Photo Climb/Trek up to Mt Baldy - Feb 04 2010
mve,
i'm catching up on my lurking. just read your TR and saw your truly amazing photos.
thanks for lugging that outer-utero baby up there for us to enjoy! i'm gonna' go back and look at the photos again! i can't imagine how terrifying the unstable snow felt. glad you kept a cool head and walked out of it.
i would like to join in on the proposed adventure. i could be the unofficial cheerleader, provide first aid if necessary and record setting the pro and lowering you with the new camera i plan to buy today.
let me know.
i'm catching up on my lurking. just read your TR and saw your truly amazing photos.
thanks for lugging that outer-utero baby up there for us to enjoy! i'm gonna' go back and look at the photos again! i can't imagine how terrifying the unstable snow felt. glad you kept a cool head and walked out of it. i would like to join in on the proposed adventure. i could be the unofficial cheerleader, provide first aid if necessary and record setting the pro and lowering you with the new camera i plan to buy today.
let me know.
knock on wood
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bertfivesix
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:29 pm
I've got 2 pickets...I figure we can also do deadmans with ice axes, bollards, whatever is most solid based on what's up there. We'll need a lot of webbing/cordmve wrote:Gear which was already identified:
- 60m dry rope (Zach, bertfivesix)
- 4 pickets (bertfivesix?)
- 2 x 10cm ice screws (TDB)
- slings/runners/biners (TDB)
- crevasse rescue pulley (TDB)
Maybe after the next storms pass we can get together for a rehearsal/test run and hopefully have some fun in the chutes?
I was doing some thinking and homework ... and here's what I learned so far (correct me if I am wrong, this project is not as simple as I thought):
We shouldn't lower down on a pulley because the person rappelling off needs to have full control of the descent speed when going over rocks and other steep and dangerous obstacles. The rappel needs to be done on a friction device backed by a prussic both mounted on the harness.
As a backup we should have a secondary belay rope which can already be setup with a rescue pulley system in case of emergency.
Going back up will have to be done using Handled Ascender device for the same reason we need friction device going down ...
It looks like it's a fairly complicated setup that needs to be practiced until it's fully drilled and automatic and I don't feel it's right for us to attempt it for the first time in the Bowl because the consequences of making a mistake there are severe.
I would love to get together however, without any bulky photo gear at first, and learn this someplace safe as it seems to be a good thing to know:
http://www.traditionalmountaineering.or ... ing_sm.htm
We shouldn't lower down on a pulley because the person rappelling off needs to have full control of the descent speed when going over rocks and other steep and dangerous obstacles. The rappel needs to be done on a friction device backed by a prussic both mounted on the harness.
As a backup we should have a secondary belay rope which can already be setup with a rescue pulley system in case of emergency.
Going back up will have to be done using Handled Ascender device for the same reason we need friction device going down ...
It looks like it's a fairly complicated setup that needs to be practiced until it's fully drilled and automatic and I don't feel it's right for us to attempt it for the first time in the Bowl because the consequences of making a mistake there are severe.
I would love to get together however, without any bulky photo gear at first, and learn this someplace safe as it seems to be a good thing to know:
http://www.traditionalmountaineering.or ... ing_sm.htm
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EManBevHills
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:40 am
Might make sense to add a couple of walkie talkies to the equipment list...
BTW, if you plan on shooting from a head down position, you sure don't want to be hauled back up that way!
Maybe it's possible to set up a Tyrollean traverse between a couple of the gendarmes and get the shot you want? Where is Wallenda or Philippe Petit when you need them?
BTW, if you plan on shooting from a head down position, you sure don't want to be hauled back up that way!
Maybe it's possible to set up a Tyrollean traverse between a couple of the gendarmes and get the shot you want? Where is Wallenda or Philippe Petit when you need them?
Good point -- once you go over the lip they can't see/hear you.EManBevHills wrote:Might make sense to add a couple of walkie talkies to the equipment list...
EManBevHills wrote:BTW, if you plan on shooting from a head down position, you sure don't want to be hauled back up that way!
I don't think I want to be hauled back up period -- I'd want to climb out of it on my own -- there's a lot of rock to get snagged on if being pulled.-
bertfivesix
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:29 pm
I was thinking more along the lines of lowering you from the anchor using a belay device like an ATC Guide or Reverso3 in guide/2nd mode, using radio contact to control rate of descent. Getting back up might not even be an issue - if it's mission accomplished, we can just lower you down into the bowl where you traverse south and we all link up for the hike down.
But yeah, we should practice first.
But yeah, we should practice first.
This seems to be getting excessively complicated with raising and lowering systems and whatnot.
It seems pretty straightforward to just come up from the bottom like Taco said. I think the location you want is well below the crux of those routes...
Alternatively if you don't want any tracks messing up the shot, drop down from the top, but just rappel down off whatever snow/rock/tree anchors you can find, no different than canyoneering really.
It seems pretty straightforward to just come up from the bottom like Taco said. I think the location you want is well below the crux of those routes...
Alternatively if you don't want any tracks messing up the shot, drop down from the top, but just rappel down off whatever snow/rock/tree anchors you can find, no different than canyoneering really.
Right, there's no need to climb/haul out. I can hump up another 70m rope and that should be enough to lower you off onto milder terrain.bertfivesix wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of lowering you from the anchor using a belay device like an ATC Guide or Reverso3 in guide/2nd mode, using radio contact to control rate of descent. Getting back up might not even be an issue - if it's mission accomplished, we can just lower you down into the bowl where you traverse south and we all link up for the hike down.
But yeah, we should practice first.
You might also want to consider a rig like this. We could all ski/board down betwixt yer legs.
Ideally the scenario would be such that I can lower, stop, secure position (both hands free), remove the camera, look through the lens for an opportunity, take the shoot, move lower to the next position, repeat the "secure/shoot" sequence and continue this until I run out of rope, then switch from rap setup into fixed line climbing setup and return back to the top where we move the anchor to the next position/chute and repeat the process.
This process obviously requires me to know the equipment and procedure the the extent beyond what one practice run can teach. It also poses a risk of ending up in a precariously steep terrain with limited options of retreat and no way to go down -- not a place to learn how to do these kinds of things, so I am going to put this project on hold for now and instead look for an opportunity to practice.
I really appreciate all the helpful advice everyone has given here and I am simply blown away by the willingness of everyone to help with this project -- I feel very lucky to have found and to be part of such a great group of true enthusiasts. Thank you!
This process obviously requires me to know the equipment and procedure the the extent beyond what one practice run can teach. It also poses a risk of ending up in a precariously steep terrain with limited options of retreat and no way to go down -- not a place to learn how to do these kinds of things, so I am going to put this project on hold for now and instead look for an opportunity to practice.
I really appreciate all the helpful advice everyone has given here and I am simply blown away by the willingness of everyone to help with this project -- I feel very lucky to have found and to be part of such a great group of true enthusiasts. Thank you!
Heck, let's all go climb the bowl on Saturday!mve wrote:...so I am going to put this project on hold for now and instead look for an opportunity to practice.
I really appreciate all the helpful advice everyone has given here and I am simply blown away by the willingness of everyone to help with this project -- I feel very lucky to have found and to be part of such a great group of true enthusiasts. Thank you!
Vitaliy-I agree completely. Your safety is paramount and the mountain will always be there.mve wrote:This process obviously requires me to know the equipment and procedure the the extent beyond what one practice run can teach. It also poses a risk of ending up in a precariously steep terrain with limited options of retreat and no way to go down -- not a place to learn how to do these kinds of things, so I am going to put this project on hold for now and instead look for an opportunity to practice.
The setup you want is actually quite simple, and it is used routinely on long, technical descents in climbing.
1) Make an anchor above the chute. Use either two equalized, deadman pickets or anchor to a tree.
2) Fix the single strand line onto the anchor (figure 8 on a bight attached to a locking carabiner works). Coil the end of the rope into a mountaineer's coil around your shoulder so that you can feed it as you rappel; that way you won't mess up the snow in the shot with the rope.
3) Rappel normally, except attach the carabiner on the ATC to a girth-hitched piece of cord or webbing on the belay loop--effectively, the ATC is now an arm's length above where it would usually be on rappel. Then attach a prusik or bachmann to the rope beneath the ATC and attach the friction knot to your belay loop with a locker. Now when you want to rappel, you slide the friction knot down, and when you want to stop, just let go and it will lock you off.
4) After you stop, you can continue descending if you wish by sliding the prusik again, or you can slightly unweight the prusik, remove the ATC, and start climbing up the rope as a fixed line while sliding the prusik as you go up. That way, you are self-belayed and if you fall you won't drop more than a few feet.
This setup is ideal for this situation because you can always unweight the prusik given the terrain in the chutes (you can always stand up), and if you're hit with a rock and knocked out (unlikely), your prusik will keep you in place even when you're on rappel.
If you want to practice this stuff, the big Caltech group I mentioned will be doing exactly these things on Saturday. Come meet us at the ski hut in the morning (we will be leaving quite early... 5 or 6 or so from the hut), and we would be more than happy to have you join our group.
1) Make an anchor above the chute. Use either two equalized, deadman pickets or anchor to a tree.
2) Fix the single strand line onto the anchor (figure 8 on a bight attached to a locking carabiner works). Coil the end of the rope into a mountaineer's coil around your shoulder so that you can feed it as you rappel; that way you won't mess up the snow in the shot with the rope.
3) Rappel normally, except attach the carabiner on the ATC to a girth-hitched piece of cord or webbing on the belay loop--effectively, the ATC is now an arm's length above where it would usually be on rappel. Then attach a prusik or bachmann to the rope beneath the ATC and attach the friction knot to your belay loop with a locker. Now when you want to rappel, you slide the friction knot down, and when you want to stop, just let go and it will lock you off.
4) After you stop, you can continue descending if you wish by sliding the prusik again, or you can slightly unweight the prusik, remove the ATC, and start climbing up the rope as a fixed line while sliding the prusik as you go up. That way, you are self-belayed and if you fall you won't drop more than a few feet.
This setup is ideal for this situation because you can always unweight the prusik given the terrain in the chutes (you can always stand up), and if you're hit with a rock and knocked out (unlikely), your prusik will keep you in place even when you're on rappel.
If you want to practice this stuff, the big Caltech group I mentioned will be doing exactly these things on Saturday. Come meet us at the ski hut in the morning (we will be leaving quite early... 5 or 6 or so from the hut), and we would be more than happy to have you join our group.