the author's confidence in "emergency services personel" involved, with exception going to the towing service, has been severely degraded
It will be a VERY cold day in Hell before I'm "rescued" in my mountains
I know Search and Rescue wasn't involved in the TC incident referred to above in Taco's original post, but thought I'd share a thought about the caliber of one of the emergency service providers in the area...
Last Saturday night, the West Valley SAR team was called out to search for a missing hiker in the Mt. Baldy area. As it happens, the team operates out of the Chino Hills Sheriff Station (since that station is responsible for the "West End" of the San Bernardino Valley hence the "West Valley" name). Many of the team members live in Chino Hills. And at the very time the team was assembling to respond to the call out, the Freeway Complex Fire was raging out of control, half a mile away, and threatening the homes of many of the team members.
From the time the team assembled, and all throughout the night, not a single team member whined or complained or even mentioned what had to be constantly on their minds, namely the immediate threat to family and home. Every action taken, every radio communication, were done professionally and efficiently with the sole objective of finding the lost hiker.
This went on from Saturday night through Sunday afternoon. Many of the team members were in the field this entire time with absolutely no way of knowing what was happening back home.
That is the caliber of the volunteers who are out there "watching your back" in case you ever get into trouble.
Just thought I'd share that. (Personal note: If you're wondering about my relationship to the team, this is no reflection on me; I don't live in Chino Hills.)
BTW, Taco, from reading your past posts, it seems you do some fairly hazardous activities in the mountains - at least beyond the range of the average hiker. It's not too far fetched to think that some day you might actually need to be rescued. All it would take is a misstep on a loose rock resulting in a twisted or broken ankle, or being five miles out and getting bit by a rattlesnake, or whatever. That's no reflection on your manhood - things happen. When you do things that push the limits, you increase the risk. Nothing to be ashamed of.
If this means anything to any of you, I hope you'll consider supporting the team in some way, whether financially or otherwise. Contact details are on their web site www.westvalleysar.org
Re: Emergency Services Comment
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:12 pm
by Hikin_Jim
The SAR guys are amazing. I don't know how they do it.
Re: Emergency Services Comment
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:23 pm
by Taco
I have boatloads of respect for SAR folks. I would like to be on a SAR team if I could afford to feed myself.
My comment was directed at the California Highway Patrol, however, in case this was missed, as I wasn't blunt. I do not have any positive experiences with them.
The situation calling for my buddy and I requiring "rescue" was ludicrous in that we were standing around at the phone booths at Camp Williams General Store. Sending SAR would be very sad, a misappropriation of volunteers. I understand that I may not have made this clear.
As I stated before, I figured one day I would have a real job (I work at Starbucks and can barely afford to live at home), I would join West Valley SAR if at all possible, which might happen sooner rather than later, if my job training places me nicely.
I'm sorry if I misinterpreted anything due to my style of writing that night.
Re: Emergency Services Comment
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:26 am
by Tim
I didn't read Taco's comment as a dig towards SAR either. Most of the members on this board are very advance hikers/climbers and I think it's safe to say we all have mucho respect for SAR. But we also have a lot of self-respect and a sense of personal responsibility.
So the comment about a cold day in hell doesn't mean we are superhuman and above SAR. It just means we're out here doing crazy sh*t and we're suppose to know what we're doing. If you know what you're doing, chances are you won't need to be rescued unless things go completely FUBAR.
My brother knows some LEOs (Sheriffs Dept and city PD). Even within LE, CHP is generally thought of as having attitudes, maybe because they think they are at the top of the LEO pecking order.
Not saying every single CHP is bad or other LEOs are better, but check this out.
Esperanza Fire, Oct, 2006 : A California Highway Patrol officer does his best to prevent a news crew from covering a deadly forest fire, even ignoring his orders from dispatch to "allow the media in" and threatening instead to arrest the news crew. Federal Law prevents law enforcement from restricting the movement of the news media except that they are not permitted in a crime scene.
Re: Emergency Services Comment
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:04 pm
by ClamberAbout
Hey guys...
Sorry, no, I didn't take Taco's post as a dig on SAR either. That's why I pointed out that SAR wasn't referred to in his post.
Obviously I have some awareness of what the West Valley SAR team is up to. In San Bernardino County there is a very strict policy that you are not allowed to discuss SAR operations with the public, so I'll leave it at that.
The more I thought about it though, the more in awe I felt for the dedication and professionalism of the team members under those amazing circumstances. So, I wanted to share that story anyway. And, lest someone inadvertently get the misapprehension that all of the first responders in the area were a bunch of clueless idiots, I wanted to the opportunity to make the point that not all are, and elaborate on the extent to which that isn't the case.
Having said that, had the clueless CHP officer actually initiated a SAR callout, hopefully the Sheriff coordinator would have sorted the situation out long before paging the team out. And, if he hadn't, it would have been an L.A. County team that responded (haven't looked at map to figure out which one). BTW, the L.A. teams too, such as San Dimas, Sierra Madre, etc., are likewise consumate professionals as well. I've seen them inoperation and would not hesitate to put my life in their hands if necessary.
As far as Taco's "cold day in Hell" comment, I didn't take that as being a dig. Sure we're all supposed to know our limits and be competent enough to take care of ourselves. And we'd all definitely prefer to self-rescue if anything amiss did happen. But, say a newbie reads that comment? I just wanted to point out that one need not take the attitude that "I will never, ever call SAR ..." or along those lines. That's what the teams exist for after all.
How about objective hazards? Even the best hiker/climber can be nailed by rockfall, bit by a snake, have a rock roll out from under their foot, etc. That's no reflection on your skill whatsoever; it's just a result of being out in the wilderness. BTW, I've seen rockfall many times in the Baldy area, especially on winter afternoons when the rock up high starts to warm up. Scary stuff. Broke a friend of mine's foot. So, s**t happens.
Re: Emergency Services Comment
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:15 pm
by Taco
ClamberAbout wrote:As far as Taco's "cold day in Hell" comment, I didn't take that as being a dig. Sure we're all supposed to know our limits and be competent enough to take care of ourselves. And we'd all definitely prefer to self-rescue if anything amiss did happen. But, say a newbie reads that comment? I just wanted to point out that one need not take the attitude that "I will never, ever call SAR ..." or along those lines. That's what the teams exist for after all.
I understand that a new guy might read that, but I've come to accept that if they accept MY methods and attitude that works for me specifically, they'll probably learn something the hard way. I don't post many "disclaimers" with what I do, or how I do it. My actions are mine alone, and if someone gets hurt because they grossly misinterpreted what I said or did, that is not my responsibility. Everyone has their own head.
I'm not above asking SAR for help if I get hurt. I am a magnet for rockfall, and have been hit many times on alpine climbs above a boatload of exposure on snow, ice, rock, etc. My right hand was broken last year from this, and I've been hit in my legs as well. Seems like when ya wear a helmet, the rocks gladly hit ya elsewhere.
On another note, my own stance on rescue that I tell to those I care about (who are concerned for my return from the mountains), is give me three days from my expected time home. If it's a daytrip, and I'm not home by midnight, give me three days to get back home under my own power, as perhaps something has come up, or maybe I ended up getting picked up by a friend and I'm unable to contact you, etc. 3 days should be enough time to move out of the mountains on-foot, with minor injuries, and get home. On the 4th day, it's assumed I'm in trouble and require outside assistance.
So, I hope everyone know's what's up and where everyone else is coming from.
I think these two are idiots. I don't care if the cop is wrong or right, I don't argue with anybody who has a gun.
The pig was out of line here, pulling a sweaty Alpha Male domination stunt against some legitimate mainstream media outlet solely because he -- the pig -- got in to the job just to have power over others. He didn't care that the press ban had been removed, all he cared about was committing violations of people's civil rights because he's living a repressed homosexual domination fantasy.
Sorry, but I know the cop mindset. I have done training with cops from Semi Valley to Indian Springs Air Force Base, India, Holland, Malasyia, London and Japan. I find the same mindset among all police officers everywhere, not one of which got the job to "serve and protect" citzens.
On the other hand, we need police officers, cops that are willing to actuall protect the citizens rather than uphold the law.
--heh-- Sweet Baby Jesus, when it comes to cops and O. J. Simpson, I immediately launch off in to a froth.
You may think you know the mindset, but unless you have walked a mile in another mans shoes you don't have a clue about just how tough that job is. Cops hear nothing but BS all day, and are under a microscope. Officers make mistakes, but often end up second guessed for doing nothing more than their jobs. Media are sometimes the most difficult to protect, and often need to be protected from themselves. Chuck Henry for example.
The name you use for officer is a perfect example of the type of attitude they deal with on a regular basis.
I'm not sure exactly what it is you do, but I am certain if you were called "pig" it might change your attitude toward others.
Just my opinon, oughta be yours. 8)
Re: Emergency Services Comment
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:37 am
by Bill
DamOTclese wrote:
Bill wrote:
I trained with field Officers, I taught technical telecommunications infrastructure courses to office police staffers, I even worked with the FBI field offices here in West Covina and I worked along side police in all the countries I listed. I know cops. They divide the human race in to three groups (1) other law enforcement officers, (2) criminals, (3) criminals who haven't been caught yet.
