Returning gear to REI: do you feel guilty?

Burchey · Post by **Burchey** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:04 am

For those of you that shop at REI...do you ever feel bad taking back used gear that just didn't work out? Here's my situation at the moment:

Crampons - bought a pair there and I've only worn them on 3 trips. The second trip out both of the antibot plates in the rear disappeared (poor design), and my boots have a hard time staying seated in the rear.

Backpack - I have an Osprey Atmos 50 which I like, but has some issues. It hurts my neck/shoulders a little because the straps are too close together, and it's the original version with the super-arched mesh backpanel. I was going to put up with both of those things, but now the seam is coming apart on the side. I haven't owned it for 2 years even, and this is not even my primary pack. My Aether 75 which I used to mostly carry is in awesome shape, and it's much older/had much more use. A pack should last a long time, and this pack probably only has 40 miles on it.

Am I dumb to feel bad about returning this stuff? I think I feel guilty because I run across these hippies at the crag who brag about buying a tent, sleeping bag, other expensive gear, etc for a big trip, then returning it all when they get back.

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:39 am

Burchey wrote: ↑For those of you that shop at REI...do you ever feel bad taking back used gear that just didn't work out? Here's my situation at the moment:.....

Am I dumb to feel bad about returning this stuff? I think I feel guilty because I run across these hippies at the crag who brag about buying a tent, sleeping bag, other expensive gear, etc for a big trip, then returning it all when they get back.

I've had some qualms but returned it anyway.

One pair of boots I used 6-12 times until they started falling apart

One pair of hiking poles I didn't like after I used them once

A climbing rope (un-used still in the package) I bought in error

I'm sure there are others just don't remember...

If I have a legitimate reason I don't feel bad, especially since I likely paid full retail, if some a-hole abuses the return policy I can't and don't let it affect my decision for a legit return

Matt

Burchey · Post by **Burchey** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:35 am

Gotcha Matt, in my mind these are legit returns, the back just seems a little off because I've owned it for so long (even though I haven't used it mucn).

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:09 pm

As a small manufacturer, I would never return anything that wasn't in some way defective.

Don't think this service of REI's is somehow "free."

Biggest purchase I made there that was clearly unsuitable was a big Gregory pack that must have cost a few hundred smackers. Nothing wrong with the pack, I just decide I didn't like it after using it twice.

I ended up buying an Osprey and giving the Gregory to Ingrid's son.

Burchey · Post by **Burchey** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:28 pm

simonov wrote: ↑As a small manufacturer, I would never return anything that wasn't in some way defective.

quote]

Good point. What's your take on the antibot plates falling off for no reason. Defective or no? What about the main side seam coming apart on the pack after light use? Defective or no?

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:06 pm

Burchey wrote: ↑Good point. What's your take on the antibot plates falling off for no reason. Defective or no? What about the main side seam coming apart on the pack after light use? Defective or no?

The anti-bot plates falling off is a manufacturer's defect, not REI's. It all depends on REI's relationship with the manufacturer. If REI can return defective products for credit, then that's fine. But if REI simply tosses it into the pile along with items returned because the customers didn't like the color or whatever, it's just adding cost to REI (and hence to everything purchased from REI).

For example (from real life), if I had a problem with a digital camera I bought through Best Buy, I wouldn't take it back to Best Buy to be repaired, I would contact the North American sales office for the manufacturer. They may or may not refer me back to Best Buy, depending on their policies, but at least I know I am dealing with the people who are responsible for the problem.

Of course, actual returns have to be dealt with by the retailer who sold the product, we deal with that all the time. But usually an honest customer who ended up with a defective product wants a repair or replacement, and that can and should be handled by the manufacturer.

As the for pack you used for over a year, I can't see returning that.

Remember, none of this is free.

TracieB · Post by **TracieB** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:19 pm

Burchey wrote: ↑For those of you that shop at REI...do you ever feel bad taking back used gear that just didn't work out? Backpack - I have an Osprey Atmos 50 which I like, but has some issues. It hurts my neck/shoulders a little because the straps are too close together,

'
Burchey I have that same pack and the same issue with it. I've only used it a few times and considering the number of packs I've got now, the amount of money I spend at REI, and the fact that they're involved in [trying to] close down ORV trails, I don't feel bad at all about taking it back!!! It's going back for sure.

Burchey · Post by **Burchey** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:53 pm

simonov wrote: ↑ The anti-bot plates falling off is a manufacturer's defect, not REI's. It all depends on REI's relationship with the manufacturer. If REI can return defective products for credit, then that's fine. But if REI simply tosses it into the pile along with items returned because the customers didn't like the color or whatever, it's just adding cost to REI (and hence to everything purchased from REI).

I agree it's a manufacturers defect. The beauty of the REI system, similar to the Nordstroms system, is you pay a little more than you might at an online retailer, but you get good service and a great return policy. They can deal with the manufacturer for me, or can sell them at the used gear sale which might allow another person with less dough to get into an expensive sport. I would imagine a lot of the prices these things go for at the used gear sale is around a break-even for them given the crazy retail markup on new goods. They have financial guys that structure pricing models considering the money they "lose" on the return policy.

simonov wrote: ↑ For example (from real life), if I had a problem with a digital camera I bought through Best Buy, I wouldn't take it back to Best Buy to be repaired, I would contact the North American sales office for the manufacturer. They may or may not refer me back to Best Buy, depending on their policies, but at least I know I am dealing with the people who are responsible for the problem.

Of course, actual returns have to be dealt with by the retailer who sold the product, we deal with that all the time. But usually an honest customer who ended up with a defective product wants a repair or replacement, and that can and should be handled by the manufacturer.

As the for pack you used for over a year, I can't see returning that.

Remember, none of this is free.

My experience with Best Buy is you return it to them, especially if you've purchased the extended coverage plan. They handle the issue for you. The slightly higher prices you pay at REI are in a way an extended coverage plan, which they not only advertise but push - I'm told I can bring things back anytime about 4-5 times when I go in there. It's part of their gimmick. Of course none of this is free: I paid for it in the thousands of dollars I've spent there otherwise. On the pack - I appreciate your opinion, and the only reason I'm considering it is because how little I've used it and the main seam on the side failed.

TracieB wrote: ↑Burchey I have that same pack and the same issue with it. I've only used it a few times and considering the number of packs I've got now, the amount of money I spend at REI, and the fact that they're involved in [trying to] close down ORV trails, I don't feel bad at all about taking it back!!! It's going back for sure.

Heard. I try not to take things back for slight discomfort ( most likely my fault for not sizing it correctly ), but the construction of the bag seems faulty. They are trying to close down ORV trails? That's great, no more jeeping for me.

TracieB · Post by **TracieB** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:38 pm

Hey Burchey where was that photo taken?

Burchey · Post by **Burchey** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:44 pm

TracieB wrote: ↑Hey Burchey where was that photo taken?

Ski Hut Trail.

Actually, the Rubicon a couple years back.

MattCav · Post by **MattCav** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:31 pm

Hey Burchey-
I work for REI and we completely stand by our 100% satisfaction policy. We usually try to limit our return rates by personally outfitting people as best we can. If you want any specific gear rec's lemme know by coming on in or shooting me a message anytime.
Re: the Atmos pack - it can be a very good pack if it fits you well. I've noticed that narrow people do MUCH better in these packs because the mesh U-shape shoulder strap concoction is somewhat rigid in shape and does not expand laterally too easily. In other words, if you're not a narrow person, the neck strap will most likely rub or chaff your neck and it may be harder to set up the load lifters so they drop your pack's weight effectively to your hips and lower torso. Also, overloading the Atmos (25+ lbs in my op) can also lead to more stress on your back and shoulders. I've found Gregory packs to be a better fit for me, because I'm broad and they feature S-shaped shoulder straps usually, which go around the neck area. The load lifters on em also seem to be a bit easier to dial in. Your Aether also has these same Gregory-esq features. The Gregory Z series is one I love, as it is a little bit heavier than the Atmos but has a better fitting frame for more people in my experience. They come in 30, 35, 50, and 65 liter versions (I have the 35 and 65).
Re: the crampons - Bring em back. That sucks they didn't hold up. If you want, you can pursue the problem with the manufacturer, but if you don't want to deal with that, just bring em back. We stand by everything in our store, especially for our members, and I always want every customer in our store to be totally happy with what they pay for. You're paying top dollar and you should have stuff that makes you very satisfied.
Let me know if I can ever help you with this stuff. I work at the Arcadia store.

peace.

Burchey · Post by **Burchey** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:50 pm

Thanks for all the insight, Matt. The pack wasn't that uncomfortable that I would return it, honestly. I own 4 Osprey packs, and for the most part am VERY satisified with the fit, performance, and durability of them. The fact that this one is coming undone on the side is pushing me to swap it out, and I don't think it's typical of their products. If I had beat this thing to death, I'd blame myself. Because I've barely used it, I blame a random poorly constructed Atmos.

MattCav · Post by **MattCav** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:53 pm

I hear ya Burchey. Bring it on back or give Osprey a call - just get your money's worth

I'm glad your other Osprey packs have held up so well.

peace.

hvydrt · Post by **hvydrt** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:22 pm

I wont take stuff back that I have used and abused, but if it just a lousy product, I take it back. (not years later, with in a month of buying it) They are the ones that promote the idea of "you can return anything." That's one of the ways they get you to buy a $15 membership.

If something goes wrong, I always give the manufacture a call first. Black Diamond and Snow Peak have sent me replacement parts for free, no questions asked.

atomicoyote · Post by **atomicoyote** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:28 pm

I'll take things back if they fail prematurely or don't work as advertised. I returned a 25F REI-brand sleeping bag after one trip - the thing wouldn't keep me warm at alomst 50F. Exchanged it (and some cash) for the next model.

FWIW: The new 'Euro' rating system they use on bags is confusing. Make sure you look at the tags and spec a bag by the LOWEST of its three ratings (at least for me). The usual temp rating they advertise is the highest one, made for folks who can stand sleeping a little cooler than most.

jbowman18 · Post by **jbowman18** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:37 pm

mattmaxon wrote: ↑ A climbing rope (un-used still in the package) I bought in error
Matt

While I realize this was in error, I was told by an REI employee that they would have to destroy that rope regardless of it's in the packaging or not. They can't re-stock any of their climbing gear once it leaves the store. Unfortunate they can't sell it cheap with a waiver....

More on topic though, I just had this scenario last week. I have been feeling torn about it as well. I just returned a HUGE rolling piece of luggage (Eagle Creek) I used for work once. It was way too big and way more than I needed. I bought a TravelPro right after and love it. The eagle creek sat in my closet for about 7 months and I had forgot that I had to return it yet (I had just moved and life was hectic). There wasn't anything technically defective with it, it just didn't fit my needs in a bag. On the flip side though, I did spend the $300 plus an additional $50 that same day. I bet that makes up for what they'll get when they sell it at the next garage sale.

I returned a defective Kelty bag a few years back. The next week I went to their garage sale and they were selling it for nearly the price I had paid for it while on sale.

Burchey · Post by **Burchey** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:06 pm

Jbowman, I think you are right about the climbing ropes. I'm not sure about other hardware (if it even came in a package, like webbing or multipaks of quickdraws, etc).

FYI, I returned both the crampons and the pack, and they didn't even really seem to care much about the explanation.

I've got another pack on order, and crampons as well. Looks like they won't be getting here until AFTER I want to dayhike-summit Baldy this weekend, so I'll most likely be choppin steps like a champion, depending on conditions. Good challenge.

davantalus · Post by **davantalus** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:54 pm

Burchey wrote: ↑Ski Hut Trail.

Hahahahaha!

I had a pair of dog boots disintegrate after two trips. Returned promptly, felt no guilt.

If something is an obvious defect or ends up not being designed to withstand the amount of use it will receive I don't see any reason not to return it.

MattCav · Post by **MattCav** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:01 pm

jbowman, that's true - we are unable to resell any climbing gear that has been used... ropes, biners, atc's, harnesses, etc. the only exception that i can think of offhand is climbing shoes. it's just too much of a liability. but dont sweat it. if something doesnt work, bring it back. rei not only stands by our products but also accurately outfitting our customers with the right match of gear that they may need. if it doesnt work out, it doesn't work out. that's one reason i love working for this company

jbowman18 · Post by **jbowman18** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:17 pm

MattCav wrote: ↑jbowman, that's true - we are unable to resell any climbing gear that has been used... ropes, biners, atc's, harnesses, etc. the only exception that i can think of offhand is climbing shoes. it's just too much of a liability. but dont sweat it. if something doesnt work, bring it back. rei not only stands by our products but also accurately outfitting our customers with the right match of gear that they may need. if it doesnt work out, it doesn't work out. that's one reason i love working for this company

I'm not sweatin' it, just sucks to see it all that good gear go to waste!

Tell the truth, who get's dibs on returned, but unopened climbing gear? Tell me it doesn't get cut up and thrown out.

MattCav · Post by **MattCav** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:21 pm

honestly, i'm not sure. we have a person who works with damaged merch or returns that can't go back to the floor and i'm not sure what he does with stuff that doesn't go to the used gear sales. however i can promise you that employees definitely do not take it home

Johnny Bronson · Post by **Johnny Bronson** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

MattCav wrote: ↑honestly, i'm not sure. we have a person who works with damaged merch or returns that can't go back to the floor and i'm not sure what he does with stuff that doesn't go to the used gear sales. however i can promise you that employees definitely do not take it home

For the most part it totally sucks!
From my personal friends who work at various stores,they destroy the items and recycle what they can.Ask your district manager about the "green" process.Some stores have some decent kool managers who let "legit climbers" buy that stuff on the side AS IS(hard goods usually)All soft goods are usually cut in half from the getgo.

I know a couple people who have came up on some amazing deals(biners/stoppers and pins).Its just about knowing the right people at the right place.Each rei tends to be ran a bit differently though.So it all depends.

PackerGreg · Post by **PackerGreg** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:38 pm

Why would I shop with a business that is paying the mob protection money and has to pass the expense along to me, when I can go across town to patronize someone with less overhead and get the same merchandise?