EISPIRATEN

Ice House Canyon and Chantry Flats.

Granted it's been a good long while since I've last hit these trails [go ahead, throw me into a yucca or huck pine cones at me ]...... and maybe I should emphasize the parking lots when speaking of crowded...

But according to TRs here - it sounds like if you don't get there REALLY early, you aint gonna find a parking spot.

Is this situation any sign of a burgeoning new 'Hiking Era' ???

Any chance much of this crowding has to do with social media ----- or as we used to call it, the internet ???

I just remember plenty of times after partying too hard the night before, we'd roll into Chantry Flats or Ice House Canyon lots and find parking as late as 10am or so...

Any ideas or comments on these overflowing parking lots ??

outwhere wrote: ↑But according to TRs here - it sounds like if you don't get there REALLY early, you aint gonna find a parking spot.

Any ideas or comments on these overflowing parking lots ??

According to some old-timers I know, we are in a new hiking era. But, in my opinion, it's not just hiking. It's the era of adventure sports: extreme hiking, trail running, mountain biking, etc. There are so many trail running and biking races nowadays. Several TV programs showcase adventure races or wilderness survival. Mountain biking has been an Olympic event since 1996. There are even shows devoted simply to hiking, like Motion on the Live Well Network.

People are taking mountain adventure sports to the extreme now and making them popular through example and promotion.

The Internet has little to do with it, other than providing an easier means to communicate about such adventure sport activity. At the root I believe it has something to do with more and more people wanting to escape the city for their exercise and recreation.

Also, Chantry and Icehouse might be overwhelmed because forest fires have made several other local trails inaccessible or unattractive.

I blame Korea.

I think maybe old fashioned population growth in our metropolis, too.

I blame the Pittsburgh Pirates and Major League Baseball...


Seriously, both areas are close, easily accessible, and have beautiful scenery. Eaton Canyon Falls and Fish Canyon Falls (on Saturdays they provide shuttle service) are two more overcrowded areas.

I try to stick to off peak days in those areas.

Taco wrote: ↑I blame Korea.

There are big contingents of Korean and Chinese hikers, and they start very early. But I just spent the weekend helping out at Adams' Pack Station at Chantry Flat and I saw as many or more young people of all walks (all hikes?) of life. Many of them appear to be on a date (so that is only two people per car).

It seems there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur to start a shuttle business.

outwhere wrote: ↑Is this situation any sign of a burgeoning new 'Hiking Era' ???

Any chance much of this crowding has to do with social media ----- or as we used to call it, the internet ???

Yes and Yes

As others have stated good old population growth too. Along with diminishing space to do the hiking thing

At least in part is the continuing closures from the station fire of many popular areas

Sean wrote: ↑It's the era of adventure sports: extreme hiking

I hope that's what they call the stuff that you do, Sean --- cause if there's anything more extreme than some of your hikes, well, what would they call that ?

Interesting info and answers...nice clip tekewin

A new hiking era ehh? Wow, that's good to hear [unless you are looking for parking spots]. At least people are getting out and enjoying such a beautiful range of mountains - meaning 'range' in all senses of the word.

I just remember many hikes [well into the late 1990s, early 2000s] where we asked each other, where is everybody, sometimes it was, where is anybody?

One thing I never remember seeing is a Korean Taco... ooops, I meant, 'seeing a Korean, Taco.'

Seriously though, it's been interesting to read the occasional comments over the years here, at just how many Koreans are using the Ice House Canyon trails... Ice House is so friggin' beautiful to me, I still can't believe it's not Southern California's super-mini Sierra Nevada vibe - or is/well it

And yes, mattmaxxon, the station fire closure, that's gonna pack things tighter aint it... just like that pesky overpopulation thing

Thanks again for the info...

The new circumstances dispel the assertion by John Robinson that a hiking era in the San Gabriels, front country hiking in particular, can be dissolved by roads like the Angeles Crest Highway. The roads are still there and front country hiking was on the rise before the Station Fire.

Perhaps we need to raise the price of your adventure into the forest to fund a study on whether we need to raise the price of your adventure into the forest?

There was a recent article linked to by Backpacker about how with the crowds has come an increase in grafiitti as well. In National Parks like Arches, it noted more instances of tagging. I suggested posting signs, "You spray a rock face. We pepper spray your face."

I arrived at Icehouse a couple weekends ago to gike to Timber at 8:00 and the place was a zoo! Same thing last weekend at Manker Flats headed for Telegrapgh. Looking at Baldy through the binos the peak looked like standing room only. Our hike on the other hand was nothing like that. At least there are places to go that people aren't as familiar with and can avoid the major thoroughfares.

The upside is winter hiking. Hiking in the ice and snow is the best time to avoid the crowds. People must be afraid of the cold or something.

Perhaps we need to raise the price of your adventure into the forest to fund a study on whether we need to raise the price of your adventure into the forest?

Geez PG, don't give 'em any freakin' idears.

I also believe the economy has a big effect.

Korean Americans have magazines about the socal mountains, in Korean.

My Koreatown mechanic had a magazine out in his office with Strawberry Peak on the cover. Are there any magazines in English with Strawberry peak on the cover?!

Regardless, while there might be overall increase in hiking, I think the internet has amplified certain popular trailheads, and the masses tend to congregate and follow what is "popular". Which is definitely IHC, Manker, Chantry, and Heaton Flat (for Bridge to Nowhere).

Luckily the backcountry along the ACH is still quite sparse.

mrnizegy wrote: ↑The upside is winter hiking. Hiking in the ice and snow is the best time to avoid the crowds. People must be afraid of the cold or something.

I don't know. I've seen some woefully prepared winter hikers in IHC (think church clothes and a bottle of water). I've also seen some overly prepared (Oly Mons boots, anyone?).

Yeah, once a trail ends up on like yelp, it's dead to me.

But I wonder if you are not experiencing what I call "the seasonal variation". For reasons I will never fully understand, when it starts to get impossibly hot outside people think that's the best time to try to climb a mountain. The summers are always busier then the rest of the year.

I also generally notice a big influx of hikers in early January. I call this "the resolution crowd" and they soon thin out. But people are on vacation too, in early January around Christmas and in the summer.

But places like Chantry I only hike out of on weekdays. And early. I'm usually the first one there. Hint, Koreans seem to start hiking around 7am. They start early, but not that early.

Btw, why does the Chantry gate not open till 6am? The sun comes up at 5:40. I find this mildly annoying.

And don't forget a lot of folks only do the "#1"/highest/most grueling routes. Mt. Baldy is the highest in the SG Mtns, so its going to get significant traffic.

Talked to 2 younger hipster doofus guys at work that hike for some of the following reasons...

-Exercise
-Love the gear (GPS, heart monitors)
-Cheaper than the gym
-Cheaper than other activities like golf or other organized "sports"
-Like to get away from things to clear their minds (always have headphones in their ears)
-To enjoy the mountains and wilderness wasn't a specific reason they gave but they do like the mountains. Wasn't the primary reason by far though.
-do it after work to avoid sitting in traffic (mostly hikes in Verdugos and Griffith Park)
-they generally do not make the effort to get to the trails more than a short drive from where they live (all front range stuff, nothing off the ACH or rarely even to Baldy or IHC).

Can't vouch for the consistency in the logic but what the hell, it offers some incite.

For years I have marveled that a metropolis of 8 million+ souls was just at the bottom of the mountain

Very few people for the local population let alone actual out of town tourists

DukeJH wrote: ↑

mrnizegy wrote: ↑The upside is winter hiking. Hiking in the ice and snow is the best time to avoid the crowds. People must be afraid of the cold or something.

I don't know. I've seen some woefully prepared winter hikers in IHC (think church clothes and a bottle of water). I've also seen some overly prepared (Oly Mons boots, anyone?).

I've definitely passed by a few of those at IHC. Less than church clothes even. A few college kids were wearing shorts, T-shirts and low top converse, in the afternoon when the temps started dipping back down. Putting off their Logic Course for another semester I guess. In San Jacinto seems like they tend stay close to the tram and off the trails.

But overall, numbers are definitely lower in winter.

Yeah, you should how messed up Garcia Trail has become in Glendora. Mounds of dog poop and plastic water bottles everywhere.

I gently chewed out a Dad and his kids for cutting trail. That fell on deaf ears. (or maybe because I didn't say it Spanish??)

(BTW, I am half-Mexican so don't anyone get their undies in a bunch because I said that.)

Hike gently, my friends...

Mike P wrote: ↑Mounds of dog poop and plastic water bottles everywhere.

FWIW having hauled out 100's of cubic yards of every kind of trash imaginable, with many many 5gal buckets full of broken bottles over 40 years

I feel the concerned citizen cleaning it up is the most effective way to teach others what they are doing is wrong.

I like to do it when these people are there. Anyone who asks I tell them "I doing this because it is the right thing to do. This is unsightly and we have to take care of our land"

As to how to educate pet owners their animal waste is not only unsightly and reeks it is unsanitary. How to educate without getting into a confrontation is a mystery to me.

Most if not all these people wouldn't do this at home or in their neighborhood. Why do they feel it is OK here?

The "Broken windows" policing theory has traction here with me. Trash begets trash. Graffiti begets graffiti

The phenomenon I find a bit curious is the surge you see on the trails on holidays. Independence Day or Memorial Day or Labor Day rolls around and suddenly folks that wouldn't go into the hills any other day of the year decide to hit the trails. More folks enjoying the outdoors of course is a good thing in many respects, but the pull of the mountains on July 4 but not on June 29 is a mystery to me.

Anyone who asks I tell them "I doing this because it is the right thing to do. This is unsightly and we have to take care of our land"

You're a little more diplomatic about it matt than I am.

Uncle Rico wrote: ↑You're a little more diplomatic about it matt than I am.

"You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"

If you yell at them they'll think you are some nut an A-hole or both

I truly understand the compulsion to lecture etc... "Zen and the art of trash pickup"

Ca not say I haven't lost my cool, thrown up my hands in frustration but I keep coming back.

mattmaxon wrote: ↑

Mike P wrote: ↑Mounds of dog poop and plastic water bottles everywhere.

As to how to educate pet owners their animal waste is not only unsightly and reeks it is unsanitary. How to educate without getting into a confrontation is a mystery to me.

Animal waste is the worst offense as disease can be spread to local wildlife. An example of this problem is the recent decline in gray fox numbers due to canine distemper virus.

A lot of folks aren't born with an environmental ethic, I suppose...

Uncle Rico wrote: ↑The phenomenon I find a bit curious is the surge you see on the trails on holidays. Independence Day or Memorial Day or Labor Day rolls around and suddenly folks that wouldn't go into the hills any other day of the year decide to hit the trails. More folks enjoying the outdoors of course is a good thing in many respects, but the pull of the mountains on July 4 but not on June 29 is a mystery to me.

Someone recently asked me what I was doing for the 4th of July (they were planning a big hike) and my reply was "staying in my house". It's just not even worth venturing out on those days it's such a nightmare out there. I'll hike on June 29th instead

too many people was the number one reason i began trail-running, back when i lived in Palm Springs when ide hike out in the desert, ide pass slower people but could still hear and see them, so ide run a bit until things were quiet again and i was alone,,,,,another group to pass, ide run again. Seriously , thats exactly how i started running. it was for no other reason, not health, not weight loss, not to race, but simply to escape humanity. now, even in Yosemite, once i run just 2 or 3 miles from a trail-head, im pretty much alone for the rest of the day.

mattmaxon wrote: ↑Most if not all these people wouldn't do this at home or in their neighborhood. Why do they feel it is OK here?

Why wouldn't they do it at home or in their neighborhood? For years I have been cleaning up other people's litter and dog poop in front of my house near the sidewalk. Most likely people who act irresponsibly in the mountains do not magically transform into responsible people in the city where they live.

It is my belief that irresponsibility is a widespread symptom of the countless self-negating religions and philosophies taught in schools and churches throughout the world. If you are taught to loathe and despise yourself, why would you want to take responsibility for anything you do? And furthermore, if you are taught that your life is a product of fate or the will of a higher power, then how could you even consider taking responsibility for your own behavior? After all, you're not in control.

I believe the problem is more prevalent among the youth. They have not learned to marginalize their self-negating belief system in favor of a more worldly and self-interested approach to living. Once they begin thinking about themselves and their own future more, they begin to realize the importance of self-responsibility, and they develop self-esteem from behaviors such as cleaning up their own garbage instead of leaving it behind for someone else to deal with.

outwhere wrote: ↑ Is this situation any sign of a burgeoning new 'Hiking Era' ???


Any ideas or comments on these overflowing parking lots ??

It's not just here so I'd vote for the new era. I've seen it in Phoenix, say 10 years ago you could drive up and park in the tiny lot at Camelback. Now you're at least a mile from the trailhead, and the same for Squaw Peak across the valley.
Definitely more people at Ice House, either get there before 7 or after 12 if you want to be in the lot.
In my last TR I counted 37 people on the Mt Baldy summit one Saturday.