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Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:03 am
by kristo5747
Disclaimer: this is gonna sound weird but I'd hate to be a moron about this. I need your opinion.
/================/
When I am out hiking and eat a banana/orange/apple, I take the detritus (i.e. peel or core) and put it in a ziploc bag. Once I am home, the ziploc bag goes in the trash.
But what about...well, um, when you have to, you know, go number two? I always bury my waste but am I supposed to bury the used TP or ziploc it too??
Any advice? Yes, Taco, go ahead and make fun.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:46 am
by Hikin_Jim
lol. This is actually a debate that some people take very seriously.
Personally, I always just bury the TP with my #2 about 6" down. I'm pretty good about digging a decent sized hole.
The purists say that your TP won't degrade, and that you should pack out or burn your TP. Some hard core LNT types will pack a lighter in their poop kit so they can burn their TP. I'm not convinced that TP won't degrade, but above tree line they may have a point.
Some ultra light, ultra LNT'ers advocate that you shouldn't use TP at all...
(and seriously I'm not joking, just visit backpackinglight.com some time)
HJ
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:38 am
by kristo5747
Hikin_Jim wrote:....
Some ultra light, ultra LNT'ers advocate that you shouldn't use TP at all...
HJ
No TP at all? And use what instead? Treebark?
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:48 am
by Sam Page
kristo5747 wrote:No TP at all? And use what instead? Treebark?
Smooth rocks. Just make sure they are smooth. That's what we used on a week long Outward Bound trip.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:58 am
by kristo5747
Sam Page wrote:kristo5747 wrote:No TP at all? And use what instead? Treebark?
Smooth rocks. Just make sure they are smooth. That's what we used on a week long Outward Bound trip.
Dang. You are really serious, are you?
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:20 am
by Ze Hiker
twigs, rocks, and pieces of yucca if i'm feeling lucky
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:31 am
by AlanK
kristo5747 wrote:Hikin_Jim wrote:No TP at all? And use what instead? Treebark?
These guys are kidding you. Carry a supply of corncobs.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:42 am
by kristo5747
AlanK wrote:kristo5747 wrote:Hikin_Jim wrote:No TP at all? And use what instead? Treebark?
These guys are kidding you. Carry a supply of corncobs.
Lol.....ouch.
Ok, can any of you be serious for a sec and, like HJ, provide some advice? Bury it all or not?
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:20 pm
by lilbitmo
Here's some really good articles (and discussions on other boards) about the subject - this should make it easier for you to choose based on where you are in the wilderness, different conditions should dictate your choice as HJ suggested, some areas do not get enough "water/moister" to facilitate the decomp process - it's a very "crappy subject" (
) but one we all need to think about when nature calls
http://hikethru.com/hiking-information/ ... omposition
http://www.blm.gov/education/lnt/background/dispose.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... ad_id=7247
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:32 pm
by EManBevHills
The obvious answer is not to go while in the woods. Wait 'till you get home -- or at least to McPlumbing.
Then, after you flush, you won't even have to think about it!
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:56 pm
by Taco
I'm so hardcore, I recycle my crap.
But seriously, I go with what Jim said. I don't pack it out unless there's a team of sniffer dogs chasing me.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:48 pm
by Hikin_Jim
kristo5747 wrote:Ok, can any of you be serious for a sec and, like HJ, provide some advice? Bury it all or not?
Here's the actual BPL article that I was thinking of:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... _free.html
It's a little tougher in the chaparral covered mountains of S Cal than in the Rockies where I believe most of the BPL staff spend their time.
The one question I've always had though: Isn't it, um,
un- environmental to rip up grass or tear the leaves off a bush? If these practices were widely adopted, wouldn't that
cause environmental damage, particularly above tree line or in arid areas?
HJ
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:52 pm
by Mike P
HJ, you may be able to dig a deep enough hole but it seems that some of our hiking colleagues can not.
It is frustrating to come across used TP in the woods. My vote is to pack it out. It is very easy to do... just take a spare baggie with you when you do the deed.
Bottom line: Please pack out used TP
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:06 pm
by PackerGreg
I always enter the mountains prepared, and that includes a small roll of toilet paper. But the greener members of our population don't think about it. That's why the old-timers refer to toilet paper as "mountain money". When someone is in need, you can trade it for just about anything.
I was never concerned about the biodegradability of TP, but if it makes you feel better you can use a marine grade toilet paper like they use on boats. It's not as comfy as supermarket TP, but it decomposes quickly.
If you do not want to pack out the used paper, NEVER BURN IT! There was a fire that started at the confluence of the East and West Forks of the San Gabriel River (was it the Bridge Fire?) that was caused by burning toilet paper. Someone recreating with a church group tried to do the right thing and lit the TP on fire, then a wind picked up and took it into the grass and chaparral.
Of course, you should do us all a favor and dig your hole well away from the trail. Just make sure that cougarmagic doesn't get you on video
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:22 pm
by Dave G
EManBevHills wrote:The obvious answer is not to go while in the woods. Wait 'till you get home -- or at least to McPlumbing.
Then, after you flush, you won't even have to think about it!
I have friends that start dosing imodium a couple days before a trip--seals 'em up tighter than a drum. Except for the gas. The normal high altitude flatulence seems to worsen with this strategy.
When I was a boy back in Scotland, my Da used to put the previous year's Sears catalog in the outhouse. We could always tell when spring was coming because we'd be getting into the bridal section.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:42 pm
by EManBevHills
Pre Playboy?
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:16 pm
by HikeUp
LMFAO!
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:37 am
by robnokshus
There is an excellent book on this topic, appropriately titled: "How To Shit In The Woods" by Kathleen Meyer. I will still practice the burning method, which is mentioned in the book, if I am in a relatively safe environment and then make sure there are no embers with my "fire hose." (Hey, I'm not the first one to call it that)
If you ever hike the main Mount Whitney trail you will not only have to pack out your used TP but your excrement as well! Once you've experienced the joy of using and then carrying a full WAG bag to the top of the highest peak in the lower 48 you will definately make a point to eat plenty of cheese the night before!
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:47 am
by Hikin_Jim
Mike P wrote:HJ, you may be able to dig a deep enough hole but it seems that some of our hiking colleagues can not... My vote is to pack it out.
Well, Mike, I doubt the people too lazy to bury their TP are going to pack it out. The only people who would pack it out would be the ones who weren't causing a problem in the first place.
The real solution is to avoid TP! The trick to avoiding TP is of course identifying the correct species for your wiping needs.
HJ
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:13 pm
by Taco
That is my favorite kind of Oak for wiping. Kinda hurts to sit for awhile after, dunno why.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:16 pm
by Sam Page
Is it possible to leave nothing behind? Even if you annihilate all of the matter in your wake, there would still be empty space, which is certainly something.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:27 pm
by Taco
How very Zen of you, Sam.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:30 pm
by Ze Hiker
god damn philosophers!
if one's definition of "nature" is all that isn't man-made, then our mere presence in nature would tarnish it...we'll always leave something but its a matter of what level we feel comfortable in accepting.
i draw the line at allowing Taco into nature with his weird shoes
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:34 pm
by Taco
Better than Ze and his tight gay stripper shorts.
Re: Leave *nothing* behind
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:22 pm
by Dave G
My father was a very religious man. Wiping one's ass with the Playmate of the Month would have been considered sacrilege.
We were fortunate that Sears turned out to be a successful company. As our family grew, so did the size of the catalog.