This may seem out of the blue but I've been wondering about it for a while.
Is packing ultralight really that necessary for dayhiking (or even an over nighter)? Is worrying about a few ounces here and there really going to make a difference on a dayhike? If so, what difference will it make and is it worth it to give up a few niceties and safety precautions to make it so?
I've seen comments on several forums where people won't pack safety items such as cell phones, a pocket knife, all 10 of the "10 essentials", a gps, food, water, or whatever because they want to save weight, even on dayhikes. Seems to me that if those few ounces make that much of a difference on a day hike then there are other problems that need to be addressed. For instance...lose a few pounds around the waist (I know this from first hand experience), get in better shape (ditto), chose your hikes better (distance. elevation gain, trail/off trail, etc.). Taking on more risk to save a few ounces doesn't seem worth it or necessary. Are their priorities in the right place? Are they that close to the edge that they can't carry a few extra ounces of safety?
Are a few ounces going to make the difference between going 25 miles/13 peaks in a day versus 22 miles and 12 peaks? Or 14 miles/1 peak versus 12 miles/0 peaks?
I'm 6' 1" 215 lbs and if I carry 20 lbs or 25 lbs (an extra 2 liters of water) I don't notice the difference - even on a 20 mile/4000' hike. I might be ever so slightly more tired, but certainly not a deal breaker. Packing super lightweight isn't going to make me capable of Rick Kent/Bob Burd/Travis type of achievements...getting in shape will (yeah right - in my dreams!).
Any thoughts on why or why bother going ultra-lightweight?
Ultralight or not for dayhikes?
It helps on more technical climbs, where balance and not falling are more important. 8) That, and having more equipment to carry, protection, ropes, etc.
I will not go out without a knife (oh noes111!!!1) and some form of communication, like a cellphone. I agree with you. Maybe more folks should join the military and see what it's like to carry 80lbs of useless crap on your back for 25 miles, only to have to do something stupid and go back.
My own version of going lightweight typically has to do with either leaving a tent home and just going with the bivy bag, or just bringing my axe and leaving the trekking poles at home (which I almost always do).
I will not go out without a knife (oh noes111!!!1) and some form of communication, like a cellphone. I agree with you. Maybe more folks should join the military and see what it's like to carry 80lbs of useless crap on your back for 25 miles, only to have to do something stupid and go back.
My own version of going lightweight typically has to do with either leaving a tent home and just going with the bivy bag, or just bringing my axe and leaving the trekking poles at home (which I almost always do).
Maybe ultralight is for those trail runner dudes? Most of them seem to just be carrying a couple of water bottles and a protein bar. Some of them don't even have a backpack so they can't really carry that much stuff.
The rest of us dayhikers all carry a pack so it seems like a given to carry basic safety equipment. It doesn't really weigh all that much or take up that much space. I carry a ziplock bag of emergency gear (basic first aid, compass, signal mirror, firestarter, and space blanket) that I throw in my daypack each time I head out. I have never had to use anything from that ziplock bag but it only weighs a pound or two so I always carry it. I also carry a cellphone, sunscreen, GPS and a Benchmade knife. I use to carry that knife in my emergency ziplock bag but I realize that won't help me if I get attacked by a mountain lion. So I now clip it to my hip.
The rest of us dayhikers all carry a pack so it seems like a given to carry basic safety equipment. It doesn't really weigh all that much or take up that much space. I carry a ziplock bag of emergency gear (basic first aid, compass, signal mirror, firestarter, and space blanket) that I throw in my daypack each time I head out. I have never had to use anything from that ziplock bag but it only weighs a pound or two so I always carry it. I also carry a cellphone, sunscreen, GPS and a Benchmade knife. I use to carry that knife in my emergency ziplock bag but I realize that won't help me if I get attacked by a mountain lion. So I now clip it to my hip.
I always carry my own variation of the 10 essentials. In a small zippered bag, I carry a whistle, waterproof matches, a firestarter, small headlamp with extra batteries, a pen with duct tape wrapped around it, and iodine tablets. In a separate ziplock baggie, I carry a small first aid that includes scissors and medications (ibuprofen, benedryl). The other essentials I always carry are knife, compass, topo map, rain jacket, sunglasses, sunscreen, and some gel packs to be used as emergency food. Of course, water, food and a warm jacket. This is the basic package for non-winter conditions.
In the winter, I would add wool cap and fleece gloves.
I sometimes take my cell phone and/or GPS but do not consider these essentials.
I never try to second-guess whether I should leave any of the above even on a short day hike. They're always in my day pack. Like someone above said, work on your conditioning if the extra weight of emergency items is a problem or you perceive it as such.
In the winter, I would add wool cap and fleece gloves.
I sometimes take my cell phone and/or GPS but do not consider these essentials.
I never try to second-guess whether I should leave any of the above even on a short day hike. They're always in my day pack. Like someone above said, work on your conditioning if the extra weight of emergency items is a problem or you perceive it as such.
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Terry Morse
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:55 pm
When I weighed 225 pounds, I would carry a heavy filled up pack for dayhikes. It was never a big deal since I figured that it was better conditioning carrying a lot of weight.
Now that I weigh 150, I try to carry the least possible and still be safe and comfortable. I have even changed my hiking "uniform", to cut down on weight. There are a lot of good websites that specialize in lightweight gear & clothing, and I find that Go-Lite & Montbell make the best quality and lightest gear available.
Now that I weigh 150, I try to carry the least possible and still be safe and comfortable. I have even changed my hiking "uniform", to cut down on weight. There are a lot of good websites that specialize in lightweight gear & clothing, and I find that Go-Lite & Montbell make the best quality and lightest gear available.
Good point Terry. I suspect that the weight of ones pack as a percentage of your body or total weight is the issue when it comes to whether it has an effect on hikes. Most discussions about pack weight that I see involve absolute values (40 lbs, 20 lbs, or whatever) and I wonder if percentage of total weight would be a more "universal" and meaningful metric to consider.
Long ago I remember reading that as a rule of thumb, a quarter of your body weight was a "comfortable" backpack weight and a third was considered "heavy". I recall long ago sometimes at 165 lbs carrying 65-70 pound packs (not enjoyable but good for 1-2 weeks out). Nowadays at 190 lbs I feel my pack heavy if over 40 pounds! Go figure. But if you think about stuff to bring; a stove, water bottle, compass, etc, they weigh the same whether you weigh 100 or 200 lbs so in just carrying the basics, a smaller person will carry more of a percentage of their body weight 
than a large person. 
As a search and rescue person, I cringe when I hear people talking about going out super lightweight and then running into trouble and then me getting called out at night as a volunteer to rescue their freezing butt. One of the problems with the original "10 essentials" list is that shelter was not one of them. You can go ~4 minutes without oxygen, ~4 hours without shelter (nasty conditions), ~4 days without water, and ~4 weeks without food. Back in the days of woodcraft, one could make a shelter with their 6" sheath knife but try that with a 2" pocketknife. A simple 8x10' nylon tarp is so functional (sun, rain, snow, signaling, etc).
As a searcher, I used to have four packs; a large fanny pack for initial tracking for a few hours, a large day pack for overnight, an internal frame for 3-5 days and a larger one for wintertime. My fanny pack essentially contained a modified "10 essentials" that included shelter of some type. I don't know about others, but if it rains (even a brief 30minute to hour summer thunder storm, I prefer staying dry under a tarp than putting on a rain jacket, but that's just me.
than a large person. As a search and rescue person, I cringe when I hear people talking about going out super lightweight and then running into trouble and then me getting called out at night as a volunteer to rescue their freezing butt. One of the problems with the original "10 essentials" list is that shelter was not one of them. You can go ~4 minutes without oxygen, ~4 hours without shelter (nasty conditions), ~4 days without water, and ~4 weeks without food. Back in the days of woodcraft, one could make a shelter with their 6" sheath knife but try that with a 2" pocketknife. A simple 8x10' nylon tarp is so functional (sun, rain, snow, signaling, etc).
As a searcher, I used to have four packs; a large fanny pack for initial tracking for a few hours, a large day pack for overnight, an internal frame for 3-5 days and a larger one for wintertime. My fanny pack essentially contained a modified "10 essentials" that included shelter of some type. I don't know about others, but if it rains (even a brief 30minute to hour summer thunder storm, I prefer staying dry under a tarp than putting on a rain jacket, but that's just me.
Hi Terry,
Are you a super ultralite hiker? I cring in private and on the net to help educate (?) but am very nice to people on missions; give them food, water, even clothing out of my pack, carry stuff for them if need be, even help carry them, even you if need be and do it for free and with a smile Gotta love you Terry.
ps and I hope I never run into you..."I get some strange looks from people, cause they tend to make a person look like a terrorist with part of the face covered up." But seriously, I also carry "neck gaitors" for myself and to give to others, I think they're great!
Are you a super ultralite hiker? I cring in private and on the net to help educate (?) but am very nice to people on missions; give them food, water, even clothing out of my pack, carry stuff for them if need be, even help carry them, even you if need be and do it for free and with a smile
Gotta love you Terry.ps and I hope I never run into you..."I get some strange looks from people, cause they tend to make a person look like a terrorist with part of the face covered up."
But seriously, I also carry "neck gaitors" for myself and to give to others, I think they're great!-
Terry Morse
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:55 pm
Rick, the only thing lightweight about me is my own weight.
But seriously, people always ask me why I carry so much in my pack. A wise guy once asked me, "You got a kitchen sink in there too?" I like to carry anything necessary to keep warm & safe in the event I have to spend the night somewhere ouside. I'm even thinking about geting one of those "Spot Messenger" satellite things. I know it's dumb, but I do hike alone some times.
Funny about the neck gaiter thing; Early this morning, I was hiking in Towsley Canyon near Santa Clarita. It was 41 degrees and windy, so I had my neck gaiter pulled up over my nose. I came across a woman I had seen before, and she asked if I was hiding from the law. I told her yes, and not to mention that she had seen me!
But seriously, people always ask me why I carry so much in my pack. A wise guy once asked me, "You got a kitchen sink in there too?" I like to carry anything necessary to keep warm & safe in the event I have to spend the night somewhere ouside. I'm even thinking about geting one of those "Spot Messenger" satellite things. I know it's dumb, but I do hike alone some times.
Funny about the neck gaiter thing; Early this morning, I was hiking in Towsley Canyon near Santa Clarita. It was 41 degrees and windy, so I had my neck gaiter pulled up over my nose. I came across a woman I had seen before, and she asked if I was hiding from the law. I told her yes, and not to mention that she had seen me!
Hey Terry, let's open up a climbing backpacking store. Between everything in your pack and in mine, I think we might carry more than a REI store (I worked part time for them for 6 years)...minus all the bike stuff and the running stuff and the travel luggage stuff, and the...need I say more?
I must be real dumb cause over my life, maybe 80% of my climbs and hikes, both summer and winter, have been solo...I've had a lot of jobs where I worked weekends.
So why do I carry a custom made 3-person bivy bag, two or three tarps, multiple hats, gloves/mits, headlamps/flashlights, two radios and a cell phone, etc? For those that don't. It's a habit I'm trying to break in my "golden years".
Between everything in your pack and in mine, I think we might carry more than a REI store (I worked part time for them for 6 years)...minus all the bike stuff and the running stuff and the travel luggage stuff, and the...need I say more?I must be real dumb cause over my life, maybe 80% of my climbs and hikes, both summer and winter, have been solo...I've had a lot of jobs where I worked weekends.
So why do I carry a custom made 3-person bivy bag, two or three tarps, multiple hats, gloves/mits, headlamps/flashlights, two radios and a cell phone, etc? For those that don't. It's a habit I'm trying to break in my "golden years".
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Terry Morse
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:55 pm
Did you guys see that Rick K. just did "El Picacho Del Diablo" in Baja as a dayhike?
The whole story is on Bob Burd's website.
These guys are monsters!!!!!!
The whole story is on Bob Burd's website.
These guys are monsters!!!!!!
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Terry Morse
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:55 pm
Sorry, I didn't think to post a link to the story. Here it is:Terry Morse wrote:Did you guys see that Rick K. just did "El Picacho Del Diablo" in Baja as a dayhike?
http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_reports ... blo_1.html
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Terry Morse
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:55 pm
Picacho has always held a special fascination for me, although I've never climbed it.
I have a VCR tape from the early 90's made by Ron Jones of the Sierra Club which documents a climb he made with several other people. They went up an east side canyon and he held a video camera the entire time. I'm thinking of getting it transfered to a dvd, because I don't even have my VCR hooked up anymore. It's pretty neat to watch.
I have a VCR tape from the early 90's made by Ron Jones of the Sierra Club which documents a climb he made with several other people. They went up an east side canyon and he held a video camera the entire time. I'm thinking of getting it transfered to a dvd, because I don't even have my VCR hooked up anymore. It's pretty neat to watch.