Hiker shot by hunter

RichardK · Post by **RichardK** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:27 pm

SUBLIMITY, Ore. (AP) — A California member of the U.S. Marine Corps Reserves was shot and killed in Oregon after authorities say a hunter mistook him for a bear.

Christopher Ochoa, a 20-year-old from French Camp, Calif., and a friend were hiking through a field in Western Oregon on the way to Silver Creek Falls Park on Friday evening.

Ochoa was wearing dark-colored clothing when an Oregon man hunting for bear with his 12-year-old grandson saw something moving in the brush and fired one shot from a .270-caliber rifle, striking Ochoa, the Marion County Sheriff's Office said.

The sheriff's office said the hunter, Gene Collier, 67, hasn't been charged and said the shooting appeared to be accidental but turned the case over to the local district attorney's office.

Collier cooperated with detectives, according to a press release from the sheriff's office, and there was no indication that he was impaired by drugs or alcohol.

Ochoa's family in California told police he and Raymond Westrom, 53, of Lathrop, Calif., were in Salem, Ore., to do work on a house. Ochoa was set to report back for duty on Oct. 25.

Westrom directed Marion County sheriff's deputies through the woods to Ochoa, who was still alive when deputies arrived. The deputies administered first aid, but Ochoa died at the scene.

Bear season in Western Oregon runs from Aug. 1 until Dec. 31. Hunters are permitted to take one black bear per season, with restrictions on cubs less than one year old or sows with cubs.

everyday · Post by **everyday** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:44 pm

This is exactly why I wear bright Fuschia and neon pink, or neon green and yellow tops in autumn out here in the woods. Only bow hunting is allowed here, but still, I dont wanna be shot with an arrow any more than a bullet. For the rest of the year, i wear greys n black, but not hunting season!

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:55 pm

The hunter should be charged for failing to identify his target clearly. Not homicide but some type of lesser manslaughter charge.

HJ

lilbitmo · Post by **lilbitmo** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:37 pm

Hikin_Jim wrote: ↑The hunter should be charged for failing to identify his target clearly. Not homicide but some type of lesser manslaughter charge.

HJ

Couldn't agree more - it amazes me that they have the ability to see through their scopes for 500 yards but cannot tell the difference between human movements and animal movements - clearly a case of shoot first look later, sad, makes me nervous during hunting season

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:28 am

it validates my old saw ... "the only animals I'm afraid of are the two-legged ones"

Unfortunately the powers that be don't make others aware that hunting season is on, when precautions can be taken

VermillionPearlGirl · Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:46 am

Does anyone know what the official hunting season is in the San Gabriels?

I've seen and heard so many guns lately it's started to make me somewhat nervous.

I went to Sunset Peak on Saturday and every couple hundred feet along Glendora Mountain Road was a man in camo with a gun. I don't particularly mind hunters or anything, but the amount of them started to become somewhat disconcerting.

lilbitmo · Post by **lilbitmo** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:25 pm

VermillionPearlGirl wrote: ↑Does anyone know what the official hunting season is in the San Gabriels?

I've seen and heard so many guns lately it's started to make me somewhat nervous.

I went to Sunset Peak on Saturday and every couple hundred feet along Glendora Mountain Road was a man in camo with a gun. I don't particularly mind hunters or anything, but the amount of them started to become somewhat disconcerting.

It would be nice to know exactly where "Gun Hunting" versus "Bow Hunting" is allowed and what the full extent of the season is.

I've been on the Ontario/Bighorn trail in the fall and seen one individual with two horses and 8 weapons before, I've been on the PCT in the area below San Jacinto (outside the state park boundry) and have heard and seen multiple hunters there in the fall, but it would be nice to know when wearing bright pink or yellow is needed

wouldn't want to be mistaken for a "Pink Bear"

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:30 pm

My take on hunting season...
https://eispiraten.com/viewtopic.php?t=4161

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:34 pm

VermillionPearlGirl wrote: ↑Does anyone know what the official hunting season is in the San Gabriels?

I've seen and heard so many guns lately it's started to make me somewhat nervous.

I went to Sunset Peak on Saturday and every couple hundred feet along Glendora Mountain Road was a man in camo with a gun. I don't particularly mind hunters or anything, but the amount of them started to become somewhat disconcerting.

Yeah, I ran into two guys in camo with rifles on Bear Creek outside the San Gabriel Wilderness on Saturday morning. I had no idea it was hunting season.

I was wearing black and gray backpack and a maroon shirt. I might have worn something different (blaze orange or the like) if I had known it was hunting season.

HJ

lilbitmo · Post by **lilbitmo** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:03 pm

HikeUp wrote: ↑My take on hunting season...
https://eispiraten.com/viewtopic.php?t=4161

HikeUp - from Sept post

Heads up to our furry friends...

I typically want to know who's out shooting things when I go hiking so I thought I'd put together my understanding of the deer and bear hunting season for the San Gabriels. The accuracy of this data is limited to my limited abilities to read hunting regulations. Please correct or add to this if you want.

San Gabriel Mountains are for the most part in Zone D-11, I think.

Deer
Deer Archery Hunt: 9/3 thru 9/25
Deer Area-Specific Archery Hunt A-31: 9/24 thru 12/31

Deer General Season: 10/8 thru 11/6
Deer Additional Hunt J-13: 11/19 thru 11/27

Bear
Bear Archery: 8/20 thru 9/11

Bear General Season: 10/8 thru 12/25 or 1700 kills statewide

Thanks for the information HikeUp, I'm sure I saw this last month when you posted it, I had just forgotten it was there. I had no idea that government powers to be feel that we can afford to kill 1,700 bears and it will be no big deal - If I was a bear I'd move to another state

and please tell me there's a good reason to shoot them for their meat? God knows they hide so well and move so fast that's it a great sport

like the bighorn sheep, you know they are taking over the urban areas too

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:11 pm

As of Oct. 17, 2011, 373 bears have been harvested. (Only 1503 were harvested last year

)

HJ, zone maps can be found here...
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/ ... sinfo.html

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:10 pm

HikeUp wrote: ↑As of Oct. 17, 2011, 373 bears have been harvested. (Only 1503 were harvested last year )

HJ, zone maps can be found here...
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/ ... sinfo.html

And we are D-11. I saw the other thread.

HJ

everyday · Post by **everyday** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:55 pm

Not to be a smartass or anything...aw screw it, im gonna be... how the hell do you all not know that late summer through Autumn is hunting season? It always has been as far as I ever knew, ive known this since i was a kid.
Im just a trailrunner from Redondo Beach n Palm Springs and i know when it is...you guys spend whole days n nights n weeks out in the mtns year after year, and yer really tellin me that you people who go hiking n camping out there all the freakin time dont know when the eff hunting season is?? ya know it's every year right? cause you all act like its some huge suprise, lol

thats all...Sorry, I just dont get how "outdoors" people wouldnt know this info, and then act all upset that the forestry people, or whoever didnt come to your home 'n tell you personally "hey man, wear orange, its hunting season"

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:19 pm

everyday wrote: ↑Not to be a smartass or anything...aw screw it, im gonna be... how the hell do you all not know that late summer through Autumn is hunting season? It always has been as far as I ever knew, ive known this since i was a kid.
Im just a trailrunner from Redondo Beach n Palm Springs and i know when it is...you guys spend whole days n nights n weeks out in the mtns year after year, and yer really tellin me that you people who go hiking n camping out there all the freakin time dont know when the eff hunting season is?? ya know it's every year right? cause you all act like its some huge suprise, lol

thats all...Sorry, I just dont get how "outdoors" people wouldnt know this info, and then act all upset that the forestry people, or whoever didnt come to your home 'n tell you personally "hey man, wear orange, its hunting season"

I'd better call DFG and give them my address.

Now, you'll have to excuse me. I've got some hunting to do.

HJ

curt · Post by **curt** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:12 am

My .02 worth-Hunting season(s) can be found on California Department of Fish and Game website, every year the DFG "estimates" bear population and adjusts time, qty etc of bear tags based on this (I believe at least 3 bears were killed by Monrovia police this year on major streets). Population of animals are kept in "check" this way-at no cost to tax payer (actually provides several BILLION dollars for animal recovery (California Elk as example). I hunt, I hike (and YES-I wear Hunter Orange during season)
Each year, nearly $200 million in hunters' federal excise taxes are distributed to State agencies to support wildlife management programs, the purchase of lands open to hunters, and hunter education and safety classes. Proceeds from the Federal Duck Stamp, a required purchase for migratory waterfowl hunters, have purchased more than five million acres of habitat for the refuge system (2005 statistics only);

everyday · Post by **everyday** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:15 pm

Cool, I never knew thats what that money went to. Good to know!

And LOL at Jim! thats funny.

rios · Post by **rios** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:11 pm

During hunting season, I slap a blaze orange rag on my pack for safety.

Sad situation.

RichardK · Post by **RichardK** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:06 am

The hunter has been charged. Here is an interesting bit of information about him. His name is Collier.

According to online court records, Collier has three prior convictions for violating wildlife regulations from as early as 1991.

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article ... 7CNews%7Cs

Teejate · Post by **Teejate** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:33 pm

Gotta' rant on this one so look away if you're a hunter or don't like to take part in people popping off.

OK...we all hike the San Gabriels. And how many times have you actually seen deer...particularly since the fire? Yeah...on occasion but it's not like hiking in the East or other parts of the country.

I understand culling...even though if there wasn't human encroachment it would be a non-issue...and I understand, but don't encourage, hunting for food. But in the San Gabriels is it really necessary to cull a herd? Are there THAT many deer that they'd face starvation otherwise?

I was camping in Lupine during the first week of bow hunting season. Thankfully, there were only a few other campers there and just one site had a few bow hunters. I see them wearing their camo gear, carrying their weapons, even a couple wearing face paint, and all I see are pathetic, insecure men.

Ironic thing was that at about 11 p.m. a herd of six or seven deer walked right through my campsite and didn't blink when they saw me. I'd never seen a herd out there before. Either they were really dumb, ballsy or knew I wasn't about to shoot a freaking arrow at their hearts. What they were for sure though; was beautiful.

When I read stories about hikers being killed my some nut job with a rifle I'm disgusted, angered and sorrowful. When it gets to the point where a person with some respect and appreciation of nature and it's elements has to take his or her life in their hands to avoid the senselessness of an animal killer just to enjoy a hike....well, there's just something wrong with that picture.

So hunters? F-you all. I don't like what you do...I don't like who you are. I see you as cowards.

That said, I'm going to enjoy the hell out of my hike tomorrow. And maybe I'll get lucky and see some deer.

Post by **Taco** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:06 am

OK, I'll bite. I grew up hunting, taught myself, got my license when I was 12 or so...

Teejate wrote: ↑Gotta' rant on this one so look away if you're a hunter or don't like to take part in people popping off.

Why have those you're calling out look away?

OK...we all hike the San Gabriels. And how many times have you actually seen deer...particularly since the fire? Yeah...on occasion but it's not like hiking in the East or other parts of the country.

Maybe it's because I spend A LOT of time in the SG's since they're my home, but I see deer all the time, nearly every single day I'm up there, even if I'm just driving.

I understand culling...even though if there wasn't human encroachment it would be a non-issue...and I understand, but don't encourage, hunting for food. But in the San Gabriels is it really necessary to cull a herd? Are there THAT many deer that they'd face starvation otherwise?

Look at the # of tags issued. This should give you an idea. If the issuing authority issues too many (resulting in too many deer shot), then your beef is with the ones giving out tags, not with the hunters.

I was camping in Lupine during the first week of bow hunting season. Thankfully, there were only a few other campers there and just one site had a few bow hunters. I see them wearing their camo gear, carrying their weapons, even a couple wearing face paint, and all I see are pathetic, insecure men.

1. It's not a weapon unless it's designed to be used against a human.
2. I don't see how they are pathetic. Why do you feel they are insecure? Do you not feel that perhaps they feel the same about you?

Ironic thing was that at about 11 p.m. a herd of six or seven deer walked right through my campsite and didn't blink when they saw me. I'd never seen a herd out there before. Either they were really dumb, ballsy or knew I wasn't about to shoot a freaking arrow at their hearts. What they were for sure though; was beautiful.

Same thing happened last time I did Fish Fork with the gang. I couldn't sleep and was lying under my hooch/lean-to around midnight when I heard movement on the road, so I walked over quietly and some deer walked slowly down the road through our campsite. I made a little noise to let them know I was there. I am a hunter and I think they are beautiful as well.

When I read stories about hikers being killed my some nut job with a rifle I'm disgusted, angered and sorrowful. When it gets to the point where a person with some respect and appreciation of nature and it's elements has to take his or her life in their hands to avoid the senselessness of an animal killer just to enjoy a hike....well, there's just something wrong with that picture.

I don't really understand this. Moving on...

So hunters? F-you all. I don't like what you do...I don't like who you are. I see you as cowards.

Thank you for telling me to fuck myself. I hope you enjoy the site I made so you could tell me to fuck myself.

I'm not a coward and never have been, not once in my life. I have had my nose surgically reconstructed and a medical discharge from the US Army as a result.

That said, I'm going to enjoy the hell out of my hike tomorrow. And maybe I'll get lucky and see some deer.

Have a nice hike tomorrow. Enjoy the weather we are having. If you're very quiet, and perhaps walk carefully and quietly without disturbing the environment as a good hunter would, you could probably sneak up on some deer and watch them in their natural environment.

Teejate · Post by **Teejate** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:34 am

Well Taco...thanks for taking a relatively reasonable tone in your response.

Unfortunately, the one point that was most important, that referring to hikers risking their lives around hunters, was the one you didn't understand. That's kind of a drag.

So you know, I grew up in the woods in the East. A family full of hunters and to take it a step farther...some of them were trappers. I'm sure you've seen the wonderful site of a chewed off leg in a trap...or an animal bleeding out in pain. Yeah...that's a site that sticks with you.

Sorry man. While I appreciate you putting this site together, I truly do, my mind won't change about hunters or hunting. I find stalking and killing creatures, except in the extraordinarily rare cases of self-defense or for food in an extreme survival situation, to be an act of cowardice and the ultimate in human arrogance.

It's legal...so do your thing. As they say, there's lots of paths up the mountain. But don't expect me to respect it. Because I don't...and won't.

Thanks for the good hike wishes. Much appreciated. Should be a beauty.

Post by **Taco** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:22 am

Teejate wrote: ↑Well Taco...thanks for taking a relatively reasonable tone in your response.

Unfortunately, the one point that was most important, that referring to hikers risking their lives around hunters, was the one you didn't understand. That's kind of a drag.

I couldn't figure out what you meant by how you worded it.

So you know, I grew up in the woods in the East. A family full of hunters and to take it a step farther...some of them were trappers. I'm sure you've seen the wonderful site of a chewed off leg in a trap...or an animal bleeding out in pain. Yeah...that's a site that sticks with you.

I've seen and fixed worse.

Sorry man. While I appreciate you putting this site together, I truly do, my mind won't change about hunters or hunting. I find stalking and killing creatures, except in the extraordinarily rare cases of self-defense or for food in an extreme survival situation, to be an act of cowardice and the ultimate in human arrogance.

No need to be sorry, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you on this. I see nothing cowardly or arrogant about it. Different folks.

It's legal...so do your thing. As they say, there's lots of paths up the mountain. But don't expect me to respect it. Because I don't...and won't.

I don't require your respect.

bluerail · Post by **bluerail** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:21 am

I have this urge to go kill something...all the time. but i try to control it.

everyday · Post by **everyday** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:16 am

bluerail wrote: ↑I have this urge to go kill something...all the time. but i try to control it.

Hahahahaha! thats awesome

I feel like killing too sometimes, usually when trapped behind slow/bad drivers. They dont issue hunting licenses for them though

RichardK · Post by **RichardK** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:44 pm

Teejate - I understand where you are coming from. I also understand where Taco is coming from. For the record, I'm not into hunting and don't own a gun. I have a couple of questions for you.

Do you eat meat? Do you wear leather shoes or a leather belt? If so, then you are not different from the hunters that you condemn. You are just paying a hit man to do the hunting for you.

If you follow a strict vegan diet - no meat, fish, dairy, or eggs - and wear shoes and belts of cloth or synthetic material, then congratulations. Your position is morally complete.

SkinnyFat · Post by **SkinnyFat** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:01 pm

RichardK wrote: ↑Teejate - I understand where you are coming from. I also understand where Taco is coming from. For the record, I'm not into hunting and don't own a gun. I have a couple of questions for you.

Do you eat meat? Do you wear leather shoes or a leather belt? If so, then you are not different from the hunters that you condemn. You are just paying a hit man to do the hunting for you.

If you follow a strict vegan diet - no meat, fish, dairy, or eggs - and wear shoes and belts of cloth or synthetic material, then congratulations. Your position is morally complete.

Nice job. If anything, this forum has taught me that I really should've taken a debate class when I was in high school.

Post by **Taco** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:22 pm

The debate clinic will be held after the Winter Mountaineering clinic. BYOB.

secondlizard · Post by **secondlizard** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:10 pm

This is a tragic event and the hunter should have some kind of punishment. One of the rules of hunter safety is always be sure of your target. He broke one of the rules of his getting his license.

It seems that Teejate has turned this into a vendetta against hunters because of some kind of childhood trauma.

You have to realize that there are less than 100 deaths per year because of hunting accidents.
People who break the rules of getting their license to drive cause over 35,000 deaths a year.
Bottom line you are safer with hunters than the drive to and from your hiking spot.

As far as Teejate is concerned: As a active hunter I don't care if you like what I do, and I don't care if you like who I am, and I don't care if you see me as a coward. I refuse to let your stupidity and childhood trauma effect what I do in life. I find it interesting that you want to go out on a hike and see some deer. If you do you can thank the hunting community.

Hunters do more than anyone to make sure that animals are managed in a biologically sound manner. We are the ones who pay for the state fish and game departments to run the biological studies to keep the deer herds healthy. Which means we give you the best chance to see those deer and other animals in the outdoors.

I will give you 2 other examples of hunters private contributions.

First the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation spends millions of dollars every year to protect and enhance the outdoors. So far they have protected and enhanced over 6 million acres of land. They have opened and secured for public access for hunting and other outdoor recreation 632,000 acres. This has not only helped elk but all wildlife that is using that ecosystem.

Ducks Unlimited has conserved more than 12 million acres of waterfowl habitat in the United States, Canada and Mexico through land acquisition and easements. Improving waterfowl habitat also helps 100's of other species.

Both of these organizations are primarily funded by hunters and corporate sponsors

So Teejate next time you say F-you to a group of people you should educate yourself on the people you are attacking. Or at least not display your stupidity and childhood trauma in public. I don't care about getting your respect it is meaningless to me. You don't have to worry, me and the rest of the hunting community will keep spending our time and money on improving the ecosystems so that you can enjoy it.

Madrox · Post by **Madrox** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:54 pm

Taco wrote: ↑The debate clinic will be held after the Winter Mountaineering clinic. BYOB.

666-The Beast · Post by **666-The Beast** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:51 am

I grew up in the country side where part of our youthful entertainment was any wild and some domestic animals were a fair game to be put to death for no apparent reason. We were rather limited in our ability to exterminate all wild living animals by our weapons of choice: the hand-arm rock launcher and the slingshot.
Eventually, I moved to the city and the shotguns became the new-now as a hunting sport- exterminating weapon of for the defend less wild life .
When the final move to the western metro city, my eyes were opened to other more satisfying and civil ways of being entertained. Visiting the forrest now, without a weapon of destruction revealed a new perspective and the ability to see and appreciate nature in a way that is more rewarding and uplifting to the psyche. Gone is the obsession,the thrill of the chase and the termination of a living life!

Enlightenment can strike at any time in ones life. It took a bit later for me, a bit early for Teejate, for Taco it might need to take a bit more time.

For the the hardcore "seconlizards of the world" nra barbarians, it will probably never happen and they will live a deplorable life of deception, in that they helped to manage nature by selective destruction!

Gentlemen, let nature regulate its self, it has done rather well all these millions of years without any input of weapons....

A few wise words that are still relevant for us to ponder:
ISAIAH 2:4 ...they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift sword against nation, neither shall they LEARN WAR ANYMORE....
CHRIST: BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS......666