Angeles Crest Highway (CA-2)

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:42 am

DamOTclese wrote:I can't imagine such massive sums of money being lost like that. Even if it were only $5000, the loss of that much money is a horror.

If you think $5,000 is bad, how about $2,300,000,000,000 ($2.3 trillion) missing from the Pentagon. That's $7,600 for every single man, women and child in the country!

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:03 pm

DamOTclese wrote:Oh man, Washington hookers are expensive!

doesn't think that's funny.

Sewellymon · Post by **Sewellymon** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:45 am

Here's hoping Highway 2 stays closed a long time. Driving conditions are far safer w/ less traffic on ACH. Tourists doing the loop will result in more injury and death (which are way down these last few years on ACH).

Sorry Wrightwood. Rather harder economic times but safer driving conditions. IMHO.

Post by **Taco** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:24 pm

Climbing on Crystal Lake Crag showed me some tagging form back when it was open. Sad.

Need a bouncer?

Post by **Taco** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:32 pm

The crag is split in the center by a scree ramp, and the grafitti is at the bottom on the left side, where I was setting up a belay stance or something.

Seeing these pics is making me want to head up there sometime soon... 8)

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:11 pm

I always fantasize about having a paintball gun and giving them a taste of their own medicine... )

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:21 pm

DamOTclese wrote:but something like that in the photographs needs scrubbers and wire brush.

I've been sayin' that all along!
Wire brush and some elbow grease is all it takes!
But nobody listens to me!

Sewellymon · Post by **Sewellymon** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:47 pm

Hey guys,

I am a fan of scrappy San Gabs cragging (when I can be pried away from my mtn bike, which is never).

These days I tend to solo top rope. Think I’d find some entertaining moderates on the Crystal Lake Crag?

Post by **Taco** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:44 am

Sure.

There are lotsa options. The south tower can hold higher grades, but I'd put a three bolt anchor up top first.

If you need a guide... 8)

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:11 am

TacoDelRio wrote:Sure.

There are lotsa options. The south tower can hold higher grades, but I'd put a three bolt anchor up top first.

If you need a guide... 8)

What are you doing?
I had no idea where these crags were so I looked them up.
First thing I found was this link http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock ... -Crag.html

It's Taco! Been going into the closed area bunches of times!

At the risk of being further censored/banned I can not help but ask.

Why do you go into the Crystal Lake Area when it is closed?
What's the thought process here?
I'm serious.
It's one thing to violate our laws on your own but offering to be a public guide is too much.
To me this is a horrible example and sends the wrong message to new readers or anyone for that matter.
It's bad enough when posters advise parents and children to do the same but when the current admin dude steers the site into posted closed areas I gotta request an explanation.

Post by **Taco** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:40 pm

I talk to people when I go up there on a regular basis. I've yet to have someone protest my going up there, whether alone or with a friend.

Done.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:50 pm

FO -- I agree that people should not go into closed areas. I don't. On the other hand, this Crystal Lake closure is bullshit. The handling is completely incompetent. If the authorities choose to close an area, they have an obligation to publicize the closure and to mark the area clearly. This includes notices at logical entry points.

In this case, I have looked all over the ANF Web site in vain for anything that even hints at a closure. As you found out, you can call and be told that it's open. One needs to be persistent to even learn that it is really closed. As Taco says, no one seems to object to entry when it is observed. Finally, I can start at any number of nearby trailheads and see no sign of the closure until I am nearly to the lake. In other words, I could plan a point to point hike, check the Web and call the USFS, and arrange for transportation only to learn after hours of hiking that my destination is mysteriously closed. As I said, this is bullshit.

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:54 pm

AlanK wrote:FO -- I agree that people should not go into closed areas. I don't. On the other hand, this Crystal Lake closure is bullshit. The handling is completely incompetent. If the authorities choose to close an area, they have an obligation to publicize the closure and to mark the area clearly. This includes notices at logical entry points.

In this case, I have looked all over the ANF Web site in vain for anything that even hints at a closure. As you found out, you can call and be told that it's open. One needs to be persistent to even learn that it is really closed. As Taco says, no one seems to object to entry when it is observed. Finally, I can start at any number of nearby trailheads and see no sign of the closure until I am nearly to the lake. In other words, I could plan a point to point hike, check the Web and call the USFS, and arrange for transportation only to learn after hours of hiking that my destination is mysteriously closed. As I said, this is bullshit.

Alan,
If what you are saying about your searches is true, then that would be absurd! I haven't looked on the internet. Just that phone call. When I asked her where the perimeter was and and when she said she didn't know but to just don't go past the signs I guess I was still in the

mode from hearing the volunteer dude say, "It's closed but you can go in there"

For ten minutes on hold I just kept replaying that over and over in my head and not believing what I heard. It's closed but you can to in there? its closed but you can go in there.... say that again????!!! IT'S CLOSED,.. BUT,...YOU CAN GO IN THERE!!!!!

DUDE. JUST SAY THAT OUT LOUD ONCE! JUST ONCE. SAY IT.

And picture some guy from the ranger station saying that!!!!!!! I was laughing so loud when I told her I could feel the heat from her

coming through the phone.
Anyway, I'm gonna find out. Something ain't right. I suspect signs were put on all those trails you talk about. and people just pulled em down.
What I thought was real funny was on Tacos site there I was looking at the crags and wondering were they were in relation to the Crystal Lake area. Then I look down and the LAKE IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE CRAG!! I mean like RIGHT THERE! REFLECTION!

AND I GO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! TACO WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!

SO FUNNY!

(in a sad kinda way)

Post by **Taco** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:37 am

I'll deal with this when I'm actually awake.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:08 am

DamOTclese -- Just to clarify, what I meant by BS was not the closure itself. "This Crystal Lake closure is bullshit" was a very poor choice of words by me. The area may be closed for perfectly legitimate reasons. I am not attempting to appoint myself as judge of that and I do not think that t he closure is a conspiracy againet me or anyone else.

I hope it's clear from the rest of my post that what I meant to call BS was the near impossibility of getting information about the closure in obvious places like the ANF Web site. I'll also wager that there has never been mention of any closure at trailheads on the north side of the area.

I have not attempted to enter the closed area and would certainly turn around if directed to by a ranger.

Sewellymon · Post by **Sewellymon** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:16 pm

edited .. just wanted to say the guy giving del taco a hard time is way off base

the South Tower looks pretty good. I'd not place bolts tho, if i can sling a tree 50' downhill and drap the cord over the top. Is the summit of the South Tower easily reached via the back side?

BTW, the South Tower looks pretty good. I'd not place bolts tho, if i can sling a tree 50' downhill and drap the cord over the top. Is the summit of the South Tower easily reached via the back side?

Post by **Taco** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:39 am

Erm, for me or Fight On? I think yer quoting thing didn't turn out so hot.

I've been up there a handfull of time with lots of gear. For those of us who can't afford to drive to JTree or elsewhere, it's a good little crag. I like it more. 8)

Sewellymon · Post by **Sewellymon** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:19 am

cool. i like the idea of a lil crag that sees little traffic

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:25 am

Sewellymon wrote:edited .. just wanted to say the guy giving del taco a hard time is way off base

I am assuming your thoughts are about me.

(I read your post before you edited it.)8)
Love to hear a more detailed explanation.

Post by **Taco** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:05 pm

Sewelly, it's got it's own market! 8)

AW~ · Post by **AW~** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:07 pm

I guess this thread is hijacked, but Im still not buying this Crystal Lake closure.....the PCT was burnt also but why dont we hear about "fire recovery"?.....again, this safety concern is overblown...a fallen branch consitutes trail closure..come on...tell me how using the South Hawkins fire road to access Crystal Lake is a safety hazard? And I would need pictures to see if some log on the asphalt road just cant be walked around....as I saw it the road was quite clear.

I dont think people should not follow the order..after all, Williamson rock would see a lot of people, but it seems to me, that the forest service is a public entity has to have a legitimate reason not to allow access. In the Williamson case, there is the subject of an endangered species and wilderness now, but in Crystal Lake, we know that the area was going to be opened in 2006...and just never was. Thankfully, I think we have a head ranger who will get it re-opened once Hwy 39 reopens and the forest service has the right setup in place for the influx of people...but I think the newspapers will write about this long delay(since the lake has long been forgotten and people are going to be asking 'we have a lake?..since when?') and it wont be favorable to the forest service...and if it goes the same as previous writings, the race card could well be played on this lake, which wasnt even restored.

Fight on, that picture could have been shot before the closure

and the summitpost was for informational purposes only

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:36 pm

AW wrote:I guess this thread is hijacked, but Im still not buying this Crystal Lake closure.....the PCT was burnt also but why dont we hear about "fire recovery"?.....again, this safety concern is overblown...a fallen branch consitutes trail closure..come on...tell me how using the South Hawkins fire road to access Crystal Lake is a safety hazard? And I would need pictures to see if some log on the asphalt road just cant be walked around....as I saw it the road was quite clear.

I dont think people should not follow the order..after all, Williamson rock would see a lot of people, but it seems to me, that the forest service is a public entity has to have a legitimate reason not to allow access. In the Williamson case, there is the subject of an endangered species and wilderness now, but in Crystal Lake, we know that the area was going to be opened in 2006...and just never was. Thankfully, I think we have a head ranger who will get it re-opened once Hwy 39 reopens and the forest service has the right setup in place for the influx of people...but I think the newspapers will write about this long delay(since the lake has long been forgotten and people are going to be asking 'we have a lake?..since when?') and it wont be favorable to the forest service...and if it goes the same as previous writings, the race card could well be played on this lake, which wasnt even restored.

Fight on, that picture could have been shot before the closure and the summitpost was for informational purposes only

What are you trying to say? That maybe Taco didn't take that picture? That Taco was talking about his trips into the area before it was closed?
Did you read this?
Red Tape
Due to the 2002 fire, the area is closed down. I have visited the area multiple times., and talked with construction and fire crews upon each visit to the Crystal Lake area, and they had zero problem with me being there.

And this?
Camping
Camping is allowed at the campgrounds only.

HOWEVER...

The campground is currently out of commission. If you were to "stealth-camp" near the base of the crag, or in another place safe from rockfall yet close enough, it is highly highly unlikely that you will be spotted or recieve any form of contact.

That kind of informational purpose is the wrong kind. Sorry.
The place is CLOSED. PERIOD.
Just because you guys have your own personal reasons why it's a bs law doesn't justify entering.
Those guys working in the area do not have the authority to grant anybody permission. Asking them if it is ok if you are there is meaningless. Doesn't make it ok. In fact they should be fired or be cited and escorted out of the area too. Double fine for them! Just like that dude I talked to on the phone, "Mr. It's closed but you can go in there."

People read those SummitPosts to get reliable information.
Encouraging people to break the law no matter how stupid YOU think it is just beyond wrong.
Ya ought to replace all the suggestions about entering with DO NOT GO IN THERE BECAUSE IT IS CLOSED.

Post by **Taco** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:03 am

FIGHT ON wrote:People read those SummitPosts to get reliable information.
Encouraging people to break the law no matter how stupid YOU think it is just beyond wrong.
Ya ought to replace all the suggestions about entering with DO NOT GO IN THERE BECAUSE IT IS CLOSED.

You ought to stop talking for long enough to see that ZERO people appreciate your input. You are on probation for a reason. Ever notice how you're the only one who replies to your college football threads on here and on other SoCal mountain forums?

I climbed the Snow Creek route on Mount San Jacinto, wanna call the cops on me for that?

I don't need another father/parent/guardian. Go somewhere else to be someone's friggin' nanny.

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:48 am

TacoDelRio wrote:
FIGHT ON wrote:People read those SummitPosts to get reliable information.
Encouraging people to break the law no matter how stupid YOU think it is just beyond wrong.
Ya ought to replace all the suggestions about entering with DO NOT GO IN THERE BECAUSE IT IS CLOSED.
You ought to stop talking for long enough to see that ZERO people appreciate your input. You are on probation for a reason. Ever notice how you're the only one who replies to your college football threads on here and on other SoCal mountain forums?

I climbed the Snow Creek route on Mount San Jacinto, wanna call the cops on me for that?

I don't need another father/parent/guardian. Go somewhere else to be someone's friggin' nanny.

TacoDelRio wrote:You ought to stop talking for long enough to see that ZERO people appreciate your input. You are on probation for a reason. Ever notice how you're the only one who replies to your college football threads on here and on other SoCal mountain forums?

Now now.

what does this have to do with what you quoted? distractions really don't qualify as a legit response.

TacoDelRio wrote:I climbed the Snow Creek route on Mount San Jacinto, wanna call the cops on me for that?

That's wrong too! From what I have heard you have to trespass to gain access to the trail. I think it's private property. I would get permission from the owner of the land first. Is the actual Snow Creek route off limits too? woopps, I guess I might have to call the sj ranger station and claw my way through to find out the truth!

TacoDelRio wrote:I don't need another father/parent/guardian. Go somewhere else to be someone's friggin' nanny.

Ah! Finally a response to my last post! Well maybe it isn't but I think it's saying that my questions about you and or others that enter closed areas makes you feel like a child that needs a nanny?
It's not really me that you are in conflict with here, it's your conscience. At least you have one. Pay attention to it.
What you really ought to do is explain in detail your position on giving people bad advice on the summit link. or being a guide into a closed area. That's if you are 100% sure you are right. If you would rather not discuss such things or have said discussions off limits then maybe, TO BE FAIR, you should put something like that on your forum rules.
Like the one over sgwa. "The San Gorgonio Backcountry Bulletin Board exists as a forum for sharing information (NOT DEBATING ISSUES)"
Or maybe just modify it to say this. "it's ok to debate stuff as long as it is in agreement with the admin dude."
My view is that this and other similar subjects should be discussed openly and at great length. hello? it's about the mountains!!!!
I really believe is that my position on this subject is dead on. And I invite anyone, ANYONE, to debate this with me, including the Administrator of this board or any other board. I don't care who it is. BRING IT ON!
Including my views on this subject to extend your probation would be as wrong as anyone entering that area.
BTW. could you please at least review my list of posts that are not viewable at this time? (I keep emailing them to you, you can clik on my FIGHT ON and it has a list of my posts. There are still a bunch of them banned. Thank you.)
Or at least tell me why they are still banned.
Or even better yet. Either here or in the pm show me posts that are the reasons that you have continued this probation.
Dude I love this forum!
Be fair Taco. You can. I've seen you do it!
Thanks. and above all.. BEAT.... THE IRISH! 8)

Post by **HikeUp** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:18 am

DamOTclese wrote:...unholy steaming piles of bear shit!

Kinda describes this thread.

Post by **Taco** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:03 pm

Fight On: Neat. I have a job. If I don't find your posts that haven't been approved (since I have a life, job, family, friends, etc), then too stinking bad. Deal with it.

I don't feel bad for having trespassed anytime in the past. That's my decision. I also limit the amount of warnings I put elsewhere to be basic, as it's their responsibility to do what they deem to be some sort of moral high-chair "right thing".

"it's ok to debate stuff as long as it is in agreement with the admin dude."

Another reason you're about an inch away from being banned.

Be fair Taco. You can. I've seen you do it!

You're still here and this thread has gone downhill, proof that I'm not fair.

Don't push it.

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:57 pm

TacoDelRio wrote:then too stinking bad. Deal with it.

Not fair. No explanation. After repeated attempts and requests to discuss this matter Taco responds with little more than a smiley face. Minus points.

TacoDelRio wrote:I don't feel bad for having trespassed anytime in the past. That's my decision. I also limit the amount of warnings I put elsewhere to be basic, as it's their responsibility to do what they deem to be some sort of moral high-chair "right thing".

So let me get this straight, If you were one of those guys that broke into cars and invited someone to do it with you, on this forum, and I expressed outrage would you feel the same way? like say don't push it and such? threaten to ban me stuff? Nice. Real fair.

TacoDelRio wrote:
"it's ok to debate stuff as long as it is in agreement with the admin dude."
Another reason you're about an inch away from being banned.

This is what you are going to ban me for? For quoting your summit post and expressing my disagreement? This is fair?!

TacoDelRio wrote:
Be fair Taco. You can. I've seen you do it!
You're still here and this thread has gone downhill, proof that I'm not fair.

No clue what you are talking about. Again my comments are about you offering yourself up to be a guide for a member of this board to enter a closed area. What was I supposed to do?, be quiet? SAY NOTHING? Is that it? Not fair! Talk!! Be fair!

TacoDelRio wrote:Don't push it.

Don't push what? What does that mean? Say something!!!!

Post by **Taco** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:42 am

Congrats. You're an ass.

For you:

Have a most EXCELLENT night!

Enjoy those other forums!

Terry Morse · Post by **Terry Morse** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:46 am

Yay!!! Finally.

Post by **HikeUp** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:52 am

Ass cookie?