questions on boots and socks

yobtaf · Post by **yobtaf** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:03 am

Howdy again from the noob.
I have a pair of cheap red head boots that just suck. I have worn them for about 65 miles and the soles are cracked and thin and I can feel even the smallest rock. I went up to Monrovia falls yesterday after work and they were miserable. My question is this. With those boots and light hiking socks my feet around my toes are so dirty. I want to get something that wont wear out as fast. will something like this be a good choice? And will it leave my feet dirty.

any suggestions would be great. the boots I had were $24 on sale I know you get what you pay for, just went cheap to see if I wanted to hike and now know its something I want to keep doing. Also I am still what the Dr's call on the heavy side so I want a mid high boot to help around the ankles. Not to sure if a shoe would be the way to go for a plump person.

TIA

Post by **Taco** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:35 am

Not a big fan of Merrells myself, but I do have a pair of Phaser Peak 3d's that were real comfy and are in great condition after a few hundred miles of hikes.

I stopped wearing them after I found out that hiking boots aren't necessary, at least in most cases.

For your ankle concern... do you roll your ankles often? Do you have any ankle problems that necessitate a boot over a shoe? I ask because trail runners are, IMHO, really honestly superior to any boot for most dry conditions. I stopped rolling my ankles when I started wearing trail runners.

Hope this helps.

yobtaf · Post by **yobtaf** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:57 am

I wouldn't say I roll them easy, its probably more of a concern than anything. Do you use the same type of light hiking sock with the trail runners? I'm not really whining about the dirty feet, just wondering if that is a normal thing. I take my socks into the shower now after I go out just to soak and flush them out. I know what I'm looking for is just for day hikes not carrying any weight except for the belly, so the trail runners should fit the bill.
Thanks Taco
Any others?

Post by **Taco** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:22 am

Cool deal.

I wear Smartwool socks... dunno what model, but they're olive drab, and kinda mid-weight. I wear them as an inner sock in winter as well. If it's just a hike up Baldy or something non-bushwhacky etc etc, sometimes I wear regular white cotton socks. I don't think my feet get as dirty with the Smartwool socks, though I usually find a way to get really dirty regardless.

My first trail runners were Salomon AXA Pro 3D's, which were good, but they're mostly mesh, so dirt got in bigtime, and the outers wore out within one year. Got a pair of Merrell Chameleons afterwards, and they started falling apart pretty soon. Comfy, but the outsoles peeled off, and the insides bunched up at the toe for whatever reason. Ditched those POS's, got a pair of Goretex XA Pro 3D GTX's. Same as first pair, but goretex. Muy goodo. Great for winter, too. Wore those out, got some Salomon Speedcross 2's, which I still use now, despite their lack of any sole pattern. They're OK. Real lightweight. Gonna resole them with climbing rubber.

So...

-Salomon Speedcross 2's are my fav's for dry weather (despite them being made for wet/winter, they're not water resistant in the slightest). They also excel on 4-5th class stuff, 'cept edging.
-Salomon XA Pro 3D GTX for winter/wet.

Lotsa folks don't like Salomon, though. I've yet to have a negative experience in my three pairs of shoes. I dig the kevlar quick lacing system bigtime.

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:21 am

I have had a pair of those Merrels for almost two years, and they serve me well on hikes in the coastal foothills. I also wear them on the street when I am walking the dog, etc (I have them on right now).

But I don't use them in the mountains as I have tender feet and prefer to wear my mountaineering boots with a shank. I think if I wore them regularly on mountain trails they would only last a season or so.

edenooch · Post by **edenooch** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:16 am

merrells are the best thing i have done for my feet. other than hiking socks!
My last pair of chameleons took me hiking every weekend for the last 2 years till i killed them at charleston. I got a new pair of the same shoe it now has better tread/grip and gore-tex.

yobtaf · Post by **yobtaf** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:04 pm

Thanks guys

I will be looking at those and the trail runner idea Taco is talking about. Ill see how they feel and if I'm not into them just yet Ill get some type of boot like the Merrells.
So the dirty feet thing is just kinda par for the course than, no big deal I just thought I had some kinda dirt magnet in my feet.

Kit Fox · Post by **Kit Fox** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:14 pm

I love my set of Merrells. I spent an extra $30 bucks and bought a pair of Superfeet Green insoles. Hiking comfort has increased over 50% .

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:42 pm

Kit Fox wrote:I love my set of Merrells. I spent an extra $30 bucks and bought a pair of Superfeet Green insoles. Hiking comforted has increased over 50% .

Gotta agree. That combination has made my feet happier than they've been in years.

hvydrt · Post by **hvydrt** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:38 pm

How long does everyone get out of a pair of boots? I seem to wear them out in 12 months, maybe 18 if I am lucky. Any recommendations on a boot that last 2 or more years.

Post by **Taco** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:40 am

My Scarpa Charmoz (winter only) boots need new soles, but are in otherwise fine condition. Only use 'em in winter condition, though. Sole is that Vibram "Climbing Zone" stuff on all light mountaineering boots. Been wearing them since 07 or so.

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:29 am

hvydrt wrote:How long does everyone get out of a pair of boots? I seem to wear them out in 12 months, maybe 18 if I am lucky. Any recommendations on a boot that last 2 or more years.

Get a sewn welt and your boots will last a lifetime.

Mine have lasted 27 years:

hvydrt · Post by **hvydrt** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:54 pm

Whats a sewn welt? Do any boots come with that, or you get that when you replace the soles?

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:12 am

hvydrt wrote:Whats a sewn welt? Do any boots come with that, or you get that when you replace the soles?

The welt is where the upper meets the sole (there's a midsole in there somewhere, too). Traditionally, welts were sewn, that is, the upper was sewn to the sole. In the last 20 years or so, cemented (glued) welts have grown in popularity, especially with lower-end trail boots.

In general, you cannot resole cemented welt boots. Once the sole is worn, you trash the boot (or, more likely in my experience, the cement degrades and the sole literally falls off the boot). Some boot manufacturers may resole their cemented welt boots if you send the boots to them, but I've tried this and there's always some reason why they can't do it with your boots.

Today I only see sewn welts on higher-end mountaineering boots, but I'm not always sure. Back in the day, the style of welt (Norwegian welt, Goodyear welt, etc) was one of the important specifications for a boot; now I can't find the welt on the specifications charts. The children who work at REI look at you funny when you mention the welt. You used to be able to see the type of welt by looking at it; now even some sewn welt boots have a layer of rubber covering the welt so it looks like a cemented welt.

Whether any of this is important or not is open to discussion. Personally, I like to buy a product that will last me a long time and that can be refurbished when necessary, so I prefer a sewn welt (the only other real advantage of a sewn welt is the sole will not come off without plenty of warning; I have seen cemented welt boots disintegrate in the middle of a hike, and I am sure most of us have seen those boot soles laying by the sides of trails and wondered how the hell the people who left them behind got out).

On the other hand modern consumer and product development philosophy seems to favor disposable everything. Use it up and throw it away and buy another. The advantages of this approach are, a) You don't have to worry about boot welts; and b) you are always using the latest and greatest technology because you are replacing your gear periodically.

I hope to replace my boots this year. After 27 years and two resoles, they have had a pretty good run.

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:08 am

the "Last" used by the manufacturer has a big effect on the comfort/fit for the wearer

I prefer Merrells but they many not be for you....They're certainly not for everybody

I am rough on my footwear and mine seem to last about 6-12 months, I average roughly 24 miles per week so I get about 600-1200 or so miles out of a pair

For hiking around here I find ventilation is important it keeps your feet cooler thus it reduces sweating which diminishes the chance of blisters

There are only two types of hikers those who have had blisters and those who will get blisters, it's a simple fact of life.

With the ventilation you get dirt, your feet will get filthy. Oh well, that's life in the food chain.

One common tactic for blister prevention is changing socks, moisture is your enemy

I highly recommend "Fixing your Feet" By John Vonhof

This info is hard won from experience of people in the outdoors, on how to prevent and treat foot problems

Regards
Matt

yobtaf · Post by **yobtaf** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:24 am

Thanks guys. A lot of good info. My dad and I were talking about this a bit and he said the same as what Simon is saying about the sewn welt, but that would be down the road for me. I think from trying on the Merrells and a few others the last couple days, I'm kinda set on the Merrells. They feel so comfy. And from what I gather, REI has a 100% satisfaction guarantee so looks like they will be getting my business unless I hear different.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:08 pm

I've had a pair of "Norwegian Welt" boots like Simonov's since high school. They have full grain (not top grain or split grain, full grain) leather. Still have 'em, but my feet have gotten bigger since then, and I wear custom inserts which don't fit. Hard to find 'em now, but MEC (http://www.mec.ca) was carrying 'em last I checked. Downside: generally very heavy.

Trail runners work pretty well, but I don't like 'em for XC or spring conditions (wet snow). With XC they vacuum up rocks. Watched it happen. A rock some 6" away just flew into 'em.

Got a pair of Lowa Trekkers right now. All leather midweight backpacking boot. Feet stay clean. Not good on waterproofing (too many freaking seams), so not good in spring conds. Comfortable. Good on XC. Reasonably good on edging. Did very well in traversing rock when friends were having trouble. Now just over 2 years old.

The rand (that rubber thing that covers the welt), is starting to peel. @#@$%! Good boots, but the rand is what will probably force me to replace them, and after only 2 years. Grrr. Tried seam grip on the rand: fail. Full leather boots should last longer than 2 years. May pop by A16 and see what my options are.

EnFuego · Post by **EnFuego** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:34 pm

hvydrt wrote:How long does everyone get out of a pair of boots? I seem to wear them out in 12 months, maybe 18 if I am lucky. Any recommendations on a boot that last 2 or more years.

I guess it would depend on the mileadge you put on them, and the terrain you hike most.

I currently have a pair a La Sportiva Trekking boots (can't remember the orginal name but this was the replacement boot: La Sportiva Trango Trek 347 Micro EVO GTX GRIGIO) and have had them for about 7 years. I would say I have approximately 250 miles on them, and there is nothing wrong with them. Tread is still good, leather still good, and so is the rand. The only thing I did last year was put in a pair of superfeet as I wore out the original in sole.

Before that, I had another pair of La Sportiva something or other but they wore out in less than 12 months. I think because i use them on trail with heavy talus, water crossings, etc. I abused them severely.