IHC to Bighorn Ridge 07/14/10

[cougarmagic]

All these great photos of bighorn sheep lately had me all jealous and insecure. What kind of an animal tracker has never seen a bighorn in the wild? One who is too lazy to hike uphill much!

Well F that. Today I set out with Jane and our trusty mascot Archie to see if this Ontario Peak bighorn bonanza was for real.

{warning - rant} I had called the Baldy Visitor Center yesterday to find out their hours, what we needed to do to get a permit, and if dogs were allowed past the wilderness boundary. Yeah, no problem, open at 8am, come on up.

Except the gate will be locked and no one will be there, even at 8:30. Oh...did we not mention that???

So the first business of the day was a passive aggressive note. Jane stopped me from adding a helpful suggestion of where the ranger ought to put said Adventure Pass. (I am not a fan)



The hike up was lovely. Shade and breezes made the heat wave disappear.

Jane:


We didn't take many pics on the way up. Once above the tree line, Archie got a bit warm, so he and Jane took a break in the shade just above Kelly Camp while I hiked ahead to find a good trail camera location.



I found something great, and am really excited - can't wait to see what I get! (But will have to wait a few weeks)

But even better - as we hiked back down, I caught some movement out of the corner of my eye, and sure enough there was a ram in the distance keeping an eye on us. We watched each other for a few minutes, then Jane and I tried to get a little closer, but of course he bolted. We figure he is a young ram, still without a harem, as he was quite alone.





Back toward the cars, we stopped at an attractive swimming hole, only to find it ice cold - too cold for anything more than a quick dip of tired feet.


get me outta here!


And no NON on my car, so the note must have worked!

[asbufra]

Quick, call Nelson and tell him we found his sheep.
It's like a friggin petting zoo up there. Glad you saw one..I wish I could get up there more often especially on a weekday.

I read somewhere that the San Gabriel herd had an estimated 200 sheep, in a fairly small range. I read somewhere else the mountain lions are decimating the heard because all the bushes make it too easy for a mountain lion to sneak up on them. I did see lots of bushes. Did you see any signs of mountain lions?

[cougarmagic]

especially on a weekday.

Yep - it was nice. There were just a few people on our way to the saddle, and on the way back down. No one but two guys training for Whitney above the sadde.

I read somewhere that the San Gabriel herd had an estimated 200 sheep, in a fairly small range. I read somewhere else the mountain lions are decimating the heard because all the bushes make it too easy for a mountain lion to sneak up on them. I did see lots of bushes. Did you see any signs of mountain lions?

When I participated in the bighorn survey two years ago (and saw zero sheep), one of the guys said that the black bear population had exploded in the San Gabriels in the past few years. The bears can bully mountain lions away from their deer kills. So rather than go to the effort to kill a deer, only to have bears steal it, many lions have turned to bighorn sheep instead, which live in terrain that is rougher than the bears like.

Sounds like a complicated thing to figure out, but who knows...they definitely have a problem in Anza Borrego with lions killing sheep. Once one lion figures out how, they teach the kittens to hunt them instead of deer, and it has put a real dent in the population there. They are actively studying this right now. Then the question becomes...do you thin the (protected) lion population to protect endangered bighorn?? Let 'nature' take its course?

I did not see any lion tracks or scat today. It's tough up there though, because the forest is so open and easy to travel, they can really go anywhere they want. At lower elevations, they're easier to track since canyon bottoms and ridgelines are the best (and sometimes the only) options for them.

[Hikin_Jim]

All these great photos of bighorn sheep lately had me all jealous and insecure. What kind of an animal tracker has never seen a bighorn in the wild? One who is too lazy to hike uphill much!

Well, I suppose that is one down side of NHPS.

But even better - as we hiked back down, I caught some movement out of the corner of my eye, and sure enough there was a ram in the distance keeping an eye on us. We watched each other for a few minutes, then Jane and I tried to get a little closer, but of course he bolted. We figure he is a young ram, still without a harem, as he was quite alone.

Chica, he was givin' you da eye.

Dang, I've been gypped. I was up there a few weeks ago and didn't see a single one.

So, with respect to the lions eating the sheep thing, do they prefer the sheep to the deer because the sheep are easier hunting? Or is it that the sheep simply have more meat and therefore fewer hunts are necessary in order for the lions to eat?

HJ

[cougarmagic]

Yesterday was also an NHPS success, skipping both Ontario and Bighorn peaks. This was important to me, having recently fallen onto the peak-bagging wagon. Jane is already on my case to go back and do the three Ts though.

So, with respect to the lions eating the sheep thing, do they prefer the sheep to the deer because the sheep are easier hunting? Or is it that the sheep simply have more meat and therefore fewer hunts are necessary in order for the lions to eat?

Well, I think there are a couple theories. They "should" always prefer mule deer. There are more deer than sheep, sheep are larger, tougher, and armed with horns, and live in more open areas where ambush attacks are harder to pull off. They are much harder for lions to hunt than deer. So for lions to switch their main prey, the reasons would be a decline in deer population (due to disease, hunting, or loss of habitat - development, fire, etc), or in the thieving bear theory, the lions learn that bears are less likely to come steal their kill - whatever the type - if the terrain is tough to maneuver and they can hide the kill in some rocky outcrop on a cliff somewhere. Just happens to be that bighorn are the largest prey animal that lives in those places, so they are the default target.

There is also the possibility that all this is way to complicated - that lions simply take whatever they can get. The idea that they exclusively eat mule deer is kind of iffy - when a mountain lion eats a rabbit, skunk, or even coyote, there isn't going to be a pile of bones for some biologist to find later. As our bighorn population recovers and grows, the number of them taken by mountain lions will, too.

[PackerGreg]

Don't worry about the permit next time. These days, a ranger in the forest is a much more rare sighting than one of a Big Horn.

[Hikin_Jim]

Don't worry about the permit next time. These days, a ranger in the forest is a much more rare sighting than one of a Big Horn.

Last time I was in Icehouse Canyon (month an a half ago?), there was a ranger near the lower junction of the Chapman and Icehouse Canyon trails. We weren't in the wilderness, so he wasn't checking permits, but I was pretty surprised to see a ranger that far up a trail.

I did meet one ranger once over on top of Waterman maybe a year ago. I told him that I was shocked to see a ranger out on the trail. He laughed, and said something like "yeah, I know we have that reputation, but I'm not like that."

Not one but two ranger sitings away from a road in the Angeles in about a year's time. Am I jinxed or something?

HJ

[Hikin_Jim]

So, with respect to the lions eating the sheep thing, do they prefer the sheep to the deer because the sheep are easier hunting? Or is it that the sheep simply have more meat and therefore fewer hunts are necessary in order for the lions to eat?

Well, I think there are a couple theories...

Thanks for your explanation(s). Odd as this may sound (cougars being something that Americans have been around for a lot of years), but I get the sense there's a lot we don't know about their habits.

As our bighorn population recovers and grows, the number of them taken by mountain lions will, too.

So, is it confirmed that the Angeles Bighorn population is growing? How are other ranges in the area doing?

I used to see bighorns quite a bit more before the mountain lion hunting ban was put into place. After the ban, I stopped seeing/hearing reports of them. Now, it seems like sightings are on the uptick, which is highly cool. I've always thought they were the most magnificent creatures in our local mountains -- although I saw a beautiful golden-cinnamon bear (Ursus americanus) that was pretty darn neat over in the Lytle Creek area last month.

HJ

[Mike P]

As our bighorn population recovers and grows, the number of them taken by mountain lions will, too.

So, is it confirmed that the Angeles Bighorn population is growing? How are other ranges in the area doing?

My understanding, as of a couple of years ago, was that the eastern San Gabriel herds were declining. I thought they peaked after the mid 70's Baldy fire (1975?) which took out lots of trees. The fire opened habitat for the sheep and there numbers were up in the 700's in the decade after the fire. Since then their numbers have plummeted to the 300's or so. (Someone please correct me if I am off-base here. I don't have the count numbers at my fingertips.) The sheep hate forest cover because they can't see predators as quickly. Lions love forest cover... Also, I suspect the mountain lion hunting ban had the unintended consequence of increasing sheep predation/mortality. (No data to back up this assertion...)

I used to see bighorns quite a bit more before the mountain lion hunting ban was put into place. After the ban, I stopped seeing/hearing reports of them. Now, it seems like sightings are on the uptick, which is highly cool. I've always thought they were the most magnificent creatures in our local mountains -- although I saw a beautiful golden-cinnamon bear (Ursus americanus) that was pretty darn neat over in the Lytle Creek area last month.

HJ

My guess: The Station fire will open more deer habitat and hopefully satisfy mountain lion appetites. Anecdotally, I have seen much more deer in the Glendora area in the years since the Williams and Padua fires. Coincidentally (or consequently) mountain lion sightings seem to be up in my area as well. Obviously, the reasons for fluctuations in wildlife populations can be complicated and involve more than just fire...

[Ze Hiker]

I did meet one ranger once over on top of Waterman maybe a year ago. I told him that I was shocked to see a ranger out on the trail. He laughed, and said something like "yeah, I know we have that reputation, but I'm not like that."


HJ

yeah that was probably the little bully ranger. at least he gets out

[Hikin_Jim]

I did meet one ranger once over on top of Waterman maybe a year ago. I told him that I was shocked to see a ranger out on the trail. He laughed, and said something like "yeah, I know we have that reputation, but I'm not like that."


HJ

yeah that was probably the little bully ranger. at least he gets out

This guy was pretty short of stature. So you've seen one out too?

[Hikin_Jim]

As our bighorn population recovers and grows, the number of them taken by mountain lions will, too.

So, is it confirmed that the Angeles Bighorn population is growing? How are other ranges in the area doing?

My understanding, as of a couple of years ago, was that the eastern San Gabriel herds were declining.

Will the real sheep count please stand up? So, what's the real story here. Hmm. Who would know something like that ... This looks like a job for Cougarmagic!

Also, I suspect the mountain lion hunting ban had the unintended consequence of increasing sheep predation/mortality. (No data to back up this assertion...)

I've often suspected that myself just based on my own personal observations. I wonder if there's any hard data on that?

HJ

[cougarmagic]

Will the real sheep count please stand up? So, what's the real story here. Hmm. Who would know something like that ...

Prey species are so pedestrian...

All I can find is this:

Fortunately, about 100 other volunteers scattered from Cattleman Canyon above Ontario to the Lytle Creek area, reported seeing 50 sheep. A helicopter crew that scoured the region counted 202 of the elusive animals.

That number was encouraging to Jeff Villepique, a state Department of Fish and Game wildlife biologist.

"That's the largest number seen in over a decade," Villepique said. "I am optimistic that this preliminary data indicates we do have a growing population."

An official population estimate won't be finished until Friday, but Villepique said he is hopeful it will be higher than 2007's estimate of 308. Bad weather cancelled the sheep count last year.

from this article:

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stor ... 96358.html

It's from 2009. I don't know why I can't find anything from 2010....

There is a private organization that is dedicated to the sheep - somewhere I have a business card. I was going to help them out with a camera for a while, but the places they wanted to go were always out in the Mojave and far away, so I never followed up. But I'll try to find it, and maybe get the real sheep dip from them.

As for more lions = less sheep - I also think observations by those of us who spend a lot of time in these mountains are very valuable. We just "know", after a while. Like you said HJ - you can be a "fake scientist' and still have the goods! Citizen astronomers find new planets...so hikers should have some respected input on wildlife.
[/quote]

[Ze Hiker]

I did meet one ranger once over on top of Waterman maybe a year ago. I told him that I was shocked to see a ranger out on the trail. He laughed, and said something like "yeah, I know we have that reputation, but I'm not like that."


HJ

yeah that was probably the little bully ranger. at least he gets out

This guy was pretty short of stature. So you've seen one out too?

yup.

[Hikin_Jim]

yeah that was probably the little bully ranger. at least he gets out

This guy was pretty short of stature. So you've seen one out too?

yup.

And what, he's got short man syndrome? (he's a bully you said, yes?)

HJ

[Hikin_Jim]

There is a private organization that is dedicated to the sheep - somewhere I have a business card. I was going to help them out with a camera for a while, but the places they wanted to go were always out in the Mojave and far away, so I never followed up. But I'll try to find it, and maybe get the real sheep dip from them.

Thanks, CM, if you find anything out, I'd be most interested in hearing about it.

HJ

[HikeUp]

More lions, less sheep, less lions, more sheep...hmmm...kind of a feedback loop if ya ask me. Which came first...the prey or the predator?

[Ze Hiker]

And what, he's got short man syndrome? (he's a bully you said, yes?)

HJ

not trying to bash anyone but first time I met him we had an altercation due to such a syndrome, but luckily cooler heads prevailed (i.e. my friends prevailed). saw him a again another time and he seemingly didn't remember me, but was cordial.

[Taco]

The Former Marine? Met him on the summit of Baldy when everyone did the SAR. Same dood?

[cougarmagic]

More cougars vs sheep:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... ative.html

When it became clear that mountain lions were culling sheep, the Arizona Game and Fish Department devised a policy to remove the big cats if they killed too many. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service wanted to study the issue more, and the state agreed to a temporary halt in lion executions. But the yearlong timeout ended last fall, after a single lion racked up 15 sheep kills in seven months.

State officials say they are balancing the needs of both species, neither of which is threatened or endangered under federal law. Their conclusion: The Kofa mountains are more important for the sheep than the cats.

[Hikin_Jim]

Good article. Thanks, CM.

a single lion racked up 15 sheep kills in seven months.

Yeah, I guess that could cut down on the sheep population now couldn't it.

HJ