EISPIRATEN

Found this on youtube and was wondering what you guys think of it. It seems in line with I read in "Freedom of the hills".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM3xLshmNnk

Opinions?

The advice in the video is sound. Only raise your feet if you are wearing crampons. If you are not wearing crampons, dig your toes in. If you are wearing crampons, raise your feet to avoid catching a point and cartwheeling.

Practice, practice, practice on a safe slope with a safe runout. For instance, you wouldn't want to practice on the slope just north of Baldy summit, because a failed self-arrest could result in a 2000-foot slide/tumble.

I think self-arrest is one of the most important skills in winter mountaineering (aside from more obvious skills like routefinding and proper dress).

I learned to self-arrest by reading (and re-reading and re-reading) the relevant section in "Freedom of the Hills" and then practicing and practicing and practicing. I've arrested many a slip with this technique.

Good luck!

Sam Page wrote: ↑The advice in the video is sound. Only raise your feet if you are wearing crampons. If you are not wearing crampons, dig your toes in. If you are wearing crampons, raise your feet to avoid catching a point and cartwheeling.

Practice, practice, practice on a safe slope with a safe runout. For instance, you wouldn't want to practice on the slope just north of Baldy summit, because a failed self-arrest could result in a 2000-foot slide/tumble.

I think self-arrest is one of the most important skills in winter mountaineering (aside from more obvious skills like routefinding and proper dress).

I learned to self-arrest by reading (and re-reading and re-reading) the relevant section in "Freedom of the Hills" and then practicing and practicing and practicing. I've arrested many a slip with this technique.

Good luck!

Thanks, Sam! I will heed your advice.

I had family expected to visit this w-e but their plans did not pan out. Instead, I am heading out to Gorgonio on Sunday.

I plan to take South Fork to Dollar Lake saddle and spend a couple of hours practicing in that area. I hope I can find a safe, slush-free spot...(will have crampons and helmet).

When there is snow at the Vivian Creek trailhead in Forest Falls, there are some great practice slopes on the south side of the road in the vicinity of the parking area.

One thing I still haven't decided on is the axe-sling -- attach it to yourself (i.e. hip-belt/pack) or not? PRO: it can help in self-belay situation; CON: the axe can swing wildly if you loose it while sliding down the slope causing serious injury, but then again if sliding you loose the axe, what's next? Choices, choices ...

Yeah, that's a long debated topic. I've usually got mine attached to my harness or something.

mve wrote: ↑One thing I still haven't decided on is the axe-sling -- attach it to yourself (i.e. hip-belt/pack) or not? PRO: it can help in self-belay situation; CON: the axe can swing wildly if you loose it while sliding down the slope causing serious injury, but then again if sliding you loose the axe, what's next? Choices, choices ...

You need to start a thread about that at Summitpost or SuperTaco!



Unless doing glacier travel, I always attach the ice axe to my belt loop.

PRO: you won't drop it and lose it. That seems to me to be a pretty big risk that is worth mitigating.

During glacier travel, I have it attached reliably to my harness.

PRO: can be used as an anchor to belay a rope partner.

The main CON of attaching the ice axe to you, that it might swing around and hit you if you fall, seems weak to me: if I am falling, and I don't have control of my ice axe for self-arrest, I have far bigger worries than whether the damned thing will hit me on my way down.

When I started I had the ice axe attached to my wrist. Terrible idea, as it makes changing direction (and hence switching hands) a real pain. Attach it to a belt loop; unless you are roped up, when you should attach it to your harness.

BTW, and back on topic: https://eispiraten.com/viewtopic.php?t=3276

I am also leaning towards having the ice axe rigged securely to me. Last season I kept my axe attached to my pack's hip belt, problem was that when I wanted to drop my pack down I had to un-clip the sling -- so I didn't like that setup, besides pack's hip belt is not all that secure anyway.

This season I was planning to modify alpine bod harness by cutting off the leg loops and using it as a simple belt which I'd put right over my outer layer, then I'd attach the axe to it via a sling/biner -- more secure and stays there while I take my pack off.

If I were roped-in I'd just use the harness tie-in point to being with, but so far on Baldy we never roped-in so I felt using a full harness would be an overkill for the axe attachment, but perhaps it's a valid option -- might as well train with the right gear instead of messing around with it.

Yeah, there are lots of stories of tethered ice axes attacking their owners as they careen down slopes. But since I sometimes drop mine, especially when wearing mitts, I like a leash.

Lately I've been clipping a sling on the axe to my sternum strap. My reason is that while I want a second chance to grab the axe if I drop it or it gets knocked out of my hands in a hard fall, I also want it to break away should things get really ugly, and I figure the sternum buckle will pop should that happen. So far, so good and I don't have the hassle of changing directions with a wrist leash. Of course, if you're going be relying on the axe as a belay, such as when there is crevasse danger, you're gonna want it bomber-leashed to your harness.

Dave, I saw that attachment you describe (to the sternum strap) last season and I am also considering it, but I am not sure it would break away easily unless manually un-clipped. I am always surprised how strong these little buckles are. Maybe we should propose these tests to Myth Busters ...

mve wrote: ↑I am also leaning towards having the ice axe rigged securely to me. Last season I kept my axe attached to my pack's hip belt, problem was that when I wanted to drop my pack down I had to un-clip the sling -- so I didn't like that setup, besides pack's hip belt is not all that secure anyway.

This season I was planning to modify alpine bod harness by cutting off the leg loops and using it as a simple belt which I'd put right over my outer layer, then I'd attach the axe to it via a sling/biner -- more secure and stays there while I take my pack off.

If I were roped-in I'd just use the harness tie-in point to being with, but so far on Baldy we never roped-in so I felt using a full harness would be an overkill for the axe attachment, but perhaps it's a valid option -- might as well train with the right gear instead of messing around with it.

Check out riggers belts..might be just what you're looking for.

I actually have one and kind of hate it -- it weighs 10oz and is really stiff. Good gun belt though ...

i attach my axe by a webbing leash i made to my sternum strap with an open gate 'biner. i highly recommend making a leash that you can attach like this. don't waste your $$ on a wrist leash. you will go crazy changing a wrist leash every time you change direction, plus it can also be dangerous. another idea... there is a Baldy regular named Bruno who made a chest harness out of webbing and attaches his axe leash to that and not directly to his pack.

norma r wrote: ↑i attach my axe by a webbing leash i made to my sternum strap with an open gate 'biner. i highly recommend making a leash that you can attach like this. don't waste your $$ on a wrist leash. you will go crazy changing a wrist leash every time you change direction, plus it can also be dangerous. another idea... there is a Baldy regular named Bruno who made a chest harness out of webbing and attaches his axe leash to that and not directly to his pack.

This n00b needs clarification...

What's wrong with simply holding in your hand as you walk on the ice (no leash) and stowing it in your bag when you don't need it???

Norma, last year I also made my own leash using a 1 inch tubular NYLON webbing -- it worked great with exception of one issue -- it soaked up a lot of water and was getting considerably heavier. This season I want to use a BD's Dynex runner with a few overhand knots.

[/quote]This n00b needs clarification...

What's wrong with simply holding in your hand as you walk on the ice (no leash) and stowing it in your bag when you don't need it???[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with that. Plenty of people do it. Just don't drop it.

kristo, it'd be a bad scenario to loose your axe on a steep slope thus some prefer to leash it ... Another reason is for self-belay purposes -- say you are on a steep continuous slope and want to take a picture -- if your axe is attached to you via a secure leash you can drive the axe deep into the slope and have a security of an axe-belay:



here's how I had it tethered last season: (to the biner to the hip belt):


but for this season I am thinking of making it more secure by modifying an alpine bod harness (removing the leg loops) and then putting the belt of the harness over my outer layer.

snow is slippery and it's not uncommon to loose your balance a bit or slip and fall. the axe can fall out (or begin to fall out) of your hand when this happens. a falling axe on a steep slope is as dangerous as a falling rock. plus, without your axe you are left in an unsafe situation. having the leash can keep the axe close enough to regrip it again quickly without loosing it to the slope. also, sometimes when you jam your axe into ice it will stick and when you pull to remove it, your hand (usually gloved) can start to slip off the head. again, the security of the leash can keep you from loosing your axe. there are a million different scenarios and these are a couple that quickly come to mind. i'm no expert but i used an axe for a season without a leash and much prefer having one.

norma r wrote: ↑snow is slippery and it's not uncommon to loose your balance a bit or slip and fall. the axe can fall out (or begin to fall out) of your hand when this happens. a falling axe on a steep slope is as dangerous as a falling rock. plus, without your axe you are left in an unsafe situation. having the leash can keep the axe close enough to regrip it again quickly without loosing it to the slope. also, sometimes when you jam your axe into ice with will stick and when you pull to remove it, your hand (usually gloved) can start to slip off the head. again, the security of the leash can keep you from loosing your axe. there are a million different scenarios and these are a couple that quickly come to mind. i'm no expert but i used an axe for a season without a leash and much prefer having one.

All of this makes sense. I have an Alloy Nut Belt from Mountain hardwear I think would be perfect to make a leash. With an old wiregate carabiner to my belt, it should work like a charm.

Unless I'm roped in, I use a wrist leash for my axe. I make the leash just long enough that I can switch hands without removing the leash from the wrist. It doesn't have to very long at all. Since I'm right-handed, the leash is on the left wrist (gets in the way less often).

As others have pointed out, having a good grip on the axe is paramount, before the arrest and after. If you are wearing slippery gloves, like most liner gloves, your hand can slip right off after the arrest from the force of stopping. I use epoxy to make the axe handle "rougher" for better grip.

Don't like using mittens when using an axe since they don't allow proper grip of the axe head while on the move, which can lead to loss of control of the axe if you slip. If you can find them, 3-fingered gloves (thumb, index, last 3 fingers) allow the proper grip and are almost as warm as mittens.

Self-arrest is really easy -- here's how

On the subject of ice axe leashes, I tried out Grivel's "Single Spring" yesterday and liked it a lot. It connects to to your harness or hip belt with a sewn loop and is short enough to not interfere, but stretches out when necessary. I actually dropped my axe while glissading (hit a block of ice with my foot and somersaulted) and was able to retrieve it and self-arrest without the axe attacking me. 8)

Nice! I actually have the dual version of this leash for the ice tools (aka "umbilical cord"). Good stuff.