EISPIRATEN

I have a basic question for everyone. What is the official name of the trail that stretches from the bend of Canyon Crest Road in lower Millard and goes north along the creek? There's a boulder https://www.mountainproject.com/area/10 ... am-boulder that is located next to the piping about 1/8th mile up that I have climbed on a bit that is claimed to be on the private property of the Arroyos & Foothills Conservancy. The boulder seems to be within the easement of the La Vina trail but would climbing on it be considered trespassing? Also would hiking the trail be considered trespassing?

Tim Martinez made a mountain project account just to comment and say: "Can the Admins please remove this boulder and location from this webpage? This boulder is located on the Arroyos & Foothills Conservancy's Millard Canyon Preserve. Climbers have ripped out native plants, chopped down trees, and split boulders in order to access this spot, which is not appropriate behavior within our nature preserve. Please contact me with any questions: timmartinez@arroyosfoothills.org"

I decided to send him an email and pursue this a bit further and he responded with a few photos alleging that climbers chiseled smaller rocks and moved rocks away from the landing area. He also shows a picture of a tree with one limb chopped off (I have no idea why a climber would remove a limb? Maybe it was in the way of the climb?) He then concludes our email stating that he does not allow climbing on the property due to the climbers damaging the area and that they've lost their privileges.

Is this all legal? Can I climb? Is there a recreation easement that covers the rock?

It's commonly called the Lower Millard Canyon Trail. I don't know what you mean by "the easement for the La Vina trail." As far as I know, there is no easement. La Vina sold their surrounding open space to Conservancy groups. I believe the boulder in question is on land now owned by either the AFC or the SMMC. Whatever is in the acquisition agreement, I doubt it protects access for bouldering.

Is there any signage or fencing? If not, I'd say you're fine to climb.

Sean, there was a lawsuit between La Vina Homeowners Association and LA County over the HOA blocking public access to the canyon in the 2010s which resulted in La Vina losing. They then had an easement along a trail they were supposed to build but ended up half completing.

No fences or anything. I think I'm going to go to LA County assessor and ask about their land ownership and how much they actually own and control. I hate people banning climbing like it's different then other types of recreation.

I read the California Appeals Court case. The easements are for "hiking and equestrian trails." Other activities are not mentioned. In your pursuit of climbing, I wouldn't use the argument that climbing is not different from hiking or riding horses. First, it's inherently more dangerous than hiking. And second, it requires leaving the trail and disturbing the natural area of the canyon. Even the FS will shut down climbing and/or hiking if it's causing too much damage to the natural environment and animals. I suggest first figuring out whether the rock is on AFC or SMMC land, then offering to help them restore the affected area and go from there.

Sean wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:48 am I read the California Appeals Court case. The easements are for "hiking and equestrian trails." Other activities are not mentioned. In your pursuit of climbing, I wouldn't use the argument that climbing is not different from hiking or riding horses. First, it's inherently more dangerous than hiking. And second, it requires leaving the trail and disturbing the natural area of the canyon. Even the FS will shut down climbing and/or hiking if it's causing too much damage to the natural environment and animals. I suggest first figuring out whether the rock is on AFC or SMMC land, then offering to help them restore the affected area and go from there.

Thanks Sean, I will use that approach!