I've been mountain biking for a long time...but somewhat new to doing a lot of hiking (couple years). I'm always amazed at some of the things across which I come, here n SoCal (though it's probably other places too).
Litter- This one astounds me! On almost every trail, you will find wrappers, potato chip bags, bottles, etc EVERYWHERE!! What the F is wrong with people?? You're out for a hike, but too lazy to not drop you trash on the ground? Or maybe they are just too important to bother? I regularly see Starbucks cups on the ground, or even stuck into a bush or tree at most trailheads, or within 100 yards of the entrance. Go check out the San Gabriel River (especially north fork) and it's so littered (and graffiti'd), my blood boils. I was recently on Echo Mtn above Altadena....the amount of trash was mind boggling.
My policy (and those with me)- on every hike, I pick up 2 pieces of trash
Graffiti- no comment needed
Cutting Switchbacks- I've gone back and forth on this one. Yes, I stay on the trails, but have witnessed people cutting. This summer, while in Ice House (climbing Timber Mtn), cam across a 60ish year old "hot shot" kind of guy. HE was blatantly cutting nearly every switchback, dragging his poles, kicking up dust and almost rubbing it in everyone's face. At the top of Timber, my hiking buddy and I asked him about it.....he just sort of rolled his eyes and acted like there was nothing wrong and no damage being done. This guy was NOT new to hiking. He was decked out it top notch everything. Rather than really confront him, I let it go....being a newb and wondering if trail cutting really did that much damage or if maybe he was right and it was just "hype". Well, I now am thoroughly of the opinion it does damage, and is just a d-bag thing to be doing (if others have other opinions, I'd love to be educated).
...I guess this is more a vent than anything. I still can't understand the "me me me" attitude that allows people to toss trash on the ground, destroy trails, paint their "symbols" on walls, rocks, and signs/markers, etc....p#$$ in streams....and generally attempt to destroy OUR wild and natural places??
Litter, Trail Cutting and other things that blow my mind
Title 36 CFR 261.55e “Shortcutting a switchback in a trail.”
But the trail has been laid out and constructed to reduce the impact on the environment by trail users.
Without the switchbacks and other trail features erosion would be severe.
Since most of the trail work in the Angeles and other local NF lands are done by volunteers, if they are spending their time repairing damage done by trail users. They are not doing needed maintenance down the trail.
But the trail has been laid out and constructed to reduce the impact on the environment by trail users.
Without the switchbacks and other trail features erosion would be severe.
Since most of the trail work in the Angeles and other local NF lands are done by volunteers, if they are spending their time repairing damage done by trail users. They are not doing needed maintenance down the trail.
yeah the litter blows my mind. I was at Chantry flats and was just blown away at all the trash left by the cars on the side of the road. Put it in your car and drive it home.
I was at 7 11 one day and saw this guy eating their pizza, when he was done he opened his car door and dropped the cardboard box on the ground. I chit you not, the trash can was in front of his car. Sometimes I have a problem keeping my mouth closed, so I said something to him. He got out with a cane and hobbled to the trash can. I felt bad about the cane and how long it took him to get to the trash can, but he could have taken it home with him and throw it in his damn trash can.
Pick up your damn trash people!
/rant offf
nice geocache hikeup
take something leave something...
I was at 7 11 one day and saw this guy eating their pizza, when he was done he opened his car door and dropped the cardboard box on the ground. I chit you not, the trash can was in front of his car. Sometimes I have a problem keeping my mouth closed, so I said something to him. He got out with a cane and hobbled to the trash can. I felt bad about the cane and how long it took him to get to the trash can, but he could have taken it home with him and throw it in his damn trash can.
Pick up your damn trash people!
/rant offf
nice geocache hikeup
take something leave something...-
BrownMtnBob
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:55 pm
Yea, some day, I'll get myself in trouble being the litter police. I usually confront people who do that.....the stories I could tell about trash I've tossed BACK into people's cars while saying "I'm sorry, I think you accidentally dropped this back there"yobtaf wrote: ↑yeah the litter blows my mind. I was at Chantry flats and was just blown away at all the trash left by the cars on the side of the road. Put it in your car and drive it home.
I was at 7 11 one day and saw this guy eating their pizza, when he was done he opened his car door and dropped the cardboard box on the ground. I chit you not, the trash can was in front of his car. Sometimes I have a problem keeping my mouth closed, so I said something to him. He got out with a cane and hobbled to the trash can. I felt bad about the cane and how long it took him to get to the trash can, but he could have taken it home with him and throw it in his damn trash can.
Pick up your damn trash people!
/rant offf
nice geocache hikeup
Regarding the trash I do not think that I have gone out on a single outing into the mountains without having to bring some lazy bastards trash out of the mountains. If they can expend the energy to get it there, then they can sure as hell expend the energy to pack it out.
Last weekend I remove three cigarette butts from the campsite I was using at Little Jimmy. These people must think their Mom is going to follow their sorry asses all over the hills and pick up after their lazy asses.
One time my buddies and I found a whole campsite put together by what we assumed to be bums that abandoned the site with their shelters made of cheap Mylar and tarps still there (this was at the Cooper Canyon trail camp). The four of us took the time to strike the entire camp and pack all that crap out; the selfishness of some people is truly astounding and mind-boggling.
Last weekend I remove three cigarette butts from the campsite I was using at Little Jimmy. These people must think their Mom is going to follow their sorry asses all over the hills and pick up after their lazy asses.
One time my buddies and I found a whole campsite put together by what we assumed to be bums that abandoned the site with their shelters made of cheap Mylar and tarps still there (this was at the Cooper Canyon trail camp). The four of us took the time to strike the entire camp and pack all that crap out; the selfishness of some people is truly astounding and mind-boggling.
As a guy who works on trails in Altadena, I don't let the disrespectful hikers bother me or disrupt my enjoyment of the mountains. Such people are not worth considering, unless you catch them in the act, then you can say something and maybe convince them to change their behavior.
There are some places that I avoid because there is too much trash or graffiti. These places tend to be near easily accessible waterfalls or streams, where disrespectful kids (or adults) hang out.
Occasionally you'll see a bottle or something along more remote trails. Maybe it fell out of someone's pack. Maybe they tossed it. Maybe I'll pick it up. Maybe someone else will. No big deal.
Cutting switchbacks, however, is an entirely different issue. While littering disrespects other hikers in general, cutting switchbacks specifically disrespects the trail builders. Such assholes should be tied to the nearest tree and whipped.
There are some places that I avoid because there is too much trash or graffiti. These places tend to be near easily accessible waterfalls or streams, where disrespectful kids (or adults) hang out.
Occasionally you'll see a bottle or something along more remote trails. Maybe it fell out of someone's pack. Maybe they tossed it. Maybe I'll pick it up. Maybe someone else will. No big deal.
Cutting switchbacks, however, is an entirely different issue. While littering disrespects other hikers in general, cutting switchbacks specifically disrespects the trail builders. Such assholes should be tied to the nearest tree and whipped.
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BrownMtnBob
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:55 pm
I always have rags and "Goof Off" graffiti remover in my truck, and have cleaned all kinds of "tagging off of the bridge and signs along Gabrialino/Fern TT/Brown Mtn trail. Also tagging (about every 6 months) on the historical markers along Sunset Trail / Mt Lowe Motorway. In fact, I may go take care of some on Brown Mtn today, in the rain
I've picked up trash everywhere too - I'm not to the point where I bring a bag with me but I will put Clif bar wrappers in my back pocket.
And cutting switchbacks bugs me too - I've mentioned to a few people "that's not trail" when they do it. Definitely one of my pet peeves!
And cutting switchbacks bugs me too - I've mentioned to a few people "that's not trail" when they do it. Definitely one of my pet peeves!
"Argue for your limitations and sure enough they're yours".
Donald Shimoda
Donald Shimoda
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davantalus
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:09 am
I don't pick up a whole lot of trash, but I do take pride in bringing back every reflective nylon balloon I come across in canyons.
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FiveCharlie
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:32 pm
Signs like that work in places like Yosemite, in the Angeles its just another canvas for Graffiti.
Gotta go with this.FiveCharlie wrote: ↑Signs like that work in places like Yosemite, in the Angeles its just another canvas for Graffiti.
My mind is blown when I see garbage in Yosemite. When I was in the SG's, I wouldn't even notice a dead body.
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Uncle Rico
- Posts: 1402
- Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:48 pm
Not to revive an old topic or anything, but I can't wrap my mind around the hiker who brings a plastic poo bag for when their dog takes a dump on the trail, picks up a steaming pile of shit with the bag, ties it up with a nice little bow, and then leaves a bag that won't degrade for a zillion years in the middle of the trail. Why even bring the damn bag in the first place?
Ok, end of rant.
Ok, end of rant.
I have a few theories:Uncle Rico wrote: ↑I can't wrap my mind around the hiker who brings a plastic poo bag for when their dog takes a dump on the trail, picks up a steaming pile of shit with the bag, ties it up with a nice little bow, and then leaves a bag that won't degrade for a zillion years in the middle of the trail.
1. The dog owner meant to retrieve the bag on the return but forgot.
2. The dog owner is thoughtful enough to bag up the shit so nobody steps in it, but too lazy to pack it out.
3. It's not actually dog shit, it's human shit, and the hiker used the bag to prevent shitting on himself or his clothing. Then he either forgot it on the return or was too lazy to pack it out.
4. It's actually a tiny Shit Tree. Be glad you didn't see it full grown.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... it%20Trees
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cougarmagic
- Posts: 1409
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 5:21 pm
As a hiking-dog owner, I can say that most of the time, these little bags are picked up on the hike out. Dogs get all excited about new smells, so that makes them go #2 right away on a hike. Don't want to carry that stuff for the whole hike, so I'll pick it up on the way out. It's lazy, but there it is...
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Uncle Rico
- Posts: 1402
- Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:48 pm
I can see what your saying cougar, but Sean's shit tree theory is very compelling so I'm going with that. 
For graffiti, there was an article on how the vandals like to brag on social media about it. And then there is this dude on Flicker....357Killzz. Upload on April 12,2013 are some shots of graffiti in Eaton(above the first falls), and who is behind it.
A little research indicates that the graffiti is from tagging crews that are notorious for vandalism across Los Angeles....not just your average kid bringing in paint, but people targeting these places to show and tell bragging rights.
A little research indicates that the graffiti is from tagging crews that are notorious for vandalism across Los Angeles....not just your average kid bringing in paint, but people targeting these places to show and tell bragging rights.
I will say, for me, that is just as bad. What makes it different for some people? Their race? Social status? How much they spend at REI? I was actually searching for a pic of that because I feel it is the same. But in todays age, the rules of life dont apply to some people. I just had a phone call last week and discussed this very thing. I was told to Fight on.
Ducking for cover!
Ducking for cover!
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Uncle Rico
- Posts: 1402
- Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:48 pm
I hear ya Yob. It differs in visibility, size, style, color, and message, but I think it ultimately comes from the same place. However, it doesn't seem to evoke the same visceral negative reaction as the stuff from the "urban" territory markers does. Curious.
Ducking for cover as well.
Ducking for cover as well.
