EISPIRATEN

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:49 pm**

Thought some of you might be interested in getting together with ODC to practice self arrest/crampon skills. There have been a few posts of people expressing interest. This is a good opportunity. If you are not an ODC member, you can join for free and only have to pay after your 4th trip.

Dear Club Members:

The following event has been planned in your area from 2/23/2008 to 2/23/2008

Region : California
Location : LOS ANGELES County, CA
Event title : Snow safety practice from Manker Flat
Level : Intermediate
Number of spots : 6
Event Coordinator name : Justin Johnsen
Email : justin.johnsen@gmail.com
Description :
I HAVE VERY LITTLE WINTER HIKING EXPERIENCE. This will be only my third outing with snow gear.

I need more practice in self-arrest under controlled conditions, and safe off-trail snow travel. Rather than do this alone again, I'm inviting others to practice beginning snow safety skills with me. I wasn't sure whether to post this as a clinic, hiking or mountaineering event; it will be a little of each.

WHAT IT IS: Practice in self-arrest in a controlled environment, and cross-country travel over elevation with crampons and ice axe. A workshop by and for snow newbs.

WHY? To make our snow safety techniques a habit through practice, and have some seasonal fun.

WHERE: Meet at Manker Flat, the same trailhead you would use to go up the Ski Hut/Baldy Bowl trail to Mount Baldy. If the snow is right, we'll practice self-arrest in all 4 orientations right there at Manker Flat. If not, we may have to hike up to the Ski Hut or other higher elevation spot to find it. The Ski Hut trail to Mount Baldy, or Big Butch Wash to Thunder Mountain are both candidate routes for snow travel.

CLIMB/DISTANCE: Be ready for up to 3,000' to 4,000' of snow climbing at about 1,000' per mile -- rather slower and tougher than hiking Mt Baldy or Thunder Mountain in the dry season. This day is about the journey and not the destination.

WHEN: 7:45 am sharp for introductions. Target will be 8 hours practice and travel.

NECESSARY GEAR: General mountaineering ice axe and leash, full 12 point crampons (not just insteps), mountaineering helmet, snow-ready clothes (they'll take a beating), pack with snacks/lunch and the usual "ten essentials".

SUGGESTED READING: Freedom of the Hills, sections on ice axe, crampon and helmet selection and use, snow travel, winter clothing selection.

BROWNIE POINTS: If you are (or find and bring) a more experienced snow traveler with the patience to instruct others, I'll buy you lunch or a beer as you prefer.

QUESTIONS? Post on the forum for this event, or email me directly through my ODC profile. I'll be glad to provide my phone number too.

CAVEAT: A big part of winter safety is reading the conditions ahead of time. Predications of significant snowfall WILL cancel. Icy road conditions requiring chains may also cancel. We probably won't know for sure 'til very close to the day. If conditions are bad, with either too much or too little snow, we'll reschedule.

Click here to sign up for this event
Or
You can signup for this event by accessing the following link :
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/Calendar/Tr ... ipID=16030

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:01 pm**

Sounds cool. Lotsa folks sure have been expressing interest. Guess more folks are getting into mountaineering this year, sicne we have a real winter now.

Posted: **Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:15 pm**

If anyone participates in this please DO NOT PRACTICE SELF ARRESTS WHILE WEARING CRAMPONS. Wearing crampons during self arrest practices will ensure certain carnage and limb twisting---this has been proven by many unfortunates. Same warning for sitting glissades -take your crampons off before starting. Also, it is a good idea to have a spike protector on your axe while practicing self arrests to avoid putting a hole in your thigh(or worse your femoral artery).

I've seen a number injuries caused by improper use of snow and ice tools and mostly on Mount Baldy. Maybe there is some sort of vortex of mental incapacitation going on there

Jim

Posted: **Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:01 am**

Might I say, that one should first learn to self arrest without crampons, but one must learn to arrest WITH them on as well, as chances are you'll be wearing them while sliding.

Also learn to self arrest with poles, gloved/bare hands (learned that the hard way), etc etc. use any tools at your disposal to assist. Prepare for all situations.

8)

Posted: **Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:51 am**

That's Affirmative Taco....

Practicing self arrest with "feet up" in the final prone position gained from any 'falling position" (like head-downhill-on back) is very beneficial during training sessions. It is amazing how much more stress is placed on arm/shoulder muscles when arrresting with no 'toe digging' (toes used on soft snow surfaces only!) when wearing crampons. Yep, learned the hard way.....

Doug F.
(Hedgehog)

Posted: **Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:16 am**

Good addition, falling face-first, rightside up and upside down.

Got sore joints?

Posted: **Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:52 am**

Yes, sore joints for sure! - and turn your face away from that adze when you are "feet up" and leaning into that pick for every ounce of stopping pressure on hard snow/ice (axe jump can produce nice little "smiley faces" on the cheek bones! - not that I would know from personal experience, errrrr.....)

Doug F.

Posted: **Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:44 pm**

Hey all,

I put this trip together on the ODC calendar, and was planning to post it here as well, but someone saved me the time, awesome. Anyone from these boards are welcome, if you want to come but don't want to sign up on ODC, just drop me a line.

I moved the day to Sunday March 2nd to accommodate another interested party.

I'm taking notes on this whole discussion to use as a script for practice. Beyond the techniques outlined in the Mountaineers, y'all are sharing some helpful experiences, ideas and pointers.

Last time I did this practice solo, I found that different snow conditions change the "feel" or even the success of an arrest more than I expected. If the stuff is too deep or too icy, it's hard to stop a fall even in a simple foot-first, face-down position. So more practice is called for.

EISPIRATEN

02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat

02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat

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Re: 02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat

Re: 02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat

Re: 02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat

Re: 02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat

Re: 02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat

Re: 02/23/2008 Snow safety practice from Manker Flat