EISPIRATEN

http://www.westernslopenofee.org/wp-con ... mended.pdf

Sites that require Adventure Pass- note: unlisted amount of free parking must be available within 1/2 a mile & sign/notice shall be posted at fee sites.
6000’ Day Use Area
Buckhorn Station Day Use Area
Burkhardt Trailhead
Chantry Flats Day Use
Charlton Flat Day Use
Chilao Picnic Area
Colby Bridge Day Use
Delta Flat Day Use
Devil’s Canyon Day Use Area
Eagle Roost Day Use Area
East Fork
Grassy Hollow Picnic
Icehouse Trailhead
Indian Canyon Trailhead
Inspiration Point
Islip Saddle Day Use
Jarvi Memorial Day Use
Mill Creek Summit Picnic
Millard Day Use
Mt. Pacifico Trailhead
North Fork Picnic
Oak Springs Picnic
Oak Springs Trailhead
Piru Ponds Day Use
Pony Park Day Use
Red Box Picnic
Skyline Park
Stonyvale Day Use
Switzer’s Picnic
Three Points Day Use
Upper Bear Creek
Vincent’s Gap
Vogel Flat Day Use
West Fork Trailhead
Wildwood Day Use
Wilson Saddle
Windy Gap (Little Jimmy) Trailhead

Along National Forest System roads, Federal Defendant shall strive to ensure the continuing availability of the fee-free roadside parking options that exist as of the effective date of this Agreement and that are located within .5 miles of the SARF sites listed in Exhibit A. However, Federal Defendant cannot guarantee that all existing fee-free roadside parking options will remain available for the term of this Agreement. Federal Defendant retains discretion to eliminate fee-free roadside parking options to address public safety, resource, or other management concerns, such as traffic or congestion problems or environmental resource damage as a result of over-use or natural events such as flooding or erosion. Federal Defendant also may eliminate fee-free
roadside parking to comply with statutes, regulations, or other legal requirements.

Game. Set. Match. Uncle Sam wins with a blistering backhand that barely falls within the lines.

I've been to England. It's nice.

Sean wrote: ↑ Game. Set. Match. Uncle Sam wins with a blistering backhand that barely falls within the lines.

Not this settlement. They keep on suggesting that the Monument reports to the Angeles Forest....and is not separate....like its some kind of zone within the broader Angeles forest.

So when they say you need an adventure pass to park on Monument land...well thats bunk. An adventure pass is to park on forest service land. The monument is not their land, they just manage it. And since the land grabbers couldnt manage an acre by themselves, they just sue the forest service to follow their orders.

And then there is the Monument constantly saying Angeles Forest land is in the monument...."The San Gabriel Mountains National Monument Fund projects are starting to heat up as the summer temperatures begin to rise. The Arundo Removal and Habitat Restoration project removed 6 acres of the invasive plant from Big Tujunga and Little Tujunga Canyons, ensuring more water will stay in the ground when the rains return in the fall."

HikeUp wrote: ↑I've been to England. It's nice.

AW wrote: ↑And since the land grabbers couldnt manage an acre by themselves, they just sue the forest service to follow their orders.

The Forest Service works by refusing to do anything about anything until forced to do so. They won't even comply with their own forest plans until sued. I think it's worth noting that most of the people behind the monument really wanted a San Gabriel Mountains NRA specifically to take the management of the San Gabriels away from the inept Forest Service.

I'm not understanding the whole FS vs. Monument land argument. "Monument" is not an agency that owns or manages land. It's merely a classification of Federal land. The FS manages both the Angeles Forest and the Monument within. And now they have free reign to eliminate fee-free roadside parking for reasons as arbitrary as "management concerns."

Sean wrote: ↑I'm not understanding the whole FS vs. Monument land argument. "Monument" is not an agency that owns or manages land. It's merely a classification of Federal land. The FS manages both the Angeles Forest and the Monument within. And now they have free reign to eliminate fee-free roadside parking for reasons as arbitrary as "management concerns."

The monument designation was just a way to get around Congresses resistance to designating a San Gabriel Mountains NRA. NRAs are administered by the National Park Service, which is distinctly more competent and capable than the Forest Service in terms of managing public lands for recreational use.

They are not afraid to make and enforce rules like not spray painting on the trees and rocks and not leaving piles of trash everywhere. The Forest Service is so politically correct that they're afraid to enforce such rules for fear of being accused of racism. Instead they just sit idly by while the forest gets trashed, and on the rare occasion that they receive additional funding to help the forest they spend it on new people to warm seats in Arcadia.

Sean wrote: ↑I'm not understanding the whole FS vs. Monument land argument. "Monument" is not an agency that owns or manages land. It's merely a classification of Federal land. The FS manages both the Angeles Forest and the Monument within. And now they have free reign to eliminate fee-free roadside parking for reasons as arbitrary as "management concerns."

I should have been clearer. Yes, its still federal land so a fee can be charged...no question the monument can charge no matter who manages it.

But...the Adventure pass specifies 4 national forests....not the monument.
On the adventure pass page, it lists the monument sites as "Angeles National Forest"...well, they arent in the Angeles Forest.
It specifies the East Fork San Gabriel River as "San Gabriel River district"....which is no longer true.

Simply adding the Monument to the list on next year's pass is not so simple....seems to me the proclamation assumes Monument monies will be spent on the Monument...not subsidizing other FS lands. But I would think they would at least add the monument to the list. Once they actually start managing it with a management plan.

AW wrote: ↑But...the Adventure pass specifies 4 national forests....not the monument.
On the adventure pass page, it lists the monument sites as "Angeles National Forest"...well, they arent in the Angeles Forest.
It specifies the East Fork San Gabriel River as "San Gabriel River district"....which is no longer true.

I see. You are saying that the Monument is not part of the ANF. I'm pretty sure it is, similar to how the federally designated Wilderness areas are still part of the Forest. The Monument and Wilderness areas simply have special rules that don't necessarily apply in the rest of the Forest.

SGBob wrote: ↑ The monument designation was just a way to get around Congresses resistance to designating a San Gabriel Mountains NRA. NRAs are administered by the National Park Service, which is distinctly more competent and capable than the Forest Service in terms of managing public lands for recreational use.

NRAs are not unique to NPS. Both BLM and FS manage NRAs as well.

Am I reading this completely wrong? Does this mean no Forest pass at Manker trail head?

Hayduke wrote: ↑NRAs are not unique to NPS. Both BLM and FS manage NRAs as well.

Perhaps my post was poorly worded, but what I meant was that this specific NRA was intended to be managed by NPS or at least with NPS oversight.

drndr wrote: ↑Am I reading this completely wrong? Does this mean no Forest pass at Manker trail head?

Same question. My Adventure Pass expires next month, should I be saving up for a new one? The money isn't a big deal but I would sleep better if it actually gets spent in improvements or at least maintaining status quo.

drndr wrote: ↑Am I reading this completely wrong? Does this mean no Forest pass at Manker trail head?

I don't know for sure. But there is no developed trailhead parking for the Notch Service Road to Baldy Bowl/Ski Hut Trail. It's all street parking. No permanent restrooms. Not sure about picnic tables. Don't see how they could justify requiring a parking pass.

I think my opinion is unpopular, but I just don't see the big deal in paying the forest service $30/yr. I just put my pass up every time I park regardless and don't worry about it.

I mean it's a $30 entry fee to go to Sequoia for one week. $30/yr for four forests seems like a bargain. And theoretically that money is going to upkeep?

VermillionPearlGirl wrote: ↑I think my opinion is unpopular, but I just don't see the big deal in paying the forest service $30/yr. I just put my pass up every time I park regardless and don't worry about it.

I mean it's a $30 entry fee to go to Sequoia for one week. $30/yr for four forests seems like a bargain. And theoretically that money is going to upkeep?

I'm with you. I always bought one and always displayed it. I spend $30 a week on beer.

I go to a lot of national parks, both with my family and with my son's boy scout troop so I always buy the national parks pass or whatever they call it now. It covers the adventure pass use fee so I display it when I need to, like when I park at Chantry Flats.

At a place like the Baldy notch trail head parking may or may not. Depends on if I remember to put it up or not. I had a girl come up to me yesterday morning when I got back to my truck and was changing out my shoes after hiking register ridge. She asked where she could buy an adventure pass. I told her that she could pick one up down the hill at the ranger station but because the trail head area lacked the improvements necessary to require it in the lawsuit that I wouldn't sweat it.

I have parked at Manker Flats for the past 5 years and have never had a pass...and never got a citation...I am not against getting a pass....but if there is no enforcement why should I pay???

A6 wrote: ↑I have parked at Manker Flats for the past 5 years and have never had a pass...and never got a citation...I am not against getting a pass....but if there is no enforcement why should I pay???

For non-locals reading this, we are talking about the street parking across from Manker Flats campground. Not the campground parking, which you do need to pay for.