San Jacinto Peak 7/11/09

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:33 am

This was a poll. These haven't been imported. Sorry.

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:07 pm

I don't know why you would think you would need a permit to approach San Jacinto from the tram but not from other trailheads.

I have long noticed state park rangers being a lot snarkier than the US Forest Service people you encounter in the San Gabriels or San Berdoos (volunteers or otherwise).

mattmaxon · Post by **mattmaxon** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:26 pm

simonov wrote:I don't know why you would think you would need a permit to approach San Jacinto from the tram but not from other trailheads.

Never never got a permit...been there (the summit) 6 times or so. from the tram or otherwise.

Hiked through out the area and have never had a permit

simonov wrote:I have long noticed state park rangers being a lot snarkier than the US Forest Service people you encounter in the San Gabriels or San Berdoos (volunteers or otherwise).

This was an official gun toting "Green Shirt" otherwise I'd have told him to Fu&^$ off Barney!

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:47 pm

mattmaxon wrote:...what a friggin pain, have to drive to Idyllwild to get a permint have to drive back there after the hike so I can have a babysitter I don't need or want!

I just get the permits in advance via fax/mail. Not too big of a hassle. Getting the permit in Idyllwild and driving back? FAIL.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:59 pm

Jim, you've been able to get them to fax you your permit? I admit I've never asked them about it, but on the permit application they say they won't take telephone requests (only walk-in or snail mail with a SASE), so I figured they don't do fax. They sure don't make it easy to get a permit here. Driving to Idyllwild to get the permit when they open at 8am and then driving back is a PITA. I wish they had self-issue permits at that Forest Service fire station right outside the turn-off to Marion Mtn from the 243.

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:08 pm

20 years ago on my one and only hike up to San Jacinto, I wanted to start at the Black Mtn. TH. I drove up assuming I could pick up a self issue permit at the FS station near the turnoff for Black Mtn. Truck Trail (similar to what I had done a week or so earlier at Mill Creek for a Vivian Creek Trail permit). Obviously I was wrong, so instead of driving all the way into Idyllwild and back I went ahead and hiked without a permit.

On the way down I got a hiking ticket and had to go in front of a judge in Hemet a week or so later. He fined me $100 and put me on 1 year hiking probation. At least I knew a permit was needed and put a limited but good faith effort into getting one!

But at least I summited! Take that NHPS'ers!

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:13 pm

Tim wrote:Jim, you've been able to get them to fax you your permit?

Not exactly. I usually fax them the request and they mail me back a permit -- in the USDA area. For the State Park, I think they are mail only. Freaking stone age. Make sure it's on vellum with a wax seal with your family crest on it. Papyrus also acceptable.

In the SGW they will do two way fax. I sometimes get my permit faxed back to me same day. SGW seems a lot more progressive but still needs to build a permit web app.

HJ

edenooch · Post by **edenooch** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:27 pm

thats bs dude! we already pay for the adventure pass.
Time for cross country routes

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:59 pm

mattmaxon wrote:Never never got a permit...been there (the summit) 6 times or so. from the tram or otherwise.

When approaching from the tram, the signs saying you need a permit to proceed any farther are pretty hard to miss, assuming you are using the trail.

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:13 pm

HikeUp wrote:On the way down I got a hiking ticket and had to go in front of a judge in Hemet a week or so later. He fined me $100 and put me on 1 year hiking probation.

Wow - I have never known anyone who actually got a hiking ticket!! That's hilarious. Hiking probation - so you weren't supposed to hike for a year, or just not get caught without a proper permit again?

I got stopped on the Devil's slide (?) trail (back side of San J - it was years ago, I can't remember exactly where). I had no permit, but I lied to the ranger and told him the group I was hiking with had it, but they were about a mile up the trail from me. I felt pretty guilty about that, since he was actually very nice about it, and I did know I needed a permit ahead of time. (When I got there, all the permits were taken, but I had driven 2 hours to get there...you know the feeling..)

That instance aside, I personally believe in clear posting of rules - I should not have to do intensive research to find out these things. Especially since calling ranger stations usually results in misinformation anyway. (If they don't know, how should I??) But if posted, I'll respect the rules.

Matt - now look what you've done - you've gotten yourself put on a LIST!

You're a hiking outlaw.

Post by **Taco** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:41 pm

Next time I do Snow Creek, I want to make sure there's a Ranger up top. I'll have him prove he's a Ranger by sounding off with the Ranger Creed!

Betcha that'll put ya on a list for sure.

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:51 pm

cougarmagic wrote:Wow - I have never known anyone who actually got a hiking ticket!! That's hilarious. Hiking probation - so you weren't supposed to hike for a year, or just not get caught without a proper permit again?

I supposedly would have been in deep doodoo if caught without a permit again. I still laugh at the whole thing. Makes a good story I guess. Wish I would have saved the ticket.

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:30 pm

/**** NOT INTENDED TO IGNITE A FLAME WAR! ****/

Wilderness permits are intended to help preserve the designated wilderness areas by limiting the number of occupants and getting them to agree to common-sense regulations that promote this preservation. Whom amongst this group hasn't been disgusted by the abuse suffered by the San G's, San B's or San J's at the hands of inconsiderate, ignorant or malicious visitors? I agree that the Forest Service and related agencies should modernize and harmonize their permitting systems and policies. Personally, I don't mind requesting a wilderness permit and accepting my second choice of entry trailhead if the first is booked-up. I also don't mind including an entirely different hike in my plans should desired trails become unavailable. Out of curiosity what's the general consensus regarding these permits to enter Sheep Mountain Wilderness (Iron, Bridge to Nowhere, Allison Mine,etc)? I've found the permit pads full or missing on a few occasions. In retrospect, I probably should have gotten a permit to enter Cucamonga wilderness from Joe Elliot a few weeks back.

/**** REPEAT NOT INTENDED TO IGNITE A FLAME WAR! ****/

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:02 pm

HikeUp wrote: On the way down I got a hiking ticket and had to go in front of a judge in Hemet a week or so later. He fined me $100 and put me on 1 year hiking probation. At least I knew a permit was needed and put a limited but good faith effort into getting one!

Wow that's classic! 100 dollars 20 years ago, damn!

Man I don't know if we can invite you to the SGMDF meetup (whenever that happens), you might give us a bad name

May your punishment should be forcing you to hike with one certain hiker you may be annoyed with

Ze Hiker · Post by **Ze Hiker** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:04 pm

Elwood wrote:/**** NOT INTENDED TO IGNITE A FLAME WAR! ****/

Wilderness permits are intended to help preserve the designated wilderness areas by limiting the number of occupants and getting them to agree to common-sense regulations that promote this preservation. Whom amongst this group hasn't been disgusted by the abuse suffered by the San G's, San B's or San J's at the hands of inconsiderate, ignorant or malicious visitors? I agree that the Forest Service and related agencies should modernize and harmonize their permitting systems and policies. Personally, I don't mind requesting a wilderness permit and accepting my second choice of entry trailhead if the first is booked-up. I also don't mind including an entirely different hike in my plans should desired trails become unavailable. Out of curiosity what's the general consensus regarding these permits to enter Sheep Mountain Wilderness (Iron, Bridge to Nowhere, Allison Mine,etc)? I've found the permit pads full or missing on a few occasions. In retrospect, I probably should have gotten a permit to enter Cucamonga wilderness from Joe Elliot a few weeks back.

/**** REPEAT NOT INTENDED TO IGNITE A FLAME WAR! ****/

Wilderness permits are good, but if the reason to issue them is about quota, what's the point if no one is going to check?

With Sheep / Cucamonga, they don't check. I assume the other reason for having them is keeping track of who goes there in case someone gets hurt / lost etc...but that's more a benefit to the group. So if the group doesn't get a permit, it's their loss.

Yamaya · Post by **Yamaya** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:16 pm

Wow, this is the subject I wanted to ask. Do you ALWAYS get a wilderness permit?

I don't want to incriminate myself, but say someone I know very well

, everytime called FS to get one - except last two times. Why not last two times? Because prior to those two times, he called FS and permits were supposed to be posted outside. Twice in a row, he did not find them

.

I somewhere read FS's quota system is not very mathematically correct. Maybe a lot better than not having one at all

. NPS's system is not much different. When I higked Half Dome, I learned PCT thru hikers from either way can stay at Little Yosemite Valley. Theoretically one day there won't be any thru hikers, other day there could be an army of hikers.

At SJC they always checked my permit. SGW yes. San Gabriel never. Yosemite yes.

cougarmagic · Post by **cougarmagic** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:26 pm

At SJC they always checked my permit. SGW yes. San Gabriel never. Yosemite yes.

Do you need a permit to hike or stay overnight in the San Gabriel Wilderness??? Everyone hiking Twin Peaks would need a permit! (and I would be a repeat offender...!)

On Edit -

Wilderness Permits are not required for the San Gabriel Wilderness Area. You can enter the San Gabriel Wilderness on the following trails:
Bear Creek Trail - An eleven mile trail, with trailheads near Rincon and Coldbrook Ranger Stations, both on Highway 39.

Mt. Waterman Trail - A ten mile trail, from Three Points to Buckhorn, with a one mile side trail to Twin Peaks Saddle.

Devil's Canyon Trail - A four mile trail down into rugged Devil's Canyon.

From the Angeles NF website. I guess there are so few trails in there anyway, it's not too tough keeping people out.

RichardK · Post by **RichardK** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:46 pm

I find it amazing that there are armed state rangers on duty. I would be surprised if 10% of the Icehouse Canyon mob had a permit. I have been asked for a permit there 3 times in 12 years averaging 15 hikes a year. And then they were happily issuing field permits. Frankly, I would love to see some enforement rangers in Icehouse Canyon. They could plug the switchback cutters on the spot.

AlanK · Post by **AlanK** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:17 pm

RichardK wrote:Frankly, I would love to see some enforement rangers in Icehouse Canyon. They could plug the switchback cutters on the spot.

Careful what you wish for, Richard. The bodies would be piling up quickly!

Mike P · Post by **Mike P** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:18 pm

Elwood wrote:In retrospect, I probably should have gotten a permit to enter Cucamonga wilderness from Joe Elliot a few weeks back.

Elwood! Did I miss a trip report on your Cuc hike from Joe Elliott? Is the gate open or do you have to get a combo?

I've been wanting to do this hike for a while. The volunteer at Lytle Creek had coronary over the thought of me driving up to the Big Tree (or whatever its called) trailhead and said it was not allowed.

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:29 pm

Hey Mike P.:

I didn't exactly drive up

https://eispiraten.com/viewtopic.php?t=1604

Elwood

Post by **HikeUp** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:59 pm

Zé wrote:...you might give us a bad name

Isn't it way way way too late to worry about that?

Post by **Taco** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:56 pm

Elwood wrote:/**** NOT INTENDED TO IGNITE A FLAME WAR! ****/

/**** REPEAT NOT INTENDED TO IGNITE A FLAME WAR! ****/

j/k

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:21 am

Isn't he supposed to get a cookie first?