Baldy summit vandalism

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:04 pm

This was the main wind shelter on the summit the last time I was up.

Post by **HikeUp** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:39 pm

I wonder if they'll tear down the ski hut next. And then shoot anyone wearing vibram soles - on sight.

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:59 pm

Someone also spray painted switchback numbers on the trees on Baden-Powell.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:31 pm

HikeUp wrote: ↑I wonder if they'll tear down the ski hut next. And then shoot anyone wearing vibram soles - on sight.

I am not usually a supporter of vigilantism, but I was thinking about stoning today.

Post by **HikeUp** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:51 pm

cougarmagic wrote: ↑Someone also spray painted switchback numbers on the trees on Baden-Powell.

Why isn't just taking a walk in the mountains good enough for people?

PackerGreg · Post by **PackerGreg** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:08 pm

Alan, how long did it take you to rebuild the shelter?

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:31 am

PackerGreg wrote: ↑Alan, how long did it take you to rebuild the shelter?

It's a work in progress.

RichardK · Post by **RichardK** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:17 am

cougarmagic wrote: ↑Someone also spray painted switchback numbers on the trees on Baden-Powell.

Ouch! Are all 40 something switchbacks defaced? This sounds like the same moron who spray painted Icehouse Canyon.

dh · Post by dh » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:49 pm

cougarmagic wrote: ↑Someone also spray painted switchback numbers on the trees on Baden-Powell.

didn't mind the markers. thought maybe the scouts did it during trail maint.

ALAWH · Post by **ALAWH** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:48 pm

I was wondering if I was crazy or if something had happened to the shelter. I was at the summit two weeks ago, then again yesterday and it looked different. Sad that people feel the need to put the work in to get to the top of the mountain and then do something like that.

Thanks to those who are rebuilding.

Phil B · Post by **Phil B** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:35 pm

I noticed a few months back that all the register/log boxes between San Bernadino Peak and Charlton Peak had the lids ripped off and the log-in books were torn up, I don't know whats up with some people, tearing down the wind shelters on Baldy is real antisocial behaviour, I wonder if they are the same type of people who start the fires.

Phil

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:57 pm

There seem to be several kinds of vandals at work. People who spray paint markers on rocks and trees are not in the same camp as people who destroy what they view as unnatural structures (e.g., rock rings on Baldy's summit). People who start forest fires are in another class altogether. I would prefer to be rid of all of them.

yobtaf · Post by **yobtaf** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:54 pm

I watched a video on youtube and some guy got to the top and was planning on using the shelter, but found it torn down. That would suck.

tracker · Post by **tracker** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:50 pm

AlanK wrote: ↑There seem to be several kinds of vandals at work. People who spray paint markers on rocks and trees are not in the same camp as people who destroy what they view as unnatural structures (e.g., rock rings on Baldy's summit). People who start forest fires are in another class altogether. I would prefer to be rid of all of them.

So - Everything would be OK if all people would look at things as you do?
I can guarantee this thread will ensure that someone will wait until the structure is rebuilt, then tear it down again.

mcphersonm80 · Post by **mcphersonm80** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:54 am

Call it what you will, but I'm not lamenting man-made structures being torn down at 10,000 feet, and I've used it for shelter overnight on more than one occasion. ::shrug::

mcphersonm80 · Post by **mcphersonm80** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:55 am

Now spray painting switchbacks? Death Penalty!

(I'm serious)

AW~ · Post by **AW~** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:06 am

tracker wrote: ↑ So - Everything would be OK if all people would look at things as you do?
I can guarantee this thread will ensure that someone will wait until the structure is rebuilt, then tear it down again.

If someone doesnt like something about the forest, there is a civilized way to go about it....starting with bringing up their grievance, instead of being a sneaky gutless coward and everyone in such a diverse large population just do their own thing and make their own way.

If anything, it appears this person was hopelessly outnumbered and decided what their minority of one wanted must rule the day....which means they are the same as the vandals and trashers of the forest.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:19 am

tracker wrote: ↑
AlanK wrote: ↑There seem to be several kinds of vandals at work. People who spray paint markers on rocks and trees are not in the same camp as people who destroy what they view as unnatural structures (e.g., rock rings on Baldy's summit). People who start forest fires are in another class altogether. I would prefer to be rid of all of them.
So - Everything would be OK if all people would look at things as you do?
I can guarantee this thread will ensure that someone will wait until the structure is rebuilt, then tear it down again.

I made a comment about there being different groups doing different things and that I would prefer to be rid of all of them. I did not say that everything would be ok if people would look at things as I do. In fact, I didn't even argue that people should look at things the way that I do. I just expressed my opinion... rather calmly, I might add.

everyday · Post by **everyday** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:50 am

...why dont you guys who like the shelter just walk up and re-make it? ....energy far better spent imo....and if you arnt willing to spend the positive energy and time fixing it...you sorta look like you just like complaining....Shit happens..this isnt a perfect world, there will always be people who do stuff you dont like and destroy things you use ....fix it or dont....but dont act suprised, like you never knew there were vandals in the world...especially the L.A. area of the world!

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:10 pm

everyday wrote: ↑...why dont you guys who like the shelter just walk up and re-make it? ....energy far better spent imo....and if you arnt willing to spend the positive energy and time fixing it...you sorta look like you just like complaining....Shit happens..this isnt a perfect world, there will always be people who do stuff you dont like and destroy things you use ....fix it or dont....but dont act suprised, like you never knew there were vandals in the world...especially the L.A. area of the world!

OK, don't use this Message Board for posting messages. Duly noted.

Post by **HikeUp** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:31 pm

Alan, I was wondering why you haven't been posting as much as in the past. Too busy tearing shit down. Then complaining about it.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:46 pm

HikeUp wrote: ↑Alan, I was wondering why you haven't been posting as much as in the past. Too busy tearing shit down. Then complaining about it.

I thought my plan was foolproof but I'm busted.

everyday · Post by **everyday** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:27 pm

AlanK wrote: ↑
everyday wrote: ↑...why dont you guys who like the shelter just walk up and re-make it? ....energy far better spent imo....and if you arnt willing to spend the positive energy and time fixing it...you sorta look like you just like complaining....Shit happens..this isnt a perfect world, there will always be people who do stuff you dont like and destroy things you use ....fix it or dont....but dont act suprised, like you never knew there were vandals in the world...especially the L.A. area of the world!
OK, don't use this Message Board for posting messages. Duly noted.

hmm...Touche sir, touche

AW~ · Post by **AW~** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:00 pm

Re: Baden-Powell

....made some inquiries and was told that an older, neatly dressed man had been seen painting the numbers on Sunday, October 14. Reportedly the man was asked to stop, but refused. Maybe at some point saner minds prevailed because the numbers stopped (I think) somewhere around 27. In any case the damage had already been done.

We did this run last Saturday{November 3}. The good news is most of the numbers have already been removed. (Thanks David!) Last I heard only two difficult to remove numbers remained, and I'm guessing those will disappear soon....

http://www.photographyontherun.com/High ... hePCT.aspx

longcut · Post by **longcut** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:13 am

Is it possible they didnt know they were vandalising something? Are those windshelters official structures of some kind or are they just improvised shelters made by hikers? if they are built by hikers looking for a break from the wind, then is this really vandalism?

Of course, if they truly were trying to restore the natural look of the place then they would spread the rocks out across the area instead of just knocking it down and leaving it.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:15 pm

longcut wrote: ↑Is it possible they didnt know they were vandalising something? Are those windshelters official structures of some kind or are they just improvised shelters made by hikers? if they are built by hikers looking for a break from the wind, then is this really vandalism?

Of course, if they truly were trying to restore the natural look of the place then they would spread the rocks out across the area instead of just knocking it down and leaving it.

As far as I know, the shelters are unofficial. However, they are well built and have been there for years.

I called it "vandalism" but that was not meant to imply a punishable crime. I had in mind the dictionary definition ("deliberately mischievous or malicious destruction or damage of property") in applying the term.

longcut · Post by **longcut** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:51 pm

Personally, I would never tear down something that so many people seem to enjoy. But I do wish they were never built in the first place. I know i was disappointed to see those things up there my first time up. I also dont like damming creeks for swimming, placing rocks and logs for stream crossings, overly manicured trails that were once very natural, trail "ducks", etc. Just leave the natural footpath, for me anyway.

I volunteered with a trail crew once. We took a steep section of natural looking, but slippery trail and turned it into rock steps. I havent volunteered since. I sometimes wonder if agencies will someday reevaluate, stop "improving" trails, and start "restoring" them. I think that would be cool.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:20 pm

longcut wrote: ↑Personally, I would never tear down something that so many people seem to enjoy. But I do wish they were never built in the first place. I know i was disappointed to see those things up there my first time up. I also dont like damming creeks for swimming, placing rocks and logs for stream crossings, overly manicured trails that were once very natural, trail "ducks", etc. Just leave the natural footpath, for me anyway.

I volunteered with a trail crew once. We took a steep section of natural looking, but slippery trail and turned it into rock steps. I havent volunteered since. I sometimes wonder if agencies will someday reevaluate, stop "improving" trails, and start "restoring" them. I think that would be cool.

FWIW, I agree with you. I come down on the side of leaving them alone because they are a part of the Baldy experience that is a lot less obnoxious than all of the unnecessary use trials coming up from the Backbone. Also, they looked better than what I saw on on November 2. It looked like a manmade shelter had been hit by a manmade bomb, dropped by a fake back to nature activist.

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:41 pm

The first time I was up on Baldy was probably in 89 or 90 - can't remember. I do not recall seeing any rock wind shelters. They may have been there but I don't remember them.

Regardless, I kind of wish everyone would actually do nothing while out for a walk in the mountains, except walk of course. If you need to clear a spot and build a wind break for a camp site or survival - great, do it. But I really wish you'd put it back the way it was as best as possible. Why do people feel the need to do shit? That rock was perfectly fine right where it was...it didn't need to be moved, spray painted or adorned with a flag.

Just go for a walk. And if there is a trail (or use trail), then stay on it. If you go cross-country then only create a trail if it serves a purpose (i.e. a nice single well-routed trail up a mountain or through a valley is much nicer than a million use trails through the same area). If you go through an area that few will ever go...then LNT.

Post by **Taco** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:45 am

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