EISPIRATEN

Do a search for Newcombs or Rim Trail...I vaguely remember a fairly recent discussion about these trails.

The trail is closed, so no one on this law abiding-board has been on it recently.

I do miss it.

Thanks for the tip / found the thread .... Looks like the trail may be a bit sketchy,

Good to know you have not gone to the dark side, Alan!

HikeUp wrote: ↑Good to know you have not gone to the dark side, Alan!

You mean by not bringing up past controversies involving an obsessive individual accusing the good folks here of being guilty of a wide variety of what he took to be crimes?

I'll drink (coffee) to that.

HJ

Anyone unofficially ventured into the middle Arroyo (north of Gould Mesa to Switzers)? I imagine it's pretty torn up. Unofficial details?

Haven't been there in quite a while (and that's the truth!). I imagine, based on what it looks like in other streambed areas, that the sand has cleared out of the watercourse, and weedy plant growth is thick along the banks. It probably looks more like it used to pre-fire, but with less shade and no trail. I know the trail up around the dam is blown out completely.

Didn't know about the trail that climbs past the dam. Been some time sice I was through that middle section. Beautiful area.

I called the ANF office last week and I was told the gabrielino trail is completely open except at a point between Paul little picnic area and oakwild campground. I assume the closure is near the debris dam where the trail rises up and then descends along the Cliffside. Does anyone have information about why it is closed only there. A landslide could have made the trail impassable.

That is probably the case, Rudy. That section of trail has been a problem since 1942.

I wish they had the cash to remove Brown Mountain Debris Dam. It serves no purpose anymore.

Logistically it wouldn't be difficult - just run a D-9 Cat down the old Dark Canyon road to make way for an excavator and some super 10's. Mother Nature would scour it out and start replanting it right away.

They could restore the old trail from Pasadena to Oakwilde, and restore the Dark Canyon Access road to Oakwilde Campground in order to rebuild/maintain it.

I guess it was more important to rebuild a perfectly good Supervisor's Office.

Rudy, I thought it was closed from Paul Little, all the way up to where the trail splits off up near Switzer Falls. I can tell you for sure that the trail around the dam is messed up pretty bad, and the trail upstream from Oakwilde camp is pretty much gone, as it was just a small ledge carved out of the canyon wall anyway - many sections washed away completely, and the rest of it buried in a slope of eroded dirt.

Passable - yes, but you'll be walking in the creekbed, not on a trail.

If it is actually fixed up between Switzer and Oakwilde, please let me know.

PackerGreg wrote: ↑
I guess it was more important to rebuild a perfectly good Supervisor's Office.

FudgePackerGreg,

The Supervisor's office was a shithole, basically a bunch of trailers and manufactured type buildings probably built before you were even in diapers. It was falling apart.

And you can relax your sphincter, the money for the building was basically a federal grant, and did not come out of the budget for the forest.

I run the lower Arroyo to the debris dam a lot. I was there two days ago.
I poked around a bit at the trail junction to get over the dam (at Paul Little) and the trail is pretty much non-existent. The whole area has been covered by fallen rock, dirt, and vegetation.

Now you can see some of the trail WAY above on the hillside, but it looks a bit sketchy to me. Who knows what it's like up higher.

I wouldn't count on it being passable unless you're looking for ADVENTURE.

PackerGreg wrote: ↑That is probably the case, Rudy. That section of trail has been a problem since 1942.

I wish they had the cash to remove Brown Mountain Debris Dam. It serves no purpose anymore.

Logistically it wouldn't be difficult - just run a D-9 Cat down the old Dark Canyon road to make way for an excavator and some super 10's. Mother Nature would scour it out and start replanting it right away.

They could restore the old trail from Pasadena to Oakwilde, and restore the Dark Canyon Access road to Oakwilde Campground in order to rebuild/maintain it.

I guess it was more important to rebuild a perfectly good Supervisor's Office.

Does the Forest Service "own" the Brown Mountain Debris Dam or is it LADPW or someone else? I agree that it would be great to remove it. Just not sure it is up to the FS budget to pay for it.

Either way, I don't see what renovating the Supervisor's Office has nothing to do with the debris dam. I think it is important for FS employees and the public to have a healthy and safe office to work in and/or visit.

We hiked up gabrielino to Paul Little and the debris dam last Saturday. I was curious if it might still be possible to get up to Oakwilde and then Royal Gorge. At Paul Little, its a little hard to tell where the Gabrielino trail was. I mean, you see where it should go up the ridge, but its not there and you pretty much have to bushwhack. Past the dam along the creek is pretty rough too.

Has anyone made it to royal gorge recently? I heard gabrielino from Switzer is not great, and Burton trail is impassable too since the station fire.

Someone should try to get the Forest Service to fix the fire damaged Gabrielino Trial closure from Little Paul picnic area to Switzer junction. This trail is supported by the US National Trail system and should have all means to get that done. This section of trail is heavily used from JPL up to the Debris Dam where is stops because of a Dam constructed by the USFS in 1942 that block all access. I understand that the trail once passed the dam by a east side route but is now missing. The natural state of the river would benefit with the dam removed. The Station Fire really did a lot of damaged to the Arroyo river area that providing access will restore the enjoyment it once had.

Hi I've hiked from Switzers through to Gould Mesa and the CCC Ridge Road via Angeles Crest Highway down to Oakwilde recently and everything is in terrible shape. The remains of the Oakwilde campground are extremely difficult to find and now are basically an archeological dig with just the top of the bench and stove pipe visible. The trail where it splits off from the Switzers Falls area says closed but is decent for a mile or so until you get to the bottom and then it's lots of bushwhacking and boulder hopping. I agree the Dam near Paul Little picnic area needs to go. Maybe we could try and start a petition?

Thanks Herp. Did you see any wildlife? I'm interested to know how things are 'recovering' in there. Royal Gorge used to be a favorite spot to find (mammal) tracks and sign.

Hi cougarmagic I did see some suspicious tracks and poop yes but I also saw deer there. Awhile back like last year I saw a deer carcass all torn apart by something either coyotes or a cougar.

This afternoon I wanted to see if I could get to Oakwilde from JPL along the Gabrieleno Trail. I couldn't. I got stopped at the Debris Dam above Paul Little. Did I just miss the trail around the Debris Dam or has it been completely obliterated by the Station Fire and subsequent flooding? Is the only realistic by-pass up Brown Mountain Road and down Ken Burton? And if you get to Oakwilde (or maybe what is left of it), what does the trail look like above there?

You didn't miss it, it's gone.

There is no trail above the dam, and most of Oakwilde is buried in new streamed/debris flow. No more stone foundations. Its brief history in the Arroyo has been erased.

I haven't been on the Ken Burton trail, so I don't know about that.

I haven't been on Ken Burton in a few years....but from what I understand, it's essentially no more. I was going to bike it the other day, and take the gabrieleno back down to JPL. It was very rough going 5 years ago.....so I figured it would be ridiculous now.

I thought Oakwilde was okay though? Maybe I heard wrong. My understanding was that the trail from the 2 down into the Arroyo was still intact. I'm probably wrong though. Maybe wishful thinking.

Uncle Rico wrote: ↑... And if you get to Oakwilde (or maybe what is left of it), what does the trail look like above there?

You can scramble up the dam on the east side.

But the trail such as it was is no more above the dam last time I was there. It likely has not go better over the subsequent years

Above Oakwilde I cannot say but lots of people have been coming down from Switzers.

The trail to Bear Cyn Trail is open and in relatively good shape

Oakwild is under several feet of debris flows

This was 12/2010 (or so I'm told )

Thanks for the beta everyone. I guess my trip was a fool's errand. And I don't know why I assumed Ken Burton is still be there when the Gabrieleno isn't.

The section of trail from Paul Little up the canyonside and around the dam is still there and negotiable, it's just in a state of total abandonment since the closure area begins right around there. The turnoff is buried under mounds of fallen timber so it's easy to walk right past it.

The upper portion of the Ken Burton trail is walkable, the trailbed is in pretty good shape, but the chaparral is starting to swallow it up. I imagine the trail gets worse the further down it you go.

Looking down into the canyon from above, that whole area looks pretty devastated. There used to be a big debris field above the dam, but now it looks like the sand flats extend all the way up beyond Oakwilde and halfway up Dark Canyon as well. It would probably take a catastrophic event to clear some of that debris out.

The turnoff is buried under mounds of fallen timber so it's easy to walk right past it.

Well, that's exactly what I did. May have to go up for a second look.

Btw to no one in particular and everyone in general, what purpose does that Debris Dam serve anymore other than degrading the canyon above it? Or is that a third-rail subject?

Debris basins are government employment projects. Even if they were built for free by the CCC or private property owners, they still require decades of maintenance. They don't really accomplish anything but it's real easy to convince people they do. Now that most are at the end of their service lives they will provide decades more of employment opportunities. Just think of all the EIR's and bickering between subject-matter experts that will be required before the demolition can begin. Then there's the post-demolition monitoring for compliance with CEQA and the ESA. All to take a canyon that was turned into a meadow, and turn it back into a canyon.
Seriously - The one in Malibu is 100' tall. The removal cost is estimated at a million dollars a foot.
Sorry. Sometimes government employees have to get things off their chests on Monday mornings; to prepare for another week. I'll go numb and shut up in the next few minutes.

Seriously - The one in Malibu is 100' tall. The removal cost is estimated at a million dollars a foot.

The $140M to tear down Matilija is looking like a freakin' bargain. Or we can just along the dotted line.

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2013/mar/03/ ... m-removal/

Yeah, I quoted some old numbers for the Rindge because a million dollars a foot had a good ring to it. The Matilija looks like a lot bigger project. You never know. Sometimes Mother Nature has no respect for EIR's, committees, and procedures. She may make the hard decisions for us.