EISPIRATEN

There is a new website for the Crystal Lake Recreation Area. They are looking for volunteers for trail maintenance
http://www.crystallake.name/
I saw their post on http://www.summitpost.org in the Forum under California

Cool. I want to get with that volunteer trail fix group. I've seen some bad places and wanted to do something but wasn't sure if it was ok to do it. Like pack a pick and shovel and dig out some washed out areas on my own. I bet they would not let that happen. I bet it has to be supervised by a ranger.

Thanks Cy. I've been communicating with him for a while now. Good guy.

I was unaware of this site, but it is chock full of true stories.

Hiker Hell

Pretty cool site! maybe I should post the fashion model I ran into at JPL?

Oh, I thought this was going to be about New Jersey or something.

Perry from the San Jacinto board has set up http://www.LAtrails.Net

I'm not crazy about the splintering of all these SoCal message boards, and never been crazy about Perry as a moderator/administrator (he seems like a nice guy, but is prone to banning, editing and deleting to keep his boards squeaky clean; some people like a squeaky clean board, I don't).

The San Jacinto board is otherwise pretty good with lots of traffic. The San Gorgonio board sucks ass.

Mebbe Taco needs to get up off his ass and get working on an ad-free all-encompassing SoCal hiking board. Icepirates.net?

I have a lot of experience with setting up message boards and don't mind fronting the bux (it doesn't cost that much to do):

http://www.guntards.net/forum
http://www.badharvest.net
http://www.mesatactical.com/forum

Problem is there's a lot of great info on this board and I'm not sure if MyFreeForum offers any tools to back up and transfer the forum. It wouldn't really be in their interest to do so. FluxBB does have tools to convert phpBB to FluxBB (which is, in my humble opinion, the beast free board software out there).

simonov wrote:I'm not crazy about the splintering of all these SoCal message boards, and never been crazy about Perry as a moderator/administrator (he seems like a nice guy, but is prone to banning, editing and deleting to keep his boards squeaky clean; some people like a squeaky clean board, I don't).

My perception is that Perry is very supportive of free speech and has tended to wait until things are clearly out of hand before banning anyone. Taco's approach is similar. I have seen obvious abuses on both boards in the past and thought both moderators dealt with them rather well.

AlanK wrote:

simonov wrote:I'm not crazy about the splintering of all these SoCal message boards, and never been crazy about Perry as a moderator/administrator (he seems like a nice guy, but is prone to banning, editing and deleting to keep his boards squeaky clean; some people like a squeaky clean board, I don't).

My perception is that Perry is very supportive of free speech and has tended to wait until things are clearly out of hand before banning anyone. Taco's approach is similar. I have seen obvious abuses on both boards in the past and thought both moderators dealt with them rather well.

I think Taco deals with them best by not dealing with them.

simonov wrote:I'm not crazy about the splintering of all these SoCal message boards, and never been crazy about Perry as a moderator/administrator (he seems like a nice guy, but is prone to banning, editing and deleting to keep his boards squeaky clean; some people like a squeaky clean board, I don't).

I got that impression to. I actually like it. But am surprised that he allows ol Hal to post the stuff that he does. And more surprised that he asked me and not him if I knew the forum wasn't about fighting. I figure every forum is going to have it's unique ways.
I don't know who is going to participate in that forum. Seems serious hikers would go to the mountains rather than those areas. Maybe I'm unaware of some reasons but it will be fun to find out what people like.

The San Jacinto board is otherwise pretty good with lots of traffic. The San Gorgonio board sucks ass.

That one cracks me up! the guy named Ed.

simonov wrote:I think Taco deals with them best by not dealing with them.

His head explodes instead.

My head has blown up instead.

I'd like to make an actual website with tons of info, with the theoretical/spiritual/whatever CENTER of this site being the forum, as people are the center of the activity.

OK, so if we make a big-damn-all-of-SoCal-board, what should it encompass? Just mountain-related, or all sports, or also offroading (I'm not against this!), etc etc?

I'm into the complete mountain experience. Climb in the winter, drive a rally-type car on otherwise quiet fire roads in the summer, swim in the summer, yadda yadda yadda, everything while treating the mountains with respect.

Throw down some ideas folks! I just don't know how to pay for it!

TacoDelRio wrote:OK, so if we make a big-damn-all-of-SoCal-board, what should it encompass? Just mountain-related, or all sports, or also offroading (I'm not against this!), etc etc?

I'm only interested in hiking in SoCal. I'd never seek out a forum on anything else. I might read a photography or mountain bike forum if a google search for trail info led me to it, otherwise I wouldn't seek it out. If the hiking info got buried or mixed in with other stuff to the point it is of no use, then I could see where you might lose a certain demographic. So...now you know how to get rid of me!

A seperate "forum" or subforum for each activity here, much like we have a Tralrunning one, a canyoneering/technical one, etc.

I figure if we make a total forum, it should really be "the big one", a go-to site for all SoCal mountian activities.

simonov wrote:I think Taco deals with them best by not dealing with them.

Taco has had to deal with some troublemakers and he handled it well. Ditto for Perry. Both give posters a lot of leeway before taking punitive action. I would say that both have handled things well, although with different styles.

TacoDelRio wrote:A seperate "forum" or subforum for each activity here, much like we have a Tralrunning one, a canyoneering/technical one, etc.

I figure if we make a total forum, it should really be "the big one", a go-to site for all SoCal mountian activities.

Okay, I'll lay down some Forum Filosophy here and see what you folks think.

First, I think it's kind of a pain to divide forums up into lots of little subforums unless you have a SHITLOAD of traffic. It's generally easier with a forum with our traffic level to confine most of the posts to a few busy subforums.

For example, the following subforums could easily be combined into a single forum concerning hiking and climbing in the San Gabriels and I don't think it would hurt anything:

--> General Discussion
--> Climbing, Canyoneering, & Mountaineering
--> Current Conditions
--> Flora and Fauna
--> Plans and Partners
--> Trip Reports

That leaves just:

--> Gear

(probably good as a separate forum)

--> GPS and Videos

(topics could easily be handled in the main forum, since videos are basically visual trip reports and GPS tracks are also usually associated with trip reports; discussions of GPS units and camcorders are appropriate in Gear)

--> LA Urban Hiking
--> Trail Running & Mountain Biking

(good prospects for separate forums, except no one ever posts there, though I know lots of people through OCHBC for whom urban is the only sort of hiking they do)

--> Questions and Comments

(every forum ought to have a place for forum-related meta-discussions)

--> Off Topic

(this forum is often used here for trip reports and other hiking related posts about San Gorgonio or San Jacinto, since they aren't strictly "on-topic" for the San Gabriel Mountains section, which is kind of a drag sometimes because they are about hiking and climbing and not really very "off-topic").

Forums should generally splinter into subforums as they become very busy and you need a way to break out the various discussions by subject matter. But starting out with a highly Balkanized forum, before you have a lot of traffic, just makes the forum harder to use.


Perry's forum is actually kind of nice, because it's simple:

--> Mt. San Jacinto & Santa Rosa Mountains

--> California: Other Areas

--> General Chat

Only criticism I would make of that is that "California: Other Areas" sure covers a lot of ground.


So here is a wild-ass suggestion for a general SoCal forum based on my discussion above as well as some suggestions already made in this thread:

HIKING AND CLIMBING

--> San Gabriel Mountains

--> San Gorgonio and San Bernardino Mountains

--> San Jacinto and Santa Rosas

(frankly, there's probably no reason you couldn't just cover all three of these with a single subforum called "SoCal Climbing")

--> Desert Hiking

(again, this invites confusion: is Rabbit Peak "desert hiking" or is it "Santa Rosas?")

--> Urban

--> Elsewhere (Sierras, Alps, Himalayas, etc)

(could also just eliminate Desert Hiking and make Elsewhere mean "anywhere that isn't in the SoCal mountains or urban areas")

--> Gear

OTHER THAN YER FEET

--> Mountain and Road Biking

--> Off-road (cars and trucks, I guess)

--> Motorcycles

--> Fun with Chainsaws

(I would resist trying to cater to hunters and gun nuts because they have PLENTY of forums of their own on the interwebs; I can't imagine what people who are into fishing would talk about amongst themselves).

OTHER CRAP

--> Off-topic Chat

--> Questions, Comments and Suggestions


With Guntards.net I have combined a forum with a sort of blog (though I stopped updating the blog a year ago). The blog format is just another way to organize content, with the only restriction being that only certain people can actually post articles to the blog; I don't know how to open up the blog software I use (Textpattern) to a large number of semi-trustworthy individuals the way SummitPost does, and I certainly can't integrate the logins of Textpattern and the forum, which would be a minimal requirement for something where users are posting blog articles as well as participating in forums.

Another (better) idea I have been working on for another site I run is instead of a separate blog, you have a front end to the site that looks a lot like a blog, but is really just displaying selected topics from the forum; the site administrator/moderator just selects topics he thinks are particularly cool and they get posted on the main page. Then anyone who wants to comment on the post can simply join the discussion in the forum. That allows every forum member to be a potential "blogger," at the discretion of the site administrator.

Anyway, there are some ideas. I've set up forums and blogs in the past, and I would be happy to set up a new site for the San Gabriel Mountains forum (to be the Southern California Outdoors or whatever site), and can even front the initial costs, which are not that much. I just don't want to be involved in running the site.

Also, I'd hate to see the information from this site go away, and I hope there is some way to transfer the database to a new site.

I try to keep my feelings out of most things.

I was a member of a forum that was really great. Talked to and met many folks from around the world. It was a survival related forum, mostly ex-Military folks from the US, UK, and Eastern Europe.

My buddy running it got his feelings in the way, and deleted the whole thing, all the posts, everything. Really not cool. Several years of work, down the drain. I use this as an example as to why an administrative body needs to be rather open and keep their emotions out of things.

I don't really have to deal with any trolls here, as we're all mature, etc. I've only "banned" spambots who never even got to post.

I'm sure any negative emotions regarding the forum are due to folks not filling out their profiles... hint hint at the few newest members.

simonov wrote:I think Taco deals with them best by not dealing with them.

I've seen Perry ban 3 people. If Taco did it was before I came around.
Nothin bothers Taco. NOTHIN. (cept maybe people who don't drink, don't cuss, don't smoke, don't climb, don't eat crap.)

FIGHT ON wrote:

simonov wrote:I think Taco deals with them best by not dealing with them.

I've seen Perry ban 3 people. If Taco did it was before I came around.
Nothin bothers Taco. NOTHIN. (cept maybe people who don't drink, don't cuss, don't smoke, don't climb, don't eat crap.)

And people who don't do caffeine. Yeah, that really gets him. But no worries, no one here would try to pull a stunt like that, now would they??

Hikin_Jim wrote:

FIGHT ON wrote:

simonov wrote:I think Taco deals with them best by not dealing with them.

I've seen Perry ban 3 people. If Taco did it was before I came around.
Nothin bothers Taco. NOTHIN. (cept maybe people who don't drink, don't cuss, don't smoke, don't climb, don't eat crap.)

And people who don't do caffeine. Yeah, that really gets him. But no worries, no one here would try to pull a stunt like that, now would they??

oh yes, we speak in tongues when that subject arises. as it does expose ones secret vainty

simonov wrote:...never been crazy about Perry as a moderator/administrator (he seems like a nice guy, but is prone to banning, editing and deleting to keep his boards squeaky clean; some people like a squeaky clean board, I don't).

Could you provide some specific examples? If you are referring to a very fragile biological system that is close to the tram, have you seen how the tourists treat the wilderness?

As far as other things...almost anything goes, within reason. Whatever your opinion is, fine. If you swear a little, fine. People even talk about smoking pot in the mountains. And then there's Fight On who talks about the evils of caffeine. If anything, I occasionally hear mild complaints about too much freedom of speech.

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Fight On wrote:And more surprised that he asked me and not him if I knew the forum wasn't about fighting.

You think it was appropriate to say that about his 9-year-old son? Halhiker doesn't have the word "fight" in his username. Nothing was deleted.

For what it's worth, you do make the board interesting. It would be a little boring if you stopped posting.

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A board about everything fun would be fun... As far as merging, that is complicated and can involved headaches:
http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... 5#p1120893
http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... ilit=merge
If anyone browses those 25 pages, you can see it doesn't work too good. And there's the issue of converting the two phpBB2 forums to phpBB3.

An easier way is to use the link feature in phpBB3 where a category or forum title can link to a totally separate web site. So all the boards could be interlinked except, ahem, the San Gorgonio board which is stuck in the stone age. phpBB2 boards require a little editing to add links or an upgrade to phpBB3 is easier if the database is small enough to avoid server timeouts. I think this forum might be able to do it. Otherwise you have to run the converter inside a virtual php server environment on a PC.

As far as transferring, there may be some scripts that can do that, using admin access and copying everyone's email addresses. A mass email would be an easy way to notify everyone.

This person purchased a database from his free forum provider:
http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... &t=1152475

There's a lot of useful stuff here:
http://www.phpbb.com/community/
The phpBB experts are ready to answer questions...

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Fight On wrote:I've seen Perry ban 3 people.

3 people? Are you counting Janice, Crystal, and Jennifer? (same person) Now you don't seriously think that person should be given another chance? And the organic spammer can hardly be considered a person. He was posting meaningless comments about hiking, just to promote his Tenerife vacation web site. He was doing this on every type of message board from basket weaving to pet chihuahuas, etc. The weather guy just quit because I called him out on his bullshit by asking difficult questions. None of his posts were deleted, and he is still welcome to post... He was almost banned, people wanted him banned, but it didn't quite happen. Should I invite him back?...

Do you want both of the weather guys to post here? Just go to the San G board and say you need Mt. Baldy forecasts with special warnings for hikers. Then ask them who is the best weather forecaster and what they think of other forecasters and the National Weather Service. Be sure to link back to here...

I do not smoke. I don't care what anyone does, so long as it does not harm anyone else, and they treat me the same way. now that I'm off-topic...

Maxwell's Demon wrote:

simonov wrote:...never been crazy about Perry as a moderator/administrator (he seems like a nice guy, but is prone to banning, editing and deleting to keep his boards squeaky clean; some people like a squeaky clean board, I don't).

Could you provide some specific examples?

No, I don't spend enough time over there to give specific examples.

If you are referring to a very fragile biological system that is close to the tram, have you seen how the tourists treat the wilderness?

I have no idea what this is a reference to, but if you are suggesting Perry was banning or editing people because of their opinions about tourists on the tram, I'd say that's one of the examples you seek right there.

If anything, I occasionally hear mild complaints about too much freedom of speech.

See, I harbor a deep distrust of the motives of people who say things like that.

Maxwell's Demon wrote:As far as other things...almost anything goes, within reason. Whatever your opinion is, fine. If you swear a little, fine. People even talk about smoking pot in the mountains. And then there's Fight On who talks about the evils of caffeine. If anything, I occasionally hear mild complaints about too much freedom of speech.

The truth hurts, if it applies. Only the people who eat that stuff for vanity and have a conscience get their feelings hurt. Those who don't, don't care. I can't help that. At least they have a conscience though.

Maxwell's Demon wrote:

Fight On wrote:And more surprised that he asked me and not him if I knew the forum wasn't about fighting.

You think it was appropriate to say that about his 9-year-old son? Halhiker doesn't have the word "fight" in his username. Nothing was deleted.

Did you miss this?
And "FIGHT ON" is the USC slogan. Has nothing to do with anything else.

halhiker wrote:Don't think you'd want me on a SAR team. I'd probably leave you out there to follow some other lost soul's misplaced ducks until you perish....and then bury your body in one of those Texas grave mounds.

Never saw a word written about that. other than
He forgot to put an emoticon. RIGHT!
That's what I was surprised about.

For what it's worth, you do make the board interesting. It would be a little boring if you stopped posting.

happy crying
blowing kisses to all my fans out there.
"YOU LIKE ME! YOU REALLY LIKE ME!" - Sally Field

Maxwell's Demon wrote:

Fight On wrote:I've seen Perry ban 3 people.

3 people? Are you counting Janice, Crystal, and Jennifer? (same person) Now you don't seriously think that person should be given another chance? And the organic spammer can hardly be considered a person. He was posting meaningless comments about hiking, just to promote his Tenerife vacation web site. He was doing this on every type of message board from basket weaving to pet chihuahuas, etc. The weather guy just quit because I called him out on his bullshit by asking difficult questions. None of his posts were deleted, and he is still welcome to post... He was almost banned, people wanted him banned, but it didn't quite happen. Should I invite him back?...

I never really saw much of what that person wrote. I saw a question asking tinabalina about that monkey and shortly after he was gone. I thought doing something to the computer to stop the owner from accessing the site was banning.

FIGHT ON wrote: Did you miss this?
And "FIGHT ON" is the USC slogan. Has nothing to do with anything else.

halhiker wrote:Don't think you'd want me on a SAR team. I'd probably leave you out there to follow some other lost soul's misplaced ducks until you perish....and then bury your body in one of those Texas grave mounds.

Never saw a word written about that. other than
He forgot to put an emoticon. RIGHT!
That's what I was surprised about.

Okay, that was a little harsh for a friendly forum (although a sarcastic joke), but would you agree that you took it a step further by talking about his son?

FIGHT ON wrote:I never really saw much of what that person wrote.

That person has a history on this board and both of the Mt. Whitney forums. PM or email if you are curious.

simonov wrote:if you are suggesting Perry was banning or editing people because of their opinions about tourists on the tram, I'd say that's one of the examples you seek right there.

Lots of people rip on the tourists. Are you suggesting that people cannot post positive messages about tourists? Try it...

Maxwell's Demon wrote: Lots of people rip on the tourists. Are you suggesting that people cannot post positive messages about tourists? Try it...

The more you post, the less coherent you get.

I really have no idea what this business about the tram and tourists is supposed to be referring to, and you aren't making yourself any clearer.

simonov wrote:

Maxwell's Demon wrote: Lots of people rip on the tourists. Are you suggesting that people cannot post positive messages about tourists? Try it...

The more you post, the less coherent you get.

I really have no idea what this business about the tram and tourists is supposed to be referring to, and you aren't making yourself any clearer.

What the heck are you guys talkin about?

Simonov, I didn't even see your post at the end of page 1! Sorry I missed it! Excellent post.

I'd like to consolidate stuff on here. I am a big organisation-kinda-guy though, so for myself, it's either a handfull of seperate subforums, or a shitload of stickies (think, current conditions, etc). I do feel that we can lump MOST stuff together, though. That said, I like how you go exactly where you want. Plus, this keeps Fight On in off-topic, for the most part.

TacoDelRio wrote:Simonov, I didn't even see your post at the end of page 1! Sorry I missed it! Excellent post.

I'd like to consolidate stuff on here. I am a big organisation-kinda-guy though, so for myself, it's either a handfull of seperate subforums, or a shitload of stickies (think, current conditions, etc). I do feel that we can lump MOST stuff together, though. That said, I like how you go exactly where you want. Plus, this keeps Fight On in off-topic, for the most part.

I say we give FIGHT ON his own subforum.

I just noticed something on that forum, what is a Moderator? AlanK is the Moderator. I've seen two on the san j forum but what do they do? moderate? moderate what? never saw them do anything. most of the time one guy is never around. everybody is always looking for him. I do like KathyW but seriously what are they for?
what a joke! Taco. you should put me as Moderator!!!!!!!!!!! I would be proud.