Bailey Canyon Trail Run

Augie · Post by **Augie** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:21 am

To get one more training run in for the upcoming Baldy Run- to- the-Top, I did a run up Bailey Canyon to Jones Peak this Friday. This is about 3.3 mile one way with about 2200' gain. It was hot and the trail was dusty, but otherwise in good shape. Tons of dried buckwheat plant along the sides.

I was surpirsed to see that the pole on top of Jones Peak is gone. The summit is marked by a plastic orange "thing" draped over a rock.

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:52 am

Augie wrote:To get one more training run in for the upcoming Baldy Run- to- the-Top, I did a run up Bailey Canyon to Jones Peak this Friday. This is about 3.3 mile one way with about 2200' gain. It was hot and the trail was dusty, but otherwise in good shape. Tons of dried buckwheat plant along the sides.

I was surpirsed to see that the pole on top of Jones Peak is gone. The summit is marked by a plastic orange "thing" draped over a rock.

Augie. Do you think that the elevation of where you trained plays any significant role in the baldy run. What I am asking is would it have been better to have done your training run at a higher elevation like actually up baldy instead?

Post by **HikeUp** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:48 am

Augie wrote:I was surpirsed to see that the pole on top of Jones Peak is gone. The summit is marked by a plastic orange "thing" draped over a rock.

I'm guessing they took the pole out when they turned the peak into a makeshift helipad during the fire last spring. The orange thing and a rock is all that's left of the markers they put down for the helipad. Pic taken on May 31st...

Augie · Post by **Augie** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:43 pm

FIGHT ON asked:

Augie. Do you think that the elevation of where you trained plays any significant role in the baldy run. What I am asking is would it have been better to have done your training run at a higher elevation like actually up baldy instead?

Yes, it is always better to train on the course you will run (training specificity and all that), but at my recreational pace, any hill training at all, even at a much lower elevation, is very helpful and indeed necessary. The thing is, a trail runner (and by definition I mean someone who gains elevation and not just runs on a flat dirt path) needs to get used to the feeling of constant burn in the quads. One can get used to this feeling running uphill at 2,000 feet as at 10,000 feet.

Augie · Post by **Augie** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:46 pm

HikeUp,

Thanks for clearing up the mystery about Jones Peak.

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:47 pm

Augie wrote:FIGHT ON asked:

Augie. Do you think that the elevation of where you trained plays any significant role in the baldy run. What I am asking is would it have been better to have done your training run at a higher elevation like actually up baldy instead?

Yes, it is always better to train on the course you will run (training specificity and all that), but at my recreational pace, any hill training at all, even at a much lower elevation, is very helpful and indeed necessary. The thing is, a trail runner (and by definition I mean someone who gains elevation and not just runs on a flat dirt path) needs to get used to the feeling of constant burn in the quads. One can get used to this feeling running uphill at 2,000 feet as at 10,000 feet.

ok But if you could have done the same workout on Baldy instead, (and im not talking about getting more familiar with the trail) Would the elevation difference between the two locations make any difference in the result of your performance on monday? If not how long would you need to train at Baldy instead of Bailey to make a difference?

Augie · Post by **Augie** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:05 am

FIGHT ON wrote:
Augie wrote:FIGHT ON asked:

Augie. Do you think that the elevation of where you trained plays any significant role in the baldy run. What I am asking is would it have been better to have done your training run at a higher elevation like actually up baldy instead?

Yes, it is always better to train on the course you will run (training specificity and all that), but at my recreational pace, any hill training at all, even at a much lower elevation, is very helpful and indeed necessary. The thing is, a trail runner (and by definition I mean someone who gains elevation and not just runs on a flat dirt path) needs to get used to the feeling of constant burn in the quads. One can get used to this feeling running uphill at 2,000 feet as at 10,000 feet.
ok But if you could have done the same workout on Baldy instead, (and im not talking about getting more familiar with the trail) Would the elevation difference between the two locations make any difference in the result of your performance on monday? If not how long would you need to train at Baldy instead of Bailey to make a difference?

My guess would be this: doing the same amount of training (which was not much; only 3 trail runs in the last 6 weeks) the difference would probably be 2-3 minutes faster in race time having training at Baldy vs Bailey.

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:30 am

Augie wrote:
FIGHT ON wrote:
Augie wrote:FIGHT ON asked:

Augie. Do you think that the elevation of where you trained plays any significant role in the baldy run. What I am asking is would it have been better to have done your training run at a higher elevation like actually up baldy instead?

Yes, it is always better to train on the course you will run (training specificity and all that), but at my recreational pace, any hill training at all, even at a much lower elevation, is very helpful and indeed necessary. The thing is, a trail runner (and by definition I mean someone who gains elevation and not just runs on a flat dirt path) needs to get used to the feeling of constant burn in the quads. One can get used to this feeling running uphill at 2,000 feet as at 10,000 feet.
ok But if you could have done the same workout on Baldy instead, (and im not talking about getting more familiar with the trail) Would the elevation difference between the two locations make any difference in the result of your performance on monday? If not how long would you need to train at Baldy instead of Bailey to make a difference?
My guess would be this: doing the same amount of training (which was not much; only 3 trail runs in the last 6 weeks) the difference would probably be 2-3 minutes faster in race time having training at Baldy vs Bailey.

Wonder how often Perry trains?? Some people live for races. Would be a nice lifestyle.
Ya I wonder if that could be measured. I can't figure out how it could but it seems to me that the more you train up where there is less oxygen then your body does stuff to make it used to it. Like acclimating for a hike. I remember on a ride back from maker to the village the driver was telling me about his wife and himself doing very fast times up to baldy. Because he lives up there. His body is used to it. Maybe it doesn't help much if you don't live up. I believe if you live at sea level and only work out at 8k plus, vs living above 8k. with the same workout would make a huge difference.
What I don't know is living at sea level and only working out above 8k vs. working out at sea level. How would you measure that difference in result?

JMunaretto · Post by **JMunaretto** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:26 pm

There probably is some scientific research on this, I'll have to take a look.

My guess is there could be some improvement of lung capacity or more easily creating a larger pressure gradient so that oxygen saturation can stay closer 100% even at high altitudes. But just a guess.

FIGHT ON · Post by **FIGHT ON** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:38 pm

JMunaretto wrote:There probably is some scientific research on this, I'll have to take a look.

My guess is there could be some improvement of lung capacity or more easily creating a larger pressure gradient so that oxygen saturation can stay closer 100% even at high altitudes. But just a guess.

FIGHT ON can not be the only person in the world to have thought of this.