an attempt at going down, but was completely unsuccessful. From what Im guessing, her attempt at the cliff to join him made her useless to achieve getting down....the media has updated it and said she was then found at a second steep area, shoeless, her mouth w/dirt and barely alive. :cry: They had some rotten luck for sure.
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atomicoyote
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Post by atomicoyote »

I've been back there many times and its fairly easy to keep yourself found. Only two major trails, Holy Jim and Trabuco Peak/West Horsethief, rise out of the canyon near its end. Both trails will take you up to the Main Divide Truck Trail, a nice wide dirt road which runs the length of the Santa Ana Mtns and is very popular with MTBr's, motorcycle riders, and even trail runners.

On all these trails you only have to head up or down to find civilization; either Trabuco Canyon Road or the Truck Trail. How these two got lost is beyond my comprehension.
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lilbitmo
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Post by lilbitmo »

Having discussed on another site what would have happened had either of them had the simplest backpack I started an "impromptu" survey of hikers on the Mount Baldy main trial today on my way down the mountain asking each hiker that had a backpack (the typical ones you get at an REI or Adventure 16) not the runners camel backs or ones that you get at a school supply place or such.

Here's the question we started asking - did you know you backpack had a built-in whistle. We even asked those people that had large whistle's hanging from their pack - 3 people out of 22 asked realized that they were carrying a whistle that is built into their pack. Some where completely shocked that it was there, three people told us they had whistles but did not realize that their pack strap also had one right below their chins.

That means 13.64% of the people knew it was there. That means that 86.36% did not. Had either of these two individuals even had a simple pack with a whistle built into the adjustment strap they could have gotten someone's attention on the first day - I'll bet there's a good many people on the discussion boards that don't even realize they have one or if they are using the packs that don't have one, are not carrying one.

A simple thing like a whistle can help rescue people find you, it's important that people carry one and look to see if their pack has a built in one - these poor kids could have been found by Monday at noon had they just carried that simple piece of equipment. (IMHO since they were so close to the road when they were found)

Funny how the little things matter in a life threatening situation.

Hope some people learn from this, be safe out there.

Lilbitmo
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ALAWH
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Post by ALAWH »

You just had me searching my Camelbak Luxe for a whistle. I don't think I have one! I do carry one in my pack though along with the international whistle code since I would probably never remember what means what! :oops:
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Sean
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Post by Sean »

lilbitmo wrote: Having discussed on another site what would have happened had either of them had the simplest backpack I started an "impromptu" survey of hikers on the Mount Baldy main trial ...
This wasn't a failure of equipment. It was a failure of common sense. We're talking about an easy to moderate 2.8 mile roundtrip hike to a popular waterfall area, right? How stupid do you have to be to mess that one up? Thousands of whistle-less, backpack-less people have done it without a problem, because they had enough common sense to follow rule number one: stay on the friggin trail!

I submit that if these kids had been smart enough to wear a backpack, then they wouldn't have been dumb enough to get lost on that particular trail. Putting together supplies for a backpack requires some thinking, planning ahead, and concern for one's safety, characteristics these kids apparently do not have.

That being said, you make a good argument for carrying a whistle--and knowing that you have one on you!
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hvydrt
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Post by hvydrt »

Sean wrote: It was a failure of common sense.
I don't think its common sense. It may seem like common sense to someone that has hiked a lot, but if its your first time out, something as simple as following an easy trail can be tricky. Those mountains are a very tough place once you get off the trail. My guess is they mistakenly followed a use trail then got disoriented and wore out from thrashing through the brush.
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Sean
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Post by Sean »

hvydrt wrote: ... if its your first time out, something as simple as following an easy trail can be tricky ...
Here is the first review on Yelp:

"This is my favorite hike in Orange County. It is family friendly if you are just going to the waterfall. The drive from the main road to the parking lot for the trail head is 4.5 miles, and the last 2.5 of it is very rugged - too rugged for small cars with poor clearance. It's about an hour of easy-to-moderate hiking each way to and from the waterfall. Plenty of parents carrying infants and toddlers made it, as did plenty of of preschool aged kids who were walking on their own. The poison oak was plentiful, so be careful when the trail gets thick."

http://www.yelp.com/biz/holy-jim-falls- ... Rp67nTs2zQ

My "Afoot & Afield" guidebook classifies the hike as "marked trails/obvious routes, easy terrain," and other reports I've read seem to concur with that assessment.

I'm not finding anything tricky about this trail. Isn't it basically a clear path up the canyon floor to a waterfall? Even if it's your first time, shouldn't you know enough not to leave the bottom of the canyon and begin scrambling up a steep, brushy slope?

I don't buy the use trail theory. I usually refrain from speculation, but in this case I suspect they purposefully abandoned the trail for one of the many different reasons people do. They subsequently exceeded their navigational abilities, got lost, ran out of water, didn't know what to do, and became further disoriented. To their credit, however, they were smart enough to make an emergency phone call and keep warm by covering themselves in brush. But those things were done out of extreme necessity. At the root of it, they are really dumb and shouldn't be in the mountains unless closely supervised by some of those preschool kids from the Yelp review.

Edit: I thought of one last way to belabor this point. If you analyze most cases where a hiker gets into serious trouble, you'll probably find that it was caused by a failure to reason or simply think things through a bit. For really dumb people such a failure easily occurs on the Holy Jim Trail. But for really smart people it might take severe oxygen deprivation 100 meters from the summit of Everest to induce extreme thoughtlessness and disregard for one's well-being. In both cases, it's the same problem, though: irrationality.
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ALAWH
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Post by ALAWH »

Sean, their car was parked and the rescues occurred about halfway down Trabuco Creek road, which indicates they were closer to Falls Canyon than to Holy Jim. They wouldn't have parked where they did if HJ, which is every bit as easy to follow as you've read, was their intended destination. I've never done Falls Canyon myself but from what I have read the trail is not nearly as apparent or heavily traveled as HJ.
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HikeUp
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Post by HikeUp »

It appears they were found on the south side of the canyon, opposite from where Falls Canyon is. If they had been on either HJ trail and/or the trail into Falls Canyon, they would have had to come back to the road, crossed it and climbed up through hellish brush to get where they were. Maybe that's what they did or maybe they were up on Bell Ridge (which is on the south side of Trabuco Cyn.) use trail and tried to descend directly to the road through hellish brush. Don't know what they did but they certainly didn't lose track of either establish trail and end up where they were found.

I think.
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Sean
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Post by Sean »

ALAWH wrote: They wouldn't have parked where they did if HJ ... was their intended destination.
Maybe they had a low-clearance vehicle and had to park further away from the trailhead due to poor road conditions. Plus, I thought they told the 911 operator that they were in Holy Jim Canyon. This would indicate their destination was the waterfall area. But who knows if they even made it to the trailhead. Cendoya isn't offering very much detail. Perhaps he's waiting for an appropriate cash offer for his story.
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atomicoyote
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Post by atomicoyote »

Disclosure: Haven't been up the Trabuco Creek trail in about 5 years, but I HAVE been up the Holy Jim Trail, latest trip being last fall.

The Trabuco Creek trail isn't hard to follow at all. It starts where the road ends (the trail is actually part of a closed-off truck trail) and is fairly well defined as it runs along Trabuco Creek. These folks were probably brand new to the area, didn't bring a map, tried guessing which way to go as they were driving up the canyon, and got lost really quickly.

Strange thing about this story is the waterfall they were trying to reach, since I've never heard of (or seen) a waterfall along the the Trabuco Creek trail. The only waterfall I've ever seen in the area is up the Holy Jim Trail (about 2.8 miles up that trail from the parking lot), and they probably drove right past that trailhead to get to the Trabuco Creek trail. Seems the reporters/editors are not checking facts (SOP for today's journalists :roll: ) and are more concerned with getting a dramatic story out to the public as quickly as possible.
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HikeUp
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Post by HikeUp »

Sigh.
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outwhere
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Post by outwhere »

When are we gonna find out the exact number of Easter 'brownies' these two polished off before things kicked in and it really became more than a day 'trip'...

Normally I'd blame these kind of shenanigans on excessive alcohol but they were under 21.... wait a minute, that never stopped some of us :P

Well, at least they didn't make their first trip into the mountains an Eaton Canyon, 2nd waterfall attempt...
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Hiker Phil
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Post by Hiker Phil »

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Sean
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Post by Sean »

"Asked how he managed to survive, Cendoya remembered eating plants ... He said his hallucinations were vivid. He thought he was 'in the afterlife' and grew so convinced he was being stalked by predators that he grabbed a sharp stick for defense."

That's odd. I remember having the same exact hallucination:

Image
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phstudio
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Post by phstudio »

I just read an Associated Press article about their little adventure. It's the best write up I've read so far. The moral of the story is, do not leave the trail so that you can "touch the clouds". For some reason they decided to bushwhack up to the top. D'oh!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... yline.html
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Sean
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Post by Sean »

Nicolas shows how he carried Kyndall down the mountain before falling and hitting his head in the pitch black darkness.

Image

We definitely are getting more information from Kyndall than Nicolas. In addition to admitting they went off trail to reach a mountaintop, she also admits to using a lighter to try to signal rescuers that first night.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/0 ... 45062.html

Why did she happen to be carrying a lighter? Is she a tobacco smoker who also likes to work out at the gym? I wish I could think of some reason why an irresponsible, clueless young woman would carry a lighter into a remote area of the wilderness with her boyfriend. Hmm...
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Hiker Phil
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Post by Hiker Phil »

There's gotta be more to what they are telling... Just don't add up.
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Hiker Phil
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Post by Hiker Phil »

Search and Rescue Costs: Who Pays?, http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local ... 37181.html
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Hiker Phil
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Post by Hiker Phil »

Here's the answer to the above questions:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... 9408.story
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outwhere
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Post by outwhere »

Hiker Phil wrote: There's gotta be more to what they are telling... Just don't add up.
I felt that way --- and kinda still do --- but then I was thinking that these two sprouts are just that... and maybe youthful confidence and lack of experience is what did them in, not some 'Super Duper'..

And since it was basically there first time in the hills/mountains...they just didn't know how serious it is if you screw with Mother Nature and go off trail when you have no experience.

But what I can't understand - [then again, I've never gone off trail like they did and run out of water] how did they start hallucinating so quickly ???

I believe they said they were seeing strange things on the first night they were lost...

Is that normal to start mind-tripping that soon after running out of water and food?

Sure wish the news channels had taken this opportunity to really stress the dangers of going off trail, especially when you have no experience to begin with. I don't think this factor was even mentioned outside of when Kyndall mentioned in the TV interview.

But yes, Sean... it hasn't left my mind either --- what's up with the lighter :P :P :P
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