EISPIRATEN

Buckhorn should have opened April 1st or as soon as the snow was sufficiently gone. There is no snow and it is May 2nd, yet it's still closed - what gives?

FAIL!

I had plans to hike out of Buckhorn Campground on the Burkhart Trail - possibly going up to Pallett and/or Goodykoontz. On the drive up I felt terrible and was debating whether to hike or not. So when I found out that the gates into Buckhorn were closed, that was enough to call off the hike (I guess I was just looking for an excuse to call it quits ). Although I could have parked near the gate and hiked down to the trail head, I just bailed and did some sightseeing and a short hike near Mt. Wilson instead.

that sucks.

i'm sorry but but anf employees are fail. maybe it's because they are understaffed, underpaid, underfunded, whatever, but I've gotten so many incorrect statements from them, it drives me crazy. and altercations with rangers. I don't even think about calling them unless its for info i can't possible get anywhere else.

thank god for this forum.

btw, did you happen to get any glimpses of the north side of twin peaks? wondering how much snow is left, thinking about going up tomorrow.

Zé wrote:btw, did you happen to get any glimpses of the north side of twin peaks? wondering how much snow is left, thinking about going up tomorrow.

I didn't get any good looks at Twin Peaks - it was in the clouds. Check cougarmagic's recent TR. I bet not much has changed since then - last night's storm didn't add any snow. Got some good looks at the east ridge of Twin though from the Jarvi Vista viewing area (just west of Islip Saddle)...

I was up on Pallett on 04-25 and the conditions on Twin looked the way Cougar's report described. Still snow up on the north side at higher elevations.

If you can wait, I'll be going out there Thursday or Friday and can take another look.

Zé wrote: anf employees are fail. maybe it's because they are understaffed, underpaid, underfunded, whatever, but I've gotten so many incorrect statements from them, it drives me crazy.

I agree 100% with this statement. They never know anything, they don't know when roads or campgrounds are going to reopen. They give inaccurate dates on things such as the Rincon Shortcut road which has been closed to vehicles for 2 years now, they said it was supposed to reopen last June, and still hasnt. The funny part is when you ask them about it they say it hasnt even been closed a year yet. Also theyve had a "temporary" closure in the Little rock creek area since 1999 to protect an endangered toad. http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/news/19 ... tter.shtml. I fully understand protecting an endangered specie, but isn't there something else that can be done insted of just keeping an area closed forever..... NOW THAT IS FAIL!!!!!

Got a Scout hike planned this Saturday to Cooper Canyon. If anyone has new info on Buckhorn Campground opening, please post up. I'll try calling the USFS and see if I can get something definitive

I was in the campground on April 22, and there were still a few large snowdrifts on the back road. Overall, it was a rather cool spring until this last week or so. It takes a while for that snow to melt in there...much longer than you'd think for an elevation of around 6,500 ft.

It's not as simple as just opening a gate of a campground after winter. Water system must be turned on, and often repaired (that thing busts a pipe somewhere every spring even when the water is turned on, and trying to find it is usually a bitch).

Anyone that knows Buckhorn, knows it's one of the most heavily forested areas on the Angeles. Trees/branches come down in there every winter and must be removed, cut up, cleared away from campsite, restroom buildings, etc.

Sometimes other work of infrastructure must be done (repair any damage on the old restroom buildings, signs, sweep/clean roads, etc)..

So, with that being said and taken into consideration. I do agree it should usually be open in most years earlier than it actually is. But that's another story for another time. Just remember to take the these other factual things into consideration.

The person you can call that generally makes the decision to open this campground is Gerry Reponen. He's the Asst. Recreation Officer on the Los Angeles District. 818-899-1900 x228.

MtnMan wrote:So, with that being said and taken into consideration. I do agree it should usually be open in most years earlier than it actually is. But that's another story for another time. Just remember to take the these other factual things into consideration.

The person you can call that generally makes the decision to open this campground is Gerry Reponen. He's the Asst. Recreation Officer on the Los Angeles District. 818-899-1900 x228.

Facts are good!

Thanks for shedding some light on the situation.

brian90620 wrote:

Zé wrote: anf employees are fail. maybe it's because they are understaffed, underpaid, underfunded, whatever, but I've gotten so many incorrect statements from them, it drives me crazy.

I agree 100% with this statement. They never know anything, they don't know when roads or campgrounds are going to reopen. They give inaccurate dates on things such as the Rincon Shortcut road which has been closed to vehicles for 2 years now, they said it was supposed to reopen last June, and still hasnt. The funny part is when you ask them about it they say it hasn't even been closed a year yet. Also theyve had a "temporary" closure in the Little rock creek area since 1999 to protect an endangered toad. http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/news/19 ... tter.shtml. I fully understand protecting an endangered specie, but isn't there something else that can be done insted of just keeping an area closed forever..... NOW THAT IS FAIL!!!!!

FYI- Fish and Wildlife Service (Federal, not State) largely dictates endangered species closures and evaluations, and the USFS (and other agencies where and endangered species is found on their jurisdiction) basically have to adjust, and follow some often very strict "rules".

One big reason closures are often listed as "temporary", is so that they can re-evaluate every few years and make adjustments to a closure/restricted access area.

Example: Cabin Flat area, which used to be closed entirely to vehicle traffic from Guffy to Lupine Campground, is now open again to Lupine for vehicles, and walk-in to Cabin Flat (no longer an official campground). This was after a re-evaulative study determined that vehicle/human traffic was not significantly impacting the area of protected species around Lupine, but vehicle traffic and concentrated human use (but not dispersed use) was still a concern at Cabin Flat.

Williamson Rock area is another example. They are considering making a new stretch of the PCT to bypass the creek area where the main concern is for that closure. That in turn may shrink the area of the closure in the future. Also, If you remember correctly, that closure at first was including Hwy 2, and it was closed at Cedar Springs, just west of Eagles Roost... all the way to Islip, until further evaluation determined vehicle use on the highway above did not significantly impact the froggies 1000 ft down in the creek below.


Call the Angeles USFS Biologist and get some more information. They'd be happy to educate you on what is sometimes a confusing area of information to the public. 626-574-1613 and/or 661-296-9710 (push 0 and ask the operator for the forest/district biologist).

Unfortunately, I agree to some extent, that there are some very uneducated and misinformed employees working on the Angeles. However, there are also some great ones. The key is to find the right people to ask the right questions, but I understand that's not always clear on who that may be.

Someone cleaning bathrooms doesn't always know the details and/or make the decisions on many of the things that are of public concern. It's a shame, as they are the ones most of us come in contact with when we're out playing, (and they SHOULD be kept more informed) but don't always assume it's directly their fault. Some of the "higher ups" often have no clue how to (or don't want to) communicate alot of pertinent information to their employees. They sometimes don't even know themselves. I know, it's frustrating sometimes.

FYI.
Buckhorn is NOT run by the ANF. Its run by a private organization. Why its not open is up to them NOT the Forest Service.
If you want highway 411, call Cal-Trans NOT the Forest Service.

To many of you complain about this that and the other thing but if you would call the right agency you'd get the right answer. You're quick to blame the Forest Service but fail to look in the crap you are standing in.

If you want to hike to Burkhart Saddle, its not all that much farther from the highway. If you're willing to do such a long hike, an extra mile shouldn't be all that.
Dam!! I've never seen so many whiners in my life.

rawr

From the Angeles National Forest site...

Buckhorn

6,300'

Closed for the winter November 15 through March 31, snow permitting opening on that date or as soon as possible thereafter.

38 Sites

Be Aware of Bear Activity. When open, provides piped water. Vault toilets. Campground fee is charged. 2 vehicles maximum per campsite. Parking 2nd vehicle is included in campsite fee. Sites are first-come, first-served, no reservations. Location: From Interstate 210 in the city of La Canada, exit at Angeles Crest Highway (Hwy 2) and drive northeast for 36 miles to the signed campground on the left. The Burkhart Trail begins here and leads into the back country. Call (818) 899-1900 for current conditions and additional information.

No mention of it being privately owned and it gives a Forest Service number to call for status.

Now that I know it is privately owned (thanks for that tidbit of knowledge!), I'll search for the politically correct number to call for campground status.

And by the way, I'll decide whether the extra mileage is "all that" or not.

Woof.

Boy, that's some of the worst information I've ever seen. Buckhorn is not privately owned, or even concessionaire operated. The Forest Service has 100% control over it.

And Cal-Trans having control over a campground?? That's a first! Cal-Trans only has jurisdiction over Hwy 2, that's it.

Jeebus...this topic is FAIL!

HikeUp wrote:Jeebus...this topic is FAIL!

Oh? It's improved that much?

This campground is owned by the moon police.

The campground is not run by the Forest Service.
If you think it is, once it opens go see who's collecting your $$$$

Dude, it's owned by the Moon Police. We've already settled this. Where ya been?

LOL.

FAIL minus.

Richard N. wrote:The campground is not run by the Forest Service.
If you think it is, once it opens go see who's collecting your $$$$

I know who's collecting the money.. he's one of my friends, and he works for the Forest Service, and has been for 4 years.

I don't know what your agenda is for spreading false information, but I do know that you're completely wrong.

I always liked the Buckhorn area... because of this thread, ran into this 'historical' info.... would love to see some pics of these Guard Stations:

http://tchester.org/sgm/places/buckhorn ... ation.html

Even getting to the bottom of Cooper Canyon falls was somewhat of a trick for us amateurs... but it was pretty down there!

worst thread ever

Zé wrote:worst thread ever

Stop your whining!!!

outwhere wrote:I always liked the Buckhorn area... because of this thread, ran into this 'historical' info.... would love to see some pics of these Guard Stations:

http://tchester.org/sgm/places/buckhorn ... ation.html

Even getting to the bottom of Cooper Canyon falls was somewhat of a trick for us amateurs... but it was pretty down there!

Ooooh. LPG lighting. Hand cranked fuel pump. High tech!

Hikin_Jim wrote:

outwhere wrote:I always liked the Buckhorn area... because of this thread, ran into this 'historical' info.... would love to see some pics of these Guard Stations:

http://tchester.org/sgm/places/buckhorn ... ation.html

Even getting to the bottom of Cooper Canyon falls was somewhat of a trick for us amateurs... but it was pretty down there!

Ooooh. LPG lighting. Hand cranked fuel pump. High tech!

Big pimpin'.

Gerry Reponen, same guy that I mentioned earlier regarding the operations of Buckhorn campground, lived at the old guard station for a several years, until it burned down. He has some awesome pictures of the old residence/guard station. If you give him a call and go into the office, he might take the time to show you some of them.

btw, the old residence and guard station are gone, but the paved driveway and flat are still there. It's across the street from the Waterman trailhead as you head behind the restroom.

outwhere wrote:I always liked the Buckhorn area... because of this thread, ran into this 'historical' info.... would love to see some pics of these Guard Stations:

http://tchester.org/sgm/places/buckhorn ... ation.html

Even getting to the bottom of Cooper Canyon falls was somewhat of a trick for us amateurs... but it was pretty down there!

FYI- Buckhorn Campground opened on Tuesday of this past week. (12th)

I was up there last night! Nice and lots of solitude