Cactus to Tram to Cactus, 11-Oct-2008

[Tim]

I'm supposed to lead some friends up C2C next week. Since the weather yesterday was really nice, I decided to check out the route again.

I started hiking shortly after 3am and met Cy and three ladies just starting the hike. I hiked with them up to the picnic tables then went ahead. It was nice meeting you, Cy! The weather was perfect and only slightly breezy. The moon had already set, so there was no moonlight.

I had thought about doing the entire C2C2C, but after reaching Long Valley I said forget it. So I hiked back down Skyline to see what it would be like. I've descended 8,000 ft over 11 miles before (Rabbit Peak) but somehow this one was an even bigger nightmare. My knees and feet were destroyed and I kept stubbing my toes on the rocks over and over again. If you want to know what it's like, kick your toes into your dining table legs about a dozen times.

I think I saw between 2-3 dozen people on Skyline that day. The majority of them reached Long Valley before noon. I only saw a few people after that. Everyone gave me a perplexed look because I was going down. The most interesting group I met was around 2pm and 4,500 ft. There were these two attractive young ladies, with full backpacks and camping gear, heading up the trail in the middle of the day all by themselves. They said they started hiking at 11am. They were making really good time considering all the stuff they were carrying. They didn't look tired at all. But they were not dressed in standard hiking apparel. Instead they had on 80's short shorts. I think Dudley would have appreciated them.

I really don't see much value in hiking back down Skyline unless you are a purest mountaineer or something . I'm just a recreational hiker so I won't be doing this ever again.

[FIGHT ON]

I don't hear of many people hiking back down. Was it hot going back? Does this mean you aren't going to do the c2c2c ever? (imagine including the remaining upper section, 11 more miles, before you started back down, kicking rocks!) What kinda shoes were you wearing?

[AlanK]

The most interesting group I met was around 2pm and 4,500 ft. There were these two attractive young ladies, with full backpacks and camping gear, heading up the trail in the middle of the day all by themselves. They said they started hiking at 11am. They were making really good time considering all the stuff they were carrying. They didn't look tired at all. But they were not dressed in standard hiking apparel. Instead they had on 80's short shorts. I think Dudley would have appreciated them.

Yeah, one can see amazing things when tired enough. Just don't be too disappointed when you find out that no one else saw them... ever.

[Cy Kaicener]

It was great meeting you Tim. I cant believe you did not want to take the tram down. Its also hard to believe that anyone would want to backpack up there unless they were preparing for the Himalayas.
Here is a link to our trip reports
http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic. ... 3&start=30

[Tim]

FO - It wasn't hot going back. I don't think I'll ever do C2C2C. My limit seems to be around 20 something miles. 34 is just too much.

Alan - Those two girls sure seemed real to me, but what I saw was so out of place (and at the same time very interesting) it wouldn't surprise me if I was hallucinating. But they were in good spirits and seemed perfectly capable of making it up there, with the weather that day being so cooperative.

[FIGHT ON]

FO - It wasn't hot going back. I don't think I'll ever do C2C2C. My limit seems to be around 20 something miles. 34 is just too much.

This is bull! Doesn't make sense to me. Can't figure out what was so hard. I mean I know it's a hard hike but something ain't right here. Do you use poles? (you didn't say what kinda shoes you wore? (like Alan suggests, girls from the 80s??) Are you sure you didn't leave them at the tram?)
Anyway that is pretty sad because it sounds like the temps and all the other conditions for that section of c2c2c could not get much better. So if it was that bad for ya, it makes sense that you would write it off. I wanna do that hike, hope it doesn't happen to me.

[simonov]

Alan - Those two girls sure seemed real to me, but what I saw was so out of place (and at the same time very interesting) it wouldn't surprise me if I was hallucinating. But they were in good spirits and seemed perfectly capable of making it up there, with the weather that day being so cooperative.

Aren't you some kind of a photographer guy? Where are the pics?

[JMunaretto]

lol

[AlanK]

The problems that Tim described relating to his descent had nothing to do with temperature. High temperatures would have made it worse, of course. Butthe fact is that the trail is quite steep near the top and pretty steep near the bottom. After beating oneself up climbing 8000', I can see why the descent would be tough.

Give Tim a break! He gave an honest report on a tough outing.

[Tim]

FO - I use a single hiking pole and I wear Salomon hiking shoes (not boots). I didn't get much sleep since I had to get there early. Not enough sleep seems to have a big effect on me. But to be honest, I'm just a hiker of average ability. I'm sure there are stronger hikers that can do these extreme hikes, like Rick Kent and many others. I'm just reporting what I personally went through.

The main thing I want to mention is don't underestimate how hard downhill hiking is. When you climb big mountains, you are building up enormous amounts of gravitational potential energy. All this energy has to be dissipated when you go down. It's dissipated through your joints and muscles as you try to decelerate your descent with each step. For example, on Skyline, I dissipated about 1,500,000 joules of energy over 11 miles. The steeper and rockier the trail is, the more jarring each step of deceleration becomes. After awhile, this fatigues the entire body and you become less coordinated. Like for me, I start stubbing my toes on rocks. And like Alan mentioned, the upper and lower portions of Skyline are very steep and the lower portion is very rocky.

Sorry I didn't get a pic of the girls. My camera was stowed for the descent. They might have been creeped out by a picture anyway.

[FIGHT ON]

FO - I use a single hiking pole and I wear Salomon hiking shoes (not boots). I didn't get much sleep since I had to get there early. Not enough sleep seems to have a big effect on me.

The main thing I want to mention is don't underestimate how hard downhill hiking is. When you climb big mountains, you are building up enormous amounts of gravitational potential energy. All this energy has to be dissipated when you go down. It's dissipated through your joints and muscles as you try to decelerate your descent with each step. For example, on Skyline, I dissipated about 1,500,000 joules of energy over 11 miles. The steeper and rockier the trail is, the more jarring each step of deceleration becomes. After awhile, this fatigues the entire body and you become less coordinated. Like for me, I start stubbing my toes on rocks.

One pole? I can't see how that works. Do you use it on the up hill or on the down or both? I like to use two poles on the up and down. On the down I let them take a lot of the pounding, kinda like crutches. It really works for me. I bet if you used two you wouldn't have as much pain.
I know how that feels to keep kicking the same toe.

[AlanK]

I am a big fan of trekking poles. I also think that their attractiveness increases with the age of the user. My son wants nothing to do with them and he does the steepest downhills with nary a care. If you don't have youth on your side, trekking poles are an (inferior) option.

[simonov]

The main thing I want to mention is don't underestimate how hard downhill hiking is. When you climb big mountains, you are building up enormous amounts of gravitational potential energy. All this energy has to be dissipated when you go down. It's dissipated through your joints and muscles as you try to decelerate your descent with each step. For example, on Skyline, I dissipated about 1,500,000 joules of energy over 11 miles. The steeper and rockier the trail is, the more jarring each step of deceleration becomes. After awhile, this fatigues the entire body and you become less coordinated. Like for me, I start stubbing my toes on rocks.

Descent is usually harder for me than ascent. I have delicate feet, apparently, and walking down a mountain just beats them up. I decided earlier this year to wear my heavy mountaineering boots for anything beyond my local conditioning hikes, as my feet are turned into pulp wearing my trail shoes in the mountains.

I have begun to notice when hiking with groups that while I can move up a mountain pretty quickly, I am very slow indeed coming down. I am sorta dreading this week's planned Whitney hike, as while I don't anticipate any problems getting to the top, I'm pretty sure the long 11 mile downhill is going to badly chew up my feet. And I'm not sure I'll be able to complete the hike in 12 hours.

Sorry I didn't get a pic of the girls. My camera was stowed for the descent. They might have been creeped out by a picture anyway.

No risk, no reward.

[Taco]

I use one trekking pole, mostly because I lost my second. I'd rather just carry one, and I really just use it in the same fashion as an axe, in the uphill hand most of the time except when on scree and on and on.

[AlanK]

I use one trekking pole, mostly because I lost my second. I'd rather just carry one, and I really just use it in the same fashion as an axe, in the uphill hand most of the time except when on scree and on and on.

Well, you're younger than me and older than my son, so you can average between 0 (my son) and 2 poles (me). If you were as old as FIGHT ON, you should use 3.

[Hikin_Jim]

Oh, dear, now there's a visual.

[FIGHT ON]

Descent is usually harder for me than ascent. I have delicate feet, apparently, and walking down a mountain just beats them up. I decided earlier this year to wear my heavy mountaineering boots for anything beyond my local conditioning hikes, as my feet are turned into pulp wearing my trail shoes in the mountains.

I have begun to notice when hiking with groups that while I can move up a mountain pretty quickly, I am very slow indeed coming down. I am sorta dreading this week's planned Whitney hike, as while I don't anticipate any problems getting to the top, I'm pretty sure the long 11 mile downhill is going to badly chew up my feet. And I'm not sure I'll be able to complete the hike in 12 hours.

Gotta try poles.
They work. What ever weight you put on them on the downhill is how much less weight you take off your feet/knees/hips etc. I try to float down! I works em. can't stand the down hill blues baby!
Hey and by the way, is this your first time up Whitney? It's really not steep at all. It's just that you can't breath. and make sure you bring your camera. we wanna see them pictures of YOUR hallucinations.

[Taco]

I use one trekking pole, mostly because I lost my second. I'd rather just carry one, and I really just use it in the same fashion as an axe, in the uphill hand most of the time except when on scree and on and on.

Well, you're younger than me and older than my son, so you can average between 0 (my son) and 2 poles (me). If you were as old as FIGHT ON, you should use 3.

I still have tricky knees at times.

[FIGHT ON]

I use one trekking pole, mostly because I lost my second. I'd rather just carry one, and I really just use it in the same fashion as an axe, in the uphill hand most of the time except when on scree and on and on.

Well, you're younger than me and older than my son, so you can average between 0 (my son) and 2 poles (me). If you were as old as FIGHT ON, you should use 3.

I still have tricky knees at times.

IM TELLIN YA. yo knees are gonna wind up lookin like hikesups liver if ya don't start woikin them thar poles!

[Taco]

You want me to strip for you?

Flattering.

I drink enough. HikeUp and I can have a liver degeneration contest.