EISPIRATEN

i came across this site a while back
and it has some interesting things to share
ever since i read thsi when im on trail
i stay on my toes a lil more and every now and then
ill come across a spot mentioned where someone has passed on
and it makes everything a lil more real

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/deaths.html

sobering

I can't believe this death, I hiked to Sunset a month ago, it is only a couple miles to the summit via the firebreak. Must have been "really good" buddies to not help him down the mountain or at least go back up to get him...

"3/6/00. Rosindo Segura of Montclair died probably from exposure as the result of alcohol consumption after hiking from Cow Canyon Saddle to Sunset Peak. He and his two companions were drinking tequila and Segura was wearing only a light jacket, a T-shirt, jeans and tennis shoes. According to Deputy David Smail, coordinator of the San Dimas Mountain Rescue Team, "It started to get very cold. They started walking back. He had problems walking, said he couldn't walk any longer," he said.

Instead of having one person stay with Segura, his companions abandoned him on the trail, and waited an hour for him at their car. Further, instead of going back for Segura, they drove up to Mount Baldy Village and asked for help. The San Dimas Mountain Rescue Team and the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department's search and rescue team found Segura, but he later died. (PSN 3/11/00)"

In reaching for a positive angle on the tequila drinking death story, I am struck by the fact that none of his buddies used either a sword or a baseball bat on the victim.

http://outside.away.com/magazine/0797/9707dark.html

my uncle and i hiked the devils canyon trail one cold
thanksgiving a few years back.we got down to the river
and there was this guy who had his lil tent set up
he was sitting down sharpening a knife just staring
i said hello like i always do and he did not respond
my uncle came by a few minutes later and said hello
once again there was no response just a cold stare
it was very very unnerving since this was the first person
i ever met with such a bad attitude.
i had read somewhere that some satanists had sacraficed
a human being and the cops found a torso on a rock and
a pentagram made out of rocks.thinking about that and being in
th epresence of mr not so friendly made me reach for the glock
that rock would have made a good spot for a sacraifice
my mind was running wild and it was best we left quick

i always seem to run into some wird people in the mounatins

Given the weird stories thae one hears when people start sharing their experiences, it is amazing that there aren't more sobering incidents. Something to be thankful for.

By the way, I edited this post because the old one no longer made any sense in context. To the moderators, I say "keep up the good work!"

Keep it clean folks...

Driving on Hwy 39 before dawn was certainly interesting. Driving past a police checkpoint at the bottom of San Gabriel canyon.....theres no question you are on your own after that....I thought I would be alone, but no, someone in a big hurry leaned on my bumper to get off the road. I caught up later with the SUV, which was someone dressed in camo, I thought maybe he was a fisherman, but when he pulled out a huge rifle, I was thinking "S.O.B!", I was so surprised. I pulled into the East Fork parking lot and thought for a few mintues about the safety of parking a car there, but there were already almost 10 cars there, with no windows smashed out. Of course this year, someone was simply murdered in their tent near that same lot.

As far as drugs, we did come across a operation that simply astounded me in a rugged area. No one was in sight , maybe out of season....well if they show next season the surprise will be on them.

Travis, HJ et al-
The memorial here is from the Sunset Ridge where Rosindo Segura of Montclair died. Does anyone know if the memorial is still there?

Here is another memorial photo. This photo is from a 2003 trip to Devore Trail Camp. This sign was high up in a tree, at the base of which was found the body of this young man. His dog was standing guard over the body and wouldn't let rescuers near. According to an LA Times story he passed away from a diabetic coma. Our scout troop has visited this site twice and use at as a lesson in being prepared, giving other people one's itinerary and using the buddy system.
BTW, the only part of the memorial left as of June 07 was the upright portion of the crucifix immediately beneath the sign.

AlanK wrote:In reaching for a positive angle on the tequila drinking death story, I am struck by the fact that none of his buddies used either a sword or a baseball bat on the victim.

"struck," Alan? Nice pun.

It's a pretty big stretch to put a positive spin on this one. Probably ignorance and alcohol were to blame for a needless death. Maybe alcohol is a good gene pool cleanser? Except that they tend to take a lot of good folks down with them.

friendowl wrote:my uncle and i hiked the devils canyon trail one cold
thanksgiving ...

For whatever reason, there are a lot of beer drinking types down there. My friend and I were there last Sat/Sun. Beer cans in a lot of places; yuck.

We had the place to ourselves; so no problems, but when the weather warms up again in the Spring/Summer, I wonder. The trail camp might not be the greatest place to stay although it is physically the best site to camp ... or bring your Glock.

Personally, if I have to carry a weapon, I'm camping somewhere else.

friendowl wrote:http://outside.away.com/magazine/0797/9707dark.html

Very interesting article, although there are quite a number of inaccuracies. Rather scary. I typically feel safe beyond the "yahoo zone" which extends to about 4 or 5 miles from the nearest trail head. Once I get away from the trail heads, things are still pretty good out there.

The Marijuana "farmers," now that's a separate matter. I like XC travel, but with gun toting criminals ...

Maybe I'd better carry that Glock after all.

Sheesh, we can call down air strikes in Iraq, how about a few right here in the ANF? Or something. We gotta get those MJ "farmers" out of the back country.

AW wrote:... someone dressed in camo, I thought maybe he was a fisherman, but when he pulled out a huge rifle, I was thinking "S.O.B!", I was so surprised...

I hope he was a deer hunter, but I've seen 7.62 AK-47 rounds on the ground near Buckhorn. An AK-47 isn't exactly a deer rifle. Amazing that some people think that the ANF is there private tactical training ground. Others still seem to feel free to use the forest as a sort of shooting range.

Yipes, maybe I really will carry a Glock. I've never had a problem, and I avoid areas with heavy grafitti, but it's still pretty scary.

HJ

AK's in 7.62x39 make great hog rifles. The round itself is also about the Soviet equivelant of a .30-30 Winchester round, which has been used for many many decades to take deer, and works fine on local Mule Deer. People are just thrown off by media portrayal (usually, not saying for you sir), and the fact that a typcail 30rd magazine isn't necessary for deer, where you might need a quick follow up shot, but not 29 of them.

8)

Alot of those cases are probably from idiots with SKS's. Run-in's at night aren't cool. (Folks shooting off R39 at night)

Yes, a 7.62 mm AK round is about .30 caliber. I think it's .308 if I remember correctly. I guess you could mount a scope on it and use it as a deer rifle, but (especially with a 30 rd. magazine!) it isn't exactly what I picture a serious deer hunter with. I'm just guessing, but I think that someone out with an AK series rifle is probably just shooting, particularly when I see the Chinese made AK rounds (copper instead of brass casings) which typically have a steel core (armor piercing).

Every time I find expended rounds, it scares the crap out of me. I rather suspect that the shooters aren't aware of where the trails and xc routes are, particularly after seeing where the empty casings are located. I once found a bunch of .22 casings right above the PCT. To them it looks like a trackless wilderness. Why not fire off a few rounds just for kicks? To a hiker, such shooting is something akin to firing into a residential area (but honest officer, I didn't see anyone).

100% agreed. Typically you find single or two .30-06 or something, most likely from deer hunters. Other times, with other cases, I think it's just city folks who havea rifle and wanna shoot it, and don't care that there are probably folks around hiking that they cannot see. Much like people rolling rocks down steep slopes.

(you are right, most 7.62x39 bullets are .308, but some bores may be up to .311! Chinese manufacturing at it's finest...)

Hope I didnt imply that the guy was a SOB. I was just surprised to see someone pull out a rifle. The only other experience with guns was someone shooting out of the Pine Mountain area/Redbox Rincon Rd. Whatever they were shooting at, if anything.....anyway that was an easy decision to just turn around...Ive done that miserable hike 4 times since then and everything has been normal...once you get near the top, it has some excellent views.

Heres another link for Highway 39:
http://www.slumdance.com/blogs/brian_fl ... 02456.html

dramatic excerpt: "But the trash and graffiti are not even the worst part of the experience. Back when I used to fish the San Gabriel, I kept my bear spray ready to access in my jacket pocket at all times -- but not because I was worried about the bears. I've never seen a California black bear, not even on San Gabriel tributary Bear Creek.

But I've seen plenty of gangbangers on the SGR. I've had them walk directly toward me, hands inside their waistbands, elbows out, communicating that universal signal -- "I've got a gun." I've watched them throw beer bottles at the rocks for fun for more than an hour straight. I've been stalked by their pit bulls. On more trips than not, I have had an unsettling experience of some kind with the gangbangers who have laid claim to the San Gabriel. "

....I do admit fear of car breakins though. Especially on the West SG even though it seems someone is checking for parking permits every hour...but the last couple times I have pulled in, I have seen at least one smashed window not cleared yet......nothing like the Big Tujunga....park at your own risk should be signs.

Anyways, enough of this negativity...heres a view from Redbox/Rincon...
view of Twin Peaks in the background on the right, with background left being what I call canyon X ridge. West Fork SG river in the foreground going up and towards the left, Bear Creek going up and towards the center before a sharp right.

That blog post is spot-on. Daipers, beer bottles, condoms, trash, everything. Really sad. If I was ever able to run for some sort of office, it would be a #1 priority to clean it up and somehow try to keep it as clean as possible.

AW wrote:...nothing like the Big Tujunga...

Is Tujunga better or worse?

I would guess that car break-ins are greater in Tujunga than Azusa. ....I would say upper big Tujunga is much safer though. The trouble seems to start at downstream of Colby Ranch. Theres less graffiti, but its never been cleaned so every rock has some graffiti all the way down into the Narrows. Speaking of the Narrows, a lot of car windows broken there.

It brings up this question of should high impact spots be left alone? In the case of the West Fork, it has maintenance, but what does that accomplish? In the summer, the river stops flowing and that 1/2 a mile of high impact to me is toxic. If you did an bacterial study on the portion where people hang out, I would be surprised to find it not closed and within range of being healthy.

Now in the case of Fall Creek in the Tujunga, that place was junked up and never maintained. Finally no one wanted to go to such a place. It was quietly cleaned up and the place sees some trash, but nothing like before. Now the camping area is scheduled to be removed due to lack of user activity!

Of course if the SG river is not maintained in apperance sake, then if people stop coming, then the ANF gets less $$$ which brings up another set of questions.

Really?

I live in TJ, so I'm over there quite frequently to hike Trail Canyon, Mt. Lukens, and sometimes Fox/Condor. Never had a problem, but have definitely seen the trash and crap. A lot of the time, I'm on the trail by first light, and sometimes back early PM, so that may keep me out of a lot of the mess.

I've always felt pretty OK in Trail canyon which you have to drive on a dirt road to get to and there are cabins in the canyon.

Speaking of Mt. Lukens, there's an alternate route from the South called the sister Elsie Trail. It's got some good gain, and the mileage is similar to the Stone Canyon Trail, but I bet it's not quite as good of a work out as Stone Canyon is. However, the benefit is that I haven't seen all the problems mentioned for Big T occuring at the top of Haines Canyon Ave (where the Sister Elsie trailhead is). It is brushy, and there is PO. I've started clearing the trail some, but I won't have it cleared for a while due to time constraints.

Regarding Fall Creek, is that now worthwhile? I had always heard "stay away from there," and I've never been.

I've always liked the Stone Canyon Trail. The parking lot has had more and more trash in the 6 years I've been using it, but it's not too bad. For whatever reason, I tend to do that hike in the middle of the day, so I've met some interesting characters hanging out around the creek. As soon as I head up the hill, I see only reasonably serious hikers.

I have hiked and biked the Haines Canyon fire road, but it seems endless when hiking. There is a trail that takes off from it just after the dams that is a lot more fun.

I have learned to appreciate the trails from Deukmejian Park. I usually do a loop, up the Crescenta View Trail and down the Rim of the Valley Trail. It does involve a significant stretch on the Haines Canyon fire doad.

The ride from the fire station on Rte. 2 is always fun.

AlanK wrote:I have hiked and biked the Haines Canyon fire road, but it seems endless when hiking.

The fire road does seem endless. That's why I'm so happy to have discovered the Sister Elsie Trail which cuts off a lot of the drudgery. The Sister Elsie Trail has two branches . After you pass all the flood control "dams" (debris barriers?), the trail continues up the canyon as the road does a U turn and heads South, up the East wall of the canyon, and out of Haines Canyon. The trail is just past the point where the road crosses the creek bed.

You go up a ways, cross the first crossing (wet), cross the second crossing (dry), and come to a signed fork (home made trail sign). The East fork heads basically NNE, is well constructed, and joins the fire road (2N76) quite a ways up towards Lukens. The West Fork heads basically NNW, is quite overgrown, and joins the Stone Canyon Trail where the Stone Canyon Trial reaches the West ridge coming down from the summit of Lukens. This junction is also signed (home made trail sign). It makes an interesting loop to go up the West fork, summit Lukens, and return on the East fork. One can also cut off some of the "endless" fire road as one descends by cutting some of the switch backs. There are use trails that show that others have done it.

Food for thought anyway.

I forgot that there were two forks to that trail -- also that it was called the Sister Elsie Trail. I have seen the east fork but always blown right by it because I like the route that ends up o nthe top part of the Stone Canyon Trail. I have taken Haines Canyon all the way down -- boring. I'll try that east fork next time.

The Big Tujunga sees most of the trouble at certain spots like Stonevale/Vogel Flats, Fox/Condor trailhead, Fall Creek trailhead@ BT road, Pipe canyon. I think a lot of people would have trouble finding trail canyon as its off the main road. Other areas can be safe..my guess is miscreants dont know that hiking is even possible in certain areas. It also depends on the season...winter will see little crime. Summer? Im not going.

In answer to Fall Creek@BTR road, most people take an upside-down short hike to the Big Tujunga river. Compared to trail canyon? Hard to compare. I would say if you like Trail canyon you wont complain about Fall Creek @ Big Tujung road. The hike can be extended by finding the fireroad going back up the other side of the canyon. Stay left at the junction of Fall Creek camp to really start getting some distance, a worthy goal is to make it to view the Great Falls of the Fox.

"Great Falls of the Fox?" I'll have to check it out just because of the name alone!

to the GFF viewpoint is 8 miles RT FYI...elevation gain is 1600 total. I would wait until Mar or Apr so the falls actually have some water...and they are not next to the trail so a pair of binoculars are a plus...still a nice place to grab a bite and return.

Heres a map marked at the viewpoint(person would look to the west to see the falls)....

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34. ... ayer=DRG25

Cool. I love finding out new info about stuff in my own back yard.

So the only time I've hiked the Fall Creek Trail was from near Hidden Spgs. I take it that the dirt road from BTR to the CG is fairly easy to find? I'm sure I've driven by it a thousand times.

HJ

Can be confusing for sure in the San Gabriels with so many names thrown around.

The hike you went on is actually the Fall Creek Camp trail which connects Fall Creek Camp to Hidden Springs. Fall Creek fireroad , well Im not sure of the real name of this fireroad as it goes from the Big Tujunga road all the way north out of sight and out of mind to Hwy2AF, Mill Creek area. But basically the fireroad goes northish-southish, while your trail was west-east, and the 2 trails connect just west of Fall Creek camp. The fireroad starts out east then goes west on the other side of the canyon back to the same elevation, just across canyon of the parking spot. Then it heads north. You can see some of this from the parking spot.

The parking on Big Tujunga road is 1/2 mile west of Angeles Forest Hwy, marked by a white gate on the canyon(north) side of the road, with no sign. My notes are that it is mile marker 8.75 on BT road, which should be close to where it is....

If anyone is going on the fireroad to the other side of the canyon, they should know the fireroad is completely washed out at the bottom of the canyon, aka Big Tujunga river. Where the other side starts is not in plain sight and yards upstream rockhopping is where it should appear back again. In times of a wet year, this river can be out of control . For those who are ubersafe, after a recent rain is not for them as rockfall occurs, the fireroad is not for the general public, that kind of thing. I never know what to say.....its a nice look at a canyoneering area...whereever you look, yeah, its probably been travelled.

Thats all Im going to chime in with.