EISPIRATEN

Heard this on the news this morning and Hiker Hell has a post on it with links.

Yikes!

Down our way, I'm more worried about coming across someone's marijuana farm than getting shot by a hunter, but it's always sobering when hiking starts to look as dangerous as being in the city.

That kid really messed up. Something big in the woods "must" be a bear, right?

Poor kid in a way. Stuff like this tends to haunt one.

Messed up situation all around.

Yet another side benefit to being a Trojan! (Trojans don't look like those guys at Berserkeley)

Wow, that's tragic and sobering.

Notice that the victim was from "Oso?"

Weird.

I was doing pine and dawson last deer season and we could hear gun fire but not see the hunters. On the way back we finally saw them( and their illegal camp fire) Its kind of scary when you can hear shots and not tell where they are coming from.

Update.

HikeUp wrote:Update.

Pam’s family members are stifled by her death. They wonder how she could’ve been mistaken for a bear if she was wearing a bright blue poncho and hiking in a valley with no obscured views.

Back in the 1980s, I recall an incident involving a hunter in Maine. Not surprisingly, it is illegal to shoot within a certain distance of a house. Nevertheless, this genius managed to shoot and kill a young woman standing on her back porch. She was wearing white mittens, and the defense was that they looked like a deer's tail. The trial was in Maine. He was acquitted. The correct sequence sems to be:
1. See white.
2. Shoot.
3. What house?

It's hard to fathom that the boys could not tell the differnce between a Bear and a human being dressed in cloathing of any sort. My heart and prayers go out to the family.

While doing the PCT in the area by the north end of the Anza Berrego Desert State Park I was alone and heard a significant amount of gun shots. When I saw the trailers out in the middle of nowhere all I could think about was the movie "Deliverance" - I start hiking faster, looked around for Burt Reynolds to save me!

Someone should ask the Grandfather that dropped them off what he was thinking - why not drop them off at the local police station at least those guys can defend themselves.

Was he literally a poacher (hunting illegally) or was he a plinker (someone just randomly shooting just to shoot)? What animals are they trying to poach? Big Horn? Deer? Bear?

I agree with you. I've seen a lot of empty shell casings near trails. Completely irresponsible. I'm extremely happy to hear of confiscations of weapons in such instances. Thank God for game wardens. Too bad we're so strapped for cash right now. We really need more in order to protect the Big Horns.

DamOTclese wrote:

Hikin_Jim wrote:Was he literally a poacher (hunting illegally) or was he a plinker (someone just randomly shooting just to shoot)? What animals are they trying to poach? Big Horn? Deer? Bear?

The guy was definately hunting, dressed in full camo and face paint. Since the area is closed we don't get plinkers up there since it's a 9 mile hike from where Caltrans has the road closed and only about 100 feet of that is down hill from the gate closure.

Deer hunters don't typically go all camo (unless they're bow hunters) for fear of getting shot by another hunter. Someone in all camo with a rifle really does sound like a poacher. Interesting that he would start shooting, telegraphing his presence. Maybe he thought no one would be in the area since it's a closed area. I gotta say, you got cojones grandes for talking to the guy.

DamOTclese wrote:

Hikin_Jim wrote:I've seen a lot of empty shell casings near trails. Completely irresponsible.

The people who plink usually shoot from the highway, often at night, and constitute a real safety hazard. Isn't it annoying? Having expended shell casings on hiking trails means that plinkers or hunters don't give a damn about the health and safety of others. A lot of hard work goes in to making hiking trails safe and along comes some asshat with a rifle, handgun, or shotgun, immediately nullifying safety for a half mile radius. Annoying.

Annoying?? More like enraging. I realize that they're probably just ignorant. "Hikers? You mean there are like people out in all this brush I shoot into?" I seriously think that hiking is something so alien to them that they think the ANF is this vast unpeopled space. "What's the harm in popping off a few rounds out into the empty hills?" I hope that's it. Probably some of them just haven't got a clue and didn't even think before they opened up. Shooting of this nature really pisses me off (if you haven't figured that out already ). I have even less sympathy for poachers, and were I in charge, poachers of endangered or threatened species would not be very pleased with me. Being made a public example of is far too underused in our society methinks. [OK, rant off. Sorry. :)]

DamOTclese wrote:One of our trail repair volunteers bucking up a downed tree across Pinyon Ridge last Saturday was wearing a heavy shaggy brown coat because it was raining pretty well and cold at 6,000 feet. When he realized he was dressed like a bear, he removed the coat and carried it. }:-} Better to be wet and cold than dead with some asshat's 006 in his back.

Honestly, in my opinion, in the vicinity of high population areas (e.g. the ANF), hunting needs to be phased out. I'm sure when the deer zones were set up in the 1930's or whenever it made sense, but with today's population, it's time to phase hunting in the ANF out. I'm not against hunting per se, but it doesn't make sense in an area with literally millions of people. Sounds like I need to write my state senator and assemblyman...

Uh... that raping animals thing is a tad off. I don't hunt often anymore, but I've not heard of that. I've heard of people having sex with their cars, though. Odd folks out there.

That's all I had to add. Carry on!

How can it be rape if the animal is dead? That's not rape, that's interspecies necrophilia.

There ya go.

DamOTclese wrote:
The mindset really is irresponsible, from my perspective. They're up there trying to kill something because it gives them pleasure.

Another baseless theory from a vegan who knows nothing of what hunters contribute to wildlife funding, and all of the refrigerators filled during Deer season.

I've read reports of hunters raping the animal after they've killed it, and while that's extreme and rare, some inkling of the mindset involved seems to be carried through the minds of all recreational hunters -- at least those I've talked with on those occasions when they;ve been moving from place to place.

In New York, incidentally, a hunter was videotaped raping a deer he had killed, taped by a hiker who gave the video to the police. The hunter was identified through the license he had purchased and was given a financial fine.

So one incident of a sicko having sex with a dead deer correlates into all hunters being necrophiliacs. Nice stereotype, based on a bullshit theory.

Hikin_Jim wrote:Honestly, in my opinion, in the vicinity of high population areas (e.g. the ANF), hunting needs to be phased out. I'm sure when the deer zones were set up in the 1930's or whenever it made sense, but with today's population, it's time to phase hunting in the ANF out. I'm not against hunting per se, but it doesn't make sense in an area with literally millions of people. Sounds like I need to write my state senator and assemblyman...

They already have designated No Shooting Zones to address Forest service land adjacent to urban areas.

How many humans do we have around ANF now? 23 million? Any day of the year when hunters are up there in the canyons there are regular citizens within a mile. Hunters havew to walk off in to the mountains a real long way to get away from other people and even then it's not a sure thing.

Rifle Deer season is only open for one month per year. You act like there are scoped "killers" in the mountain all year long.

It does seem to me that hunting should be obsolete in the ANF. There are far too many humans and we can always count on at least one getting shot every year.

1 in 23 million isn't very bad odds at all.

I will posit that many more people are killed and injured in/by cars and hiking than in/by hunting in the ANF.
Should we ban all cars and hiking because of that?

I think we all agree - no.

Responsible hunters contribute quite a lot to the ANF and wildlife.
Do you?

There are maps available of where the discharge of weapons is allowed in LA and SB Counties. Unfortunately, the agencies responsible have not updated them in ~15 years. Most of the ANF is open, except the most developed areas. The ANF is closed to any plinking except in designated ranges.

Deer hunting in the ANF is open for about a month for rifle and an additional month for archery. The powers that be for the ANF really like to close the forest during these time periods to do their own little bit to ban hunting.

Bear season is open for about three months, quail is open for about 4.
Coyote is open all year long.

So, you could encounter a hunter just about any time, though the fall deer season would be most prevalent.

Poachers are despised by all responsible hunters, even those doing it just for food - try food stamps or hunters vs hunger.

Hunters find and report many of the plantations found in the forest.

If you see a poacher, I wouldn't advise confronting them; remember they are already a criminal and armed. Call 888-DFG CALTIP (888 334-2258) It's in my cell phone, yours?

As far as the raping stuff, that's just really far fetched loonyism right there.

Also, remember that interfering with a lawful hunter in CA is a crime. So, if you're against hunting that's one thing - don't go getting yourself in trouble because of it.

DamOTclese wrote:I think you're right about that. It does seem to be a different mindset among hunters.

It's like "east is east and west is west, and never the twain shall meet." It's interesting. I've gotten hunter catalogs (apparently retailers figure if you buy hiking stuff you'll buy hunting stuff too). It's like it's own separate world. You'd think there would be a lot of cross over with things like Gore Tex, Fleece, and boots and stuff, but there's like two whole separate industries catering to the two groups and there's not that much cross over.

DamOTclese wrote:I've read reports of hunters raping the animal after they've killed it, and while that's extreme and rare, some inkling of the mindset involved seems to be carried through the minds of all recreational hunters

No offense intended, but I think you're a little over the top there.

DamOTclese wrote:Around 2:00 a.m. -- pitched dark, no Moon -- someone started shooting into the hills and bullets were impacting the hillside to my left. As the asshat started walking up the highway from the gate closure his bullets walked further and further down the hillside until a bullet impacted the tarp that I was on.

Day-am!

DamOTclese wrote:We are told not to yell or scream or call out to let the person know we are up there because so many are drunk or stoned that calling out is more dangerous, it locates you and grants a target instead of just random shooting.

Boy, how's that for a "damned if you do and damned if you don't?" Who recommended stay silent? FS? PD? I would want to make noise. I don't think most people would deliberately want to shoot someone. Of course if you do get the one freak that does, then you're really screwed if you make noise.

DamOTclese wrote:Any day of the year when hunters are up there in the canyons there are regular citizens within a mile. People park up on Angeles Crest Highway and hike down Little Jimmy or Mt. Islip or Windy Gap, and hunters who walk North in to the mountains are easilly within rifle distance of such hikers, probably without knowing it.

That's the thing that alarms me the most. With the "east is east and west is west" divide, the hunters don't necessarily know that there are hikers, canyoneers, mountaineers, climbers, XC adventurers, etc. out there and in unpredictable places. You can't just assume everyone will be on the main travelled trails -- if the hunters were even that aware of the hiking "world."

DamOTclese wrote:It does seem to me that hunting should be obsolete in the ANF. There are far too many humans and we can always count on at least one getting shot every year.

Do you have any links about accidental hunter shootings of non-hunters in the local mountains. Scared as I am of accdental shootings, I haven't seen a lot of local reports of accidental shootings.

I want to point out a fact that I read about often in the hunting forums, hunters are pissed off by the whack-jobs in the woods during season just as much as non-hunters are. Coincidentaly, the majority of problems are created by "non-English" speaking hunters that have zero ethics, shoot illegal rifles, and generaly make asses out of themselves.

You can read about it here "Scary D13

The main reason many hunters hike into the most remote areas is to get away from the dangerous folk shooting up the roadside animals.

I didn't read all of that "scary D13" thread, but it is indeed scary. Thanks for bringing that perspective though; it's the idiots out there that cause problems. It's unfair to blame hunters as a class when a small percentage are the problem.

The really alarming thing are those who are shooting at anything that moves and poaching. Banning hunting wouldn't do anything to those who aren't hunting legally in the first place.

Unfortunately, we're kind of stymied on this unless they start spending more on game wardens, which isn't likely with the current budget situation.

Hikin_Jim wrote: Banning hunting wouldn't do anything to those who aren't hunting legally in the first place.

BINGO. Criminals don't follow laws to begin with. We don't need anymore laws; we need more enforcement.

Hunters are just as passionate about the outdoors as 'we' are. And I would know because I am an avid hunter and frequent hiker, climber, backpacker. So enough with the hunter bashing.

DamOTclese- I wish you think twice before you post next time. Your threads and posts are frequently gross exaggerations filled with incorrect stereotypes. Please make sure posts are both constructive and relevant to our hiking community. Thanks.