EISPIRATEN

Yesterday my buddy and I walked from the Santa Clara Divide / Little Tujunga intersection to Magic Mountain, then down to Capra Road via the route that David R posted about. The hike went well and it was a fun day.

We started walking just before 5. (We like early morning starts and sunrises. A lot of our hikes include fire roads and even highways, which seem much more charming in the dark, without cars.) Nearing the summit there were patches of snow on the shoulders, and we were treated to a spectacular dawn behind Mendenhall Ridge, dusted by the year’s first snow.

We stopped at a concrete pad just east of the transmitter site to eat and consider the way down. The north side of the ridge had much more snow than the south side we'd just walked, making for a very pretty winter scene. We saw that we could either follow the road up past the towers to the steep top of the firebreak or contour over to a lower part of it, saving some up and down. Either way, there’d be plenty of snow and brush. I still don't know which way is better but we chose to contour, angling west and down through foot deep powder, which gave us good traction. Hiking poles helped, too. The firebreak was hidden from view, but we could see from the downloaded route that we were on course. After about an hour of slogging we reached it at ~4500’, then dropped more steeply towards the saddle below.

Those sections made for a jolly winter hiking experience but Dima had warned me to beware of poodle dog bush in burn areas, and there were large areas of plants that resembled the photos I’d seen. It had no smell. I don’t know if that stuff was really Eriodictyon parry, and most of it looked dead or dying, but we took care to step around it or stomp it against the ground to avoid direct contact with the leaves.

The rest off the hike down to Capra Road was nice and mostly easy, with spectacular views. Though steep in places (my knees really hurt after scouting it the first time), this is a very scenic walk. The way is distinct and not very brushy.

Next we plan to walk another route that David R described, the trail/firebreak from Acton Conservation Camp to High Point. From the ridge we'll loop back to the Indian Canyon Trailhead via 4N37.

Many thanks to David R for his very helpful posts, and to Dima for fielding my many questions. This area is new to me but I feel like I'm learning the ropes, and our one segment a week trek, which started in Glendale, has been very satisfying so far.

Below are some photos of this very enjoyable walk. Maybe someone can tell me whether all that growth that we gyrated around was really poodle dog bush.

Thanks for the report. What was the mileage of your route? I still need to bag Magic Mtn.

Yes, that's poodle dog, but the scat might be from a cat, it doesn't look like bear to me. If you post it in the Fauna section the animal experts could probably tell you.

I'm no expert, but from what I know, pointed ends usually mean "carnivore". So yeah, I'd say big cat.

Thanks for the feedback. It was 12.6 miles, 2849 feet of climbing. Here's my recording: https://www.strava.com/activities/4556852297

Definitely poodle dog. My understanding from the research I have done is that the toxin is only on the hairy green leaves. This would be unlike poison oak where the toxins are on the entire plant. Unfortunately there is not a lot of information on poodle dog. After one unfortunate encounter years ago, I do not want to be the crash test dummy to find out more.

Nice pics! I was just up there Sat (bike loop, 3N17 from Bear Divide to Indian Cyn, then Soledad/Sand Cyn return). The Indian Cyn Rd had much snow cover down to about 1100m/3600ft, much of it was packed/ice due to vehicle traffic, and on steep shaded sections of road. Temps should remain cool, so the ice may consolidate. Also, Indian Cyn used to have a few muddy stream crossings...these have been replaced with constructed fords.

JerryN wrote: ↑Definitely poodle dog. My understanding from the research I have done is that the toxin is only on the hairy green leaves. This would be unlike poison oak where the toxins are on the entire plant. Unfortunately there is not a lot of information on poodle dog. After one unfortunate encounter years ago, I do not want to be the crash test dummy to find out more.

There is pretty clear data on poodle dog and what causes the skin irritations. There are hairs on the plant that are sticky and get attached to clothes and skin. The chemical detail can be read up in a scientific journal as far as the specifics of the irritants on those hairs. The body can also have a memory response which my body does when I get close to poodle dog after my escapade of getting stuck in a forest of poodle dog between Red Box and Switzer. I also recognize the smell from a mile away as well, there are times when I do not see the plant but smell it and only later find it based on that.

David R, that is what I found as well, but I found no references to the presence or absence of the toxin on the stems or on dead leaves. I assume that unlike Poison Oak, there is no toxin on the stems or elsewhere. Do you have any evidence on this?

I don't have the memory response that you have however.

Interesting comments about poodle dog bush! A month ago I’d never heard of it, now I’m quite curious about this weird plant. David R’s description of being in “a forest” of it really struck me because up there last Saturday, that’s just what Kurt and I were thinking…that we were in a forest of poodle dog. It’s been over 4 days and neither of us have symptoms so I guess we avoided its wrath.

Jerry and David, it sounds like you both had bad experiences with it. Did you come into contact with just one or two little bits, or was it more than that?

On Saturday, luckily, we were almost fully covered up because of the cold. It only touched our pants and jackets a few times, which couldn’t be fully avoided. I don’t think it ever touched my skin. We couldn’t help touching our clothes as the day went on, but I apparently that wasn’t an issue.

It seems odd that while there was loads of it, we noticed no smell at all. I even tried to carefully sniff it at one point. About half of it looked brownish and dying or dead; the rest was dark green but obviously had seen better days. Maybe it had lost its mojo.

I’m interested in the memory reaction. I’d read that for example a person might get it on their ankle, that heals, and then a year later they get it on their arm but the site from a year ago also has symptoms. But David, you had a response just from smelling it, which curious.

That reminds me of an old Huell Howser episode where he visited the Uncle Milton Ant Farm at their secret location in the desert, where workers vacuum ants out of the ground. When they showed Huell a pail of about 8000 ants he started feeling very itchy and uncomfortable. The workers said was a universal reaction and that it was very hard to hire people, because nearly everyone feels itchy just from seeing so many ants, and it’s hard to overcome that.

On Saturday my buddy and I will head back to Soledad Canyon and walk from the Conservation Camp to High Point, then back down to the highway via Indian Canyon Rd. I guess it’ll be all fire road and fire break but the views should be good, and I’m curious to see more of that area. (I keep wondering what it looked like before the Sand Fire!)

David Martin wrote: ↑When they showed Huell a pail of about 8000 ants he started feeling very itchy and uncomfortable. The workers said was a universal reaction and that it was very hard to hire people, because nearly everyone feels itchy just from seeing so many ants, and it’s hard to overcome that.

I believe this results from the way we store perceptual data in our memory. Along with the image of ants crawling on our skin, we also store the sensation of them crawling on us. So in the future the mere sight of ants might trigger the memory of the associated sensation, producing a phantom itching feeling. But this doesn't happen to me. I think because I recognize that the ants aren't crawling on me, and my memory of the sensation is not associated with ants in general.

As for poodle dog, I unwittingly waded through a whole field of it on the northface of Mt. Deception. This was in spring/summer when the stuff was freshly in bloom. After delighting in the beautiful purple flowers, I reached the summit and was promptly informed by some onlookers of my big mistake, for which I paid dearly during the next long month. Now I always point out poodle dog to fellow hikers. I don't want them to suffer the same fate.

mine was similar to Sean except that it was Strawberry Peak. A scientific article I read said that you need a higher concentration than for urushiol, the poison oak/ivy/sumac toxin. It then went on to say that it doesn't take much of either to cause a reaction. My guess is that brushing up against it, particularly with clothing is not an issue. I was out on the Topatopa and encountered just a little, worried a lot, no reaction though.

You do need to be careful about transferring the oil from your clothes to your car seat, arm rest, furniture at home, etc. I kept re-exposing myself to poison oak that way once.

Nice route, David!

My guess is that most of us had our first direct encounter with the dreaded poodle after the Station Fire burn area reopened around 2011-2012 I think - It's funny that I had a similar rude awakening in the same general vicinity as the others did here - I walked valley forge trail to eaton saddle brushing up against it and realized about three days later what all those pretty purple flowers were.

I've been told it can go dormant for decades and wait for fire activity to germinate. I certainly hadn't encounter it much or even heard much about it before then. - The smell is quite pungent and recognizable and I have the same experience as David R - I usually smell it before I see it. It seems to be going dormant again in the station fire zone as the chaparral recovers and crowds it out.

The plants in your photo have a bit of green left, but are well past their prime when they don't seem to pose as much danger.

Nice post!

walker wrote: ↑I walked valley forge trail to eaton saddle brushing up against it and realized about three days later what all those pretty purple flowers were.

That is 100% what happened to me. That trail was completely overgrown with pretty little purple flowers

Thanks for the report. I also need Magic Mountain. It's seems like a good candidate for a bike.

I've only had one bad experience with poodle dog at the Pinnacles north of Lake Arrowhead. Got stuck in a field of it, in shorts, and had welts for about a week. Poison oak is worse for me, maybe because I get it once or twice a year. I've even had it on my face, neck, and ears. 1/10 would not recommend.