Wikipedia:WikiProject Mountains

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:38 pm

Maybe some of us should get together and use this project to clean up the pages on various San Gabriel Mountains. Most of them are crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... _Mountains

Post by **Taco** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:58 pm

Sounds like a good idea. I like doing this sorta stuff.

Team SGMDF cleanup crew?

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:38 pm

Post by **Taco** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:54 pm

Hikin_Jim wrote:DF?

Diskushun foarumz.

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:13 pm

DamOTclese wrote:Saint Gabriel is a Christanic undergod, according to mythology, an Archangel who is the son of the same gods that the Jesus mythos was a son to, making Gabriel the brother of Jesus and the San Gabriel Mountains the "Mountains of the son of god" which, if you've ever hiked the San Gabriels, seems appropriate enough. The demigod is also associated with telecommunications... Brass wind instrument, as I recall.

Lol. Is that whacky stuff what wikipedia says? Boy does it ever need cleaning up!

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:41 pm

DamOTclese wrote:...Saint Gabriel is part of contemporary lore. Hell, there was even a Twilight Zone episode that featured Saint Gabriel. Jack Clugman was taken under the wing of the archangel Gabriel after Clugman pawned his trumpet and, as I recall, deliberately walked in front of a speeding cement truck or something.

Contemporary sources do some weird stuff with angels and the like. I don't know if anyone cares, but the "authentic" Archangel Gabriel (i.e. as described by the original source, the Bible) was not a "demigod" (there are no demigods in Christianity), nor was he considered a "son of God." Angels are created beings (as opposed to offspring) that are subordinate to their creator. The Archangel Gabriel was a special angel that God used to deliver important messages. It was, for example, the Archangel Gabriel who came to Mary and told her that she would bear Jesus, God's one and only son, the foretold Messiah. Gabriel was also the one who came to the shepards (you know, shepards, wise men, the whole Nativity scene thing) and announced the birth of Jesus and directed them to go to the barn where Jesus was.

Anyway. Probably nobody cares about the details. I just thought I'd mention it because so many people I talk to don't know what Christianity really is. You wouldn't believe the things I've been told are "Christian" or "part of Christianity."

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:04 am

Hikin_Jim wrote: Anyway. Probably nobody cares about the details. I just thought I'd mention it because so many people I talk to don't know what Christianity really is. You wouldn't believe the things I've been told are "Christian" or "part of Christianity."

As an atheist who has studied the Bible at length, I find I know more about Christianity than virtually any Christian I have ever met. There are a lot of self-proclaimed Christians in the gun business. Go figure that.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, DamOTclese is right, this is a lot of work, more work than you might think. You can't just post stuff in Wikipedia because you know it to be true (based on, say, personal experience). There is a rule against what they call "original research" and everything has to be referenced. Obviously, this could be a real problem for people like us, whose familiarity with the mountains is mostly first-hand.

On the other hand, the Wikipedia's coverage of the San Gabriel Mountains is really crap, and could use some clean-up and filling out.

I want to do a little more research into the rules and see whether people can contribute in the capacity of "experts," using their own first-hand knowledge to fill out the entries. After all, it's hard to believe that Wikipedia's rules would prohibit James D. Watson, for example, from contributing to an article on DNA.

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:16 am

simonov wrote:
Hikin_Jim wrote: Anyway. Probably nobody cares about the details. I just thought I'd mention it because so many people I talk to don't know what Christianity really is. You wouldn't believe the things I've been told are "Christian" or "part of Christianity."
As an atheist who has studied the Bible at length, I find I know more about Christianity than virtually any Christian I have ever met. There are a lot of self-proclaimed Christians in the gun business. Go figure that.

Unfortunate but true.

However, the Bible was not meant to be read cover to cover. Historic context must be taken into account, as well as translation considerations. So if your reason for studying the Bible at length was to disprove it... While proof of the scriptures certainly has to be taken by faith, I would contend all other plausable explainations require more faith.

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:08 am

Bill wrote:So if your reason for studying the Bible at length was to disprove it... While proof of the scriptures certainly has to be taken by faith, I would contend all other plausable explainations require more faith.

My reason for studying it is because I believe all literate Westerners should be familiar with it.

This opinion, apparently, is not shared by most American Christians, who for the most part remain completely clueless about what the Bible says or the historical contexts you mention.

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:57 pm

simonov wrote:
Bill wrote:So if your reason for studying the Bible at length was to disprove it... While proof of the scriptures certainly has to be taken by faith, I would contend all other plausable explainations require more faith.
My reason for studying it is because I believe all literate Westerners should be familiar with it.

This opinion, apparently, is not shared by most American Christians, who for the most part remain completely clueless about what the Bible says or the historical contexts you mention.

Sadly, I can't argue with you there.

Post by **Taco** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm

Anywho... WIKIPEDIA

Post by **Hikin_Jim** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:53 pm

DamOTclese wrote:
Hikin_Jim wrote:(there are no demigods in Christianity)
Ah, HJ, you might some day read some of the early versions of the Christian mythologies, including the so-called "Infant" books that were voted out by Nicean councils.

lol. Yeah, you can do a lot of wheel spinning worrying about which books should be included and which should not. I'm not too worried about it because the books that are "in" are the central books, in particular the four accounts of Jesus' life (i.e. the "gospels").

The real issue is perhaps said best by a quote from Jesus himself: "My sheep hear my voice." When one reads the accounts, either there's that indefinable something that speaks to the soul or there is not. If Jesus doesn't resonate for someone, then no amount of books will ever change their mind.

Post by **Taco** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:32 am

DamOTclese wrote:
TacoDelRio wrote:Anywho... WIKIPEDIA
Get cracking on the project, Taco, and let us know how it turns out! To me, I'm going to leave the thinking to those who do it better than I. It's a worth while project, but to be really good a lot of work, thought, and effort has to go in despite WikiPedia's growing reputation for poor quality. It just seems like gathering bits and pieces of history and background to provide a good summary of the San Gabriels seems like a whole lot of work, harder than slinging a shovel during the Summer.

I am WAY too lazy to do that.

JMunaretto · Post by **JMunaretto** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:56 am

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/history_online.html

http://www.fsx.org/history.html

"Reference is made to the letter received from Mr. William E. Bovard, of the Falcon Aviation, Inc. of El Monte on March 13, 1964, concerning his proposal to dispose of cow manure from the local dairies through the medium of air drops on the Angeles National Forest.

We have investigated this situation and find that this by-product is produced by the local dairies in such prodigious quantities that it is veritably comparable to the Mt. Vesuvius lava flows which destroyed the Roman cities of Pompei and Herculatum in ancient times. In fact, one could say that the task confronting Hercules in cleaning out the Aegean stables pales into insignificance when compared to the magnitude of the disposal problem confronting the local dairy industry."

LOL

Post by **Taco** » Tue May 18, 2010 5:15 pm

OK, so my IP is no longer a "trouble maker" or whatever was stated when I first tried to sign up. I'm gonna start improving some pages.

Better yet, F that. How about we just pick each one apart on here. Augie and Ze are big Iron Mountain dudes, so if you guys have any info that should be added, I'll put it in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mount ... es_County)

Etc etc etc

I will start editing tonight.

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Wed May 19, 2010 10:06 pm

TacoDelRio wrote:
DamOTclese wrote:
TacoDelRio wrote:Anywho... WIKIPEDIA
Get cracking on the project, Taco, and let us know how it turns out! To me, I'm going to leave the thinking to those who do it better than I. It's a worth while project, but to be really good a lot of work, thought, and effort has to go in despite WikiPedia's growing reputation for poor quality. It just seems like gathering bits and pieces of history and background to provide a good summary of the San Gabriels seems like a whole lot of work, harder than slinging a shovel during the Summer.
I am WAY too lazy to do that.

Is this damn DamOTclese poster blocked out for certain posters or something? I only see his/her responses in people's quotes, and his/her posts are witty enough that, by golly, I feel left out. What gives?

simonov · Post by **simonov** » Thu May 20, 2010 8:22 am

Layne Cantrell wrote:Is this damn DamOTclese poster blocked out for certain posters or something? I only see his/her responses in people's quotes, and his/her posts are witty enough that, by golly, I feel left out. What gives?

When he left he deleted all his posts. All that remains of his posts are the portions quoted by others.

Layne Cantrell · Post by **Layne Cantrell** » Thu May 20, 2010 4:25 pm

simonov wrote:
Layne Cantrell wrote:Is this damn DamOTclese poster blocked out for certain posters or something? I only see his/her responses in people's quotes, and his/her posts are witty enough that, by golly, I feel left out. What gives?
When he left he deleted all his posts. All that remains of his posts are the portions quoted by others.

Yeah I didn't realize the above were from 2008. Is he the "to hell with this" guy who stormed off a little while ago? Anyone know why? He seemed like a good resource just by himself.

Post by **Taco** » Fri May 21, 2010 1:31 am

I don't know.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NotSoOldHippy