Hikers body recovered from Mt Wilson
It appears that this was an ODC hike:
The hike:
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/Pasttrip/Pa ... eek&area=1
The ongoing dicussion:
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/forum/displ ... Position=1
Very sad, we all must remember to stay safe!
The hike:
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/Pasttrip/Pa ... eek&area=1
The ongoing dicussion:
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/forum/displ ... Position=1
Very sad, we all must remember to stay safe!
Sad but illuminating discussion -- thanks for posting the link.Travis wrote:It appears that this was an ODC hike:
The hike:
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/Pasttrip/Pa ... eek&area=1
The ongoing dicussion:
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/forum/displ ... Position=1
Very sad, we all must remember to stay safe!
Does anyone know where the accident occurred? Mention is made in several articles about Chantry Flats but it also appears that it was near the Mt. Wilson road (from Red Box).
Based on the ODC description of the hike, it started at Chantry Flat, went to Sturtevant Camp then up to Mt. Wilson. The return route was to be on the Winter Creek trail back to Chantry. I assume the accident happened on the ascent route based on the "turning around" discussion the group had.
I did this exact hike last summer, and do not recall any specific area that had a 1000' chute, but my best guess would be it was between Sturtevant Camp and Mt. Wilson and probably relatively close to the top.
More links in a previous post by friendowl.
I did this exact hike last summer, and do not recall any specific area that had a 1000' chute, but my best guess would be it was between Sturtevant Camp and Mt. Wilson and probably relatively close to the top.
More links in a previous post by friendowl.
I like that loop too. I am also having trouble recalling any 1000' chutes, but I have never done that route in winter, when such things tend to stir up one's self-preservation instinct. Besides, it doesn't take a 1000' fall in an icy chute to kill a person. It must have been pretty high up on the ascent route.
Wow. I feel so bad for the leader. Travis and I have both led hikes for the Outdoors Club. As you can see from the ODC forum discussion on this tragedy, the controversy continues as to the extent of leader responsibility on ODC outings. As a Sierra Club leader, I know that the leader can insist that everyone stay behind him on Sierra Club hikes. If anyone wants to do something different, they must sign out so that they are no longer on a Sierra Club hike. Even in those instances, you still worry as a leader about them making it back to the trailhead. Of course, people are attracted to the ODC partly or entirely because it is not regulated like the Sierra Club. But the extent of leader responsibility is more clearly defined with the Sierra Club.
Don't know where the accident happened but the trip write-up page said the hike was from Chantry Flats to Sturtevant Camp to Mt. Wilson, returning from Mt. Wilson via the Winter Creek Trail.
Based on the reports of two participants on this hike who posted, the only thing the leader might have done differently is to insist that the young lady (32) who was killed go back with the group that was turning around. But maybe the young lady insisted on "sticking with the leader" when he went further up the trail to try to talk a lone participant who insisted on continuing into turning around with everyone else. I don't know. Very, very sad.
This young lady was a newbie hiker, but her type of accident can and has happened to the very experienced. Two or three years ago, a California Mountaineering Club leader fell to his death going up the Baldy Village Trail when he slipped on a patch of ice. His crampons were still strapped to his pack when they recovered his body.
O.K. It can't be said too often. Be careful out there!
Don't know where the accident happened but the trip write-up page said the hike was from Chantry Flats to Sturtevant Camp to Mt. Wilson, returning from Mt. Wilson via the Winter Creek Trail.
Based on the reports of two participants on this hike who posted, the only thing the leader might have done differently is to insist that the young lady (32) who was killed go back with the group that was turning around. But maybe the young lady insisted on "sticking with the leader" when he went further up the trail to try to talk a lone participant who insisted on continuing into turning around with everyone else. I don't know. Very, very sad.
This young lady was a newbie hiker, but her type of accident can and has happened to the very experienced. Two or three years ago, a California Mountaineering Club leader fell to his death going up the Baldy Village Trail when he slipped on a patch of ice. His crampons were still strapped to his pack when they recovered his body.
O.K. It can't be said too often. Be careful out there!
I have participated in a hike lead by Terry and found him to be a good leader. ODC is very clear that everyone should know their own limits. I feel bad for Terry, the lady that fell, and also the person that decided to go ahead. I don't think you can blame anyone involved, it was an accident. As Augie said, even the most experienced climber can have an accident.
As Augie said, in the past I had led hikes with ODC, usually with a disclaimer saying that "you are on your own, I am just a coordinator". But a leader is a leader and must accept some responsibility for the group. That is why I stopped leading. I did not want to take on any liability in any form. And with ODC you always get some people signing up that you just don't know if they are legitimate and experienced enough. I often rejected people that I did not feel where experienced enough and many times received an angry e-mail in response. Even though pretty much everyone is saying that this leader was safe and did what he could, this will forever weigh on his conscious, thinking "what should I have done differently?" Who knows, the family of the deceased may even consider suing the leader. Accidents like this make you understand why the Sierra Club has such a structured, formal leadership program.
Very sad,
Very sad,
Well said, Travis. If you post and lead a hike (other than a private hike of course), you can't abdicate leader responsibility even though the club guidelines are clear on telling the participant that she is responsible for her own safety. People will expect some level of leadership even though you only call yourself a "coordinator." Having said that, it certainly appears the leader in this case met his responsibilities. In fact, it sounds like he put himself at great risk in going down to the victim on the remote chance she may still have been alive.
What a sad situation for everyone, especially the surviving group leader. That poor guy "risked great personal injury" to climb all the way down and back up just to see if anything could be done for her.
I've also led some private group hikes with friends but like Travis, I've given up on that idea. Even among friends, but especially novice hiker friends, you feel responsible for them because you are the most experienced or the person who knows the route. It's stressful enough worrying about your own safety, much less 5 or 8 other people.
I've also led some private group hikes with friends but like Travis, I've given up on that idea. Even among friends, but especially novice hiker friends, you feel responsible for them because you are the most experienced or the person who knows the route. It's stressful enough worrying about your own safety, much less 5 or 8 other people.
My first time hiking during the winter was that infamous season of 2004-2005 where 3 people died on Baldy and RJ Secor was seriously injured in the bowl. One of these 3 deaths was the one Augie mentioned. I have the grim distinction of being on the mountain for 2 of those 4 incidents (the Halloween day disappearance of Eugene Lushevskiy and Secor's accident), so you could say I've got a healthy fear of what can happen here.Augie wrote:Two or three years ago, a California Mountaineering Club leader fell to his death going up the Baldy Village Trail when he slipped on a patch of ice. His crampons were still strapped to his pack when they recovered his body.
I remember very well the ice of 2003 - 2004 for very personal reasons. They were losing about a hiker a week dead from late Dec - Jan, and there were even more close calls.
Ice kills more people locally than avvies do. You're walking along, it's a nice day, you round a bend, there's some old snow, but it doesn't look bad, so you step over just catching the last lip as your heel touches down, and whoop you're down, possibly over the side.
The times between snows where a lot of freeze and thaw has occured can be deceptively dangerous. If there's snow all around you, you're in "snow mode." But if it's been a couple of weeks since it's snowed and it's just a 10' stretch with obvious footprints in it, do I really want to take off my pack, get my crampons on, walk 10', and un-do it all?
I can really relate to the man who died with his crampons on his back. Probably good footing most of the way with one bad patch which he may or may not have recognized before he stepped on it.
Ice kills more people locally than avvies do. You're walking along, it's a nice day, you round a bend, there's some old snow, but it doesn't look bad, so you step over just catching the last lip as your heel touches down, and whoop you're down, possibly over the side.
The times between snows where a lot of freeze and thaw has occured can be deceptively dangerous. If there's snow all around you, you're in "snow mode." But if it's been a couple of weeks since it's snowed and it's just a 10' stretch with obvious footprints in it, do I really want to take off my pack, get my crampons on, walk 10', and un-do it all?
I can really relate to the man who died with his crampons on his back. Probably good footing most of the way with one bad patch which he may or may not have recognized before he stepped on it.
If they went from Sturdevant Camp to Newcomb Saddle and then up the Rim trail to Mt. Wilson, there are defintiely serious drop offs.AlanK wrote:I am also having trouble recalling any 1000' chutes,
I don't remember any big drops on the standard Sturdevant trail route, but it was snow free last January when I did it, so it probably wasn't on my mind. As you approach the very top, though, there are some drop offs there. Wow, that would be a shame. Falling to one's death with the trailhead in sight.
Based on the mileage stated in the hike description (8 miles up), they went straight up from Sturtevant Camp to Wilson on the Sturtevant trail.Hikin_Jim wrote:If they went from Sturdevant Camp to Newcomb Saddle and then up the Rim trail to Mt. Wilson, there are defintiely serious drop offs.
It's amazing/scary how such an apparently innocent series of choices and events can lead to such a tragic accident (in all activities, not just hiking/climbing). And it really makes me think twice when such accidents happen in places I've been numerous times and during activities that I nonchalantly partake in all the time. Very sad.
Anyone have the location of where the hiker fell? I've hiked that trail pretty extensively, in good conditions and bad, and can only think of a couple of spots where this might happen. These locations aren't typically easy to fall from -- too many barriers between the trail and the exposure. It would be good for all of us who hike the Mt Wilson Trail to know what spots to be more careful on.
CFT3
CFT3
Yes, that would be interesting to know the spot. I've never thought of that trail as particularly dangerous, although I do remember a trail runner going over the edge some years ago due to ice.
You might check out this ODC thread: http://www.outdoorsclub.org/forum/displ ... Position=1
Pls post if you get any good info.
You might check out this ODC thread: http://www.outdoorsclub.org/forum/displ ... Position=1
Pls post if you get any good info.
Certainly after the accident. The reference to "chutes" makes me think that---plus, the ODC leader of that tragic hike would have some explaining to do if he hiked past a sign like that with a large group of hikers of varying abilities and none equipped for icy conditions.
I did this hike yesterday under benign conditions. My TR is here. I had not done the hike in years and was curious about how dangerous things could get near the top. The sign in the picture linked by HikeUp says it all. Above the spot called "Halfway Rest" between Sturdevant Camp and the summit there are several sopts that could be very dangerous under icy conditions. This one is my guess for the fatal section. It looks harmless now but, under icy conditions, one would pick up speed rapidly and rocket down the slope as far as the eye can see -- certainly hundreds of feet.
From the Crescenta Valley Sun
New ice team gets work out
By Mary O’Keefe
From a vantage point in La Crescenta, Mt. Wilson looks clear of snow, but snow still covers the north face of the peak. It is this winter blanket that has kept the Montrose Search and Rescue Team members busy the last two weekends.
“March 2 was an extremely busy day,” said Mike Leum, a longtime rescue team member. The team was first activated at noon on a call concerning a 20-year-old mountain biker with a broken leg.
The cyclist was on the road near Red Box and Switzer Falls when he fell from his bike and injured his leg.
The team responded at first with assistance from Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Air Five helicopter, but the wind was too strong for the chopper.
“We had to carry him out,” Leum said.
Later that afternoon the team received a rescue call for another mountain biker in his mid-20s.
“We were notified that a man had slipped and broken his ankle on the north side of Mt. Wilson, on the other side of the radio towers,” Leum said.
The biking partner of the injured man had made it to an area where his cellphone could get reception. As he was waiting for the rescue, seven hikers, two men and five women, came upon him.
“We came around the corner and found this guy in basketball shorts and a T-shirt,” said hiker Tracy Andreen of Los Angeles.
Andreen said that she and her companions were just beginning to put more layers of clothing on because of the weather. They were hiking on DeVore Trail to the top of Mount Wilson.
“It was a shock to see this guy dressed like that sitting there,” she said.
The man explained what happened and Andreen’s brother Keith walked the path and found the injured biker in a tree. He helped him back to the path and they waited for the rescue.
Los Angeles County Air Five helicopter was the first on the scene. Air Five rescue members cabled both the injured man and his friend into the helicopter.
They advised the seven hikers that they should not go any further due to weather, but they continued on the path to the top of Mt. Wilson.
“We went forward because we didn’t see any ice and we didn’t think it would take much longer [to reach the top],” Andreen said.
The seven were experienced hikers and are training for a Mount Whitney climb in June. Although they were prepared for the original planned their schedule was altered by the injured biker.
“We couldn’t just leave him there,” Andreen said.
Not long after continuing on their they realized it was getting a lot colder and the ice was increasing.
“We were prepared, we had walked through the snow, but we weren’t prepared for the ice [that had since developed],” Andreen said.
About two feet of snow and ice covered the area. The rescue team was notified by Air Five that the seven hikers now needed help.
Team members Robert Sheedy, Jason Johnson and Leum had to use ice equipment and crawl across the “rock-hard ice,” Leum said.
“This [stranded] group had also started from the back of the mountain and were not prepared for climbing in the ice,” Leum said.
Andreen said that by the time they saw the Montrose Search and Rescue team members they were relieved, although they were only about a half a mile from the top Mt. Wilson so the emotion was mixed with a little regret.
“We were so close,” she said.
“We spent the rest of the night walking them out,” Leum said. “We had to put harnesses on them and guide them across the ice.”
“People look up at Mt. Wilson and it looks bone dry. What they don’t realize is the north facing side of the mountain doesn’t get much sun,” Leum said.
Andreen said that being rescued was a surreal experience but she was glad to see them.
“We cannot say enough good things about these guys,” Andreen said.
“They were professional and we had a delightful chat the five hours it took as we hiked out of the area,” she added.
The upside of the rescue was the information Andreen and the other hikers learned from the team members about ice and snow.
“Who would ever think I would own an ice ax, but I do now,” Andreen said.
The snow caught four Burbank men, also in their early 20s, off guard on Sunday, March 9, when they had to call for a rescue.
“We [rescued] all four guys,” Leum said. “They didn’t have one jacket among them.”
Team members continue training this weekend when they travel to the Mammoth Lakes area to scale a frozen waterfall.
Sounds like they got summit fever. Usually if you run into ice and don't have the gear, it only takes a couple of feet of walking on that stuff to know you better turn around. So for them to get stranded I'm guessing that they kept going and going until they realized they couldn't go back down anymore.
I wonder if it hardened up after they started crossing it? They said "experienced hikers," but I'm not sure that they're super experienced if they want to cross ice in steep terrain w/o gear. 
That kind of sucks that SAR told 'em to turn back and they didn't and had to call SAR back out. That's one of those cases where one begins to wonder: "maybe SAR should charge them for this one."
Hope that's not too critical/judgemental; I obviously wasn't there.
That kind of sucks that SAR told 'em to turn back and they didn't and had to call SAR back out. That's one of those cases where one begins to wonder: "maybe SAR should charge them for this one."
Hope that's not too critical/judgemental; I obviously wasn't there.
Ahh, you're probably right. This would make sense since they were delayed by helping the first guy and when they were rescued they were escorted down in the dark. They also said they crossed the snow but we're prepared for the ice later.Hikin_Jim wrote:I wonder if it hardened up after they started crossing it? They said "experienced hikers," but I'm not sure that they're super experienced if they want to cross ice in steep terrain w/o gear.
This is so sad.
Back in May of 2003 I slipped on ice in the San Gabriels and slid/bounced/somersaulted down an icy slope. I lost nearly 700 feet of altitude before finally stopping in the canyon below. I thought long and hard before posting this but I finally decided to do so for two very different reasons.
First, to the family and friends of Nicole, I highly doubt that she felt any pain. Even though I had dozens of broken bones and other problems after the fall, and even though I was conscious the entire time, I felt nothing. I don't know if its adrenalne or endorphins or what it is, but the body has a way of protecting us from sensations of pain during events of severe trauma. This experience was confirmed by other trauma victims that I met during my hospital days following the accident. This experience is nothing at all like spraining an ankle or breaking an arm.
To the hikers that follow this board, PLEASE take ice in the mountains VERY SERIOUSLY. You have no idea how quickly something like this can happen and how completely helpless you are when it does. I reached a velocity that took my fate out of my hands within seconds of the slip. I don't walk on ice anymore. About 6 weeks ago I was hiking up the Old Mt. Wilson Trail on the south side of the peak and stopped 200 feet from the top due to ice covering the trail at the last switchback before the parking lot. While I was taking a break and eating some food before heading back down, another hiker came up and made the same decision. Rather then risking the ice, we enjoyed a very nice 2 hour walk back down the trail to Sierra Madre.
My deepest condolences to Nicole's family. When fit people who are in the prime of their life decide to spend a pleasant day in the mountains, they are not expected to die while doing so. This is so very, very, very sad.
May God bless you,
RV
Back in May of 2003 I slipped on ice in the San Gabriels and slid/bounced/somersaulted down an icy slope. I lost nearly 700 feet of altitude before finally stopping in the canyon below. I thought long and hard before posting this but I finally decided to do so for two very different reasons.
First, to the family and friends of Nicole, I highly doubt that she felt any pain. Even though I had dozens of broken bones and other problems after the fall, and even though I was conscious the entire time, I felt nothing. I don't know if its adrenalne or endorphins or what it is, but the body has a way of protecting us from sensations of pain during events of severe trauma. This experience was confirmed by other trauma victims that I met during my hospital days following the accident. This experience is nothing at all like spraining an ankle or breaking an arm.
To the hikers that follow this board, PLEASE take ice in the mountains VERY SERIOUSLY. You have no idea how quickly something like this can happen and how completely helpless you are when it does. I reached a velocity that took my fate out of my hands within seconds of the slip. I don't walk on ice anymore. About 6 weeks ago I was hiking up the Old Mt. Wilson Trail on the south side of the peak and stopped 200 feet from the top due to ice covering the trail at the last switchback before the parking lot. While I was taking a break and eating some food before heading back down, another hiker came up and made the same decision. Rather then risking the ice, we enjoyed a very nice 2 hour walk back down the trail to Sierra Madre.
My deepest condolences to Nicole's family. When fit people who are in the prime of their life decide to spend a pleasant day in the mountains, they are not expected to die while doing so. This is so very, very, very sad.
May God bless you,
RV
Augie: My fall happened on Mt. Islip. I was taking the PCT from Islip saddle up to Windy Gap. I slipped off of the trail and slid down one of the chutes coming off of that mountain. My fall stopped about 40 feet from the Angeles Crest Highway below. I am sure that most readers of this board have taken that trail many times and noticed that you can see the ACH down below. That's where I fell.
You are correct. Someone was definitely looking out for me that day. I have gone back and looked at the spot many times since then and I cannot imagine how I survived. On the positive side, the event has added tremendous value to my life because I appreciate every day so much more now. I was very lucky.
RV
You are correct. Someone was definitely looking out for me that day. I have gone back and looked at the spot many times since then and I cannot imagine how I survived. On the positive side, the event has added tremendous value to my life because I appreciate every day so much more now. I was very lucky.
RV
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JMunaretto
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:03 am
I am just reporting what I've heard without definitively knowing the veracity, as I think it does not hurt to know any more potential information.
The snow was not totally iced over but enough so that if you did not step down hard enough, you would not break through. At this point, the lady had a sort of panic attack, and sat down on the ice.
The leader of the hike came over and offered to help her up, but she wanted to do it herself, and while try to get up, she slipped.
Again, I am not sure if this is true, I just wanted to mention what I heard. Although it does fit the bill of how Richard mentioned how you wouldn't believe how she slipped
The snow was not totally iced over but enough so that if you did not step down hard enough, you would not break through. At this point, the lady had a sort of panic attack, and sat down on the ice.
The leader of the hike came over and offered to help her up, but she wanted to do it herself, and while try to get up, she slipped.
Again, I am not sure if this is true, I just wanted to mention what I heard. Although it does fit the bill of how Richard mentioned how you wouldn't believe how she slipped
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FIGHT ON
I know this guy personally. I went to high school with him. Ran into him on Iron Mt. and he told me what really happened.JMunaretto wrote:The leader of the hike
